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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge
AppPkg... An improved RoxApp or AppDir.
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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
Posts: 5016
Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 01:41    Post subject:  AppPkg... An improved RoxApp or AppDir.
Subject description: Apps. in a folder, with a popup menu. Shared and local libraries, and no union FS needed.
 

AppPkg is compatible with RoxApp or AppDir as they are called. AppPkg is capable of many apps. inside it, a popup menu supports this.
AppPkg and RoxApp don`t use a union FS, so they will work with any Linux install type ( full ). But they also work in a union O.S. ( Puppy ).
Puppy`s SFS files are unioned, so there`s possible library conflicts ( and other files ) not easily resolved. AppPkg and RoxApp don`t have this.

Rox site: http://roscidus.com/desktop/AppDirs Puppy`s Wikkahttp://puppylinux.org/wikka/ROXApplicationDirectory
Or disciple`s thread: http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26975&sid=77eac897fc89f6d6f85f89ff361d6bc4

The app. Squash files inside the AppPkg folder are separate from each other so it`s easy to copy them to another AppPkg and combine them.
AppPkg uses std. system shared libs., shared libs. inside AppPkg, and libs. unique to each app. inside the apps. Squash file. Eliminating conflicts.

The AppPkg builder includes the .AppPkg-Menu ( IF there`s more than 1 exec.) and makes a .AppPkg.mnu file for all the exec. files in the AppPkg.
IF AppPkg has only one exec. file, AppRun runs it. IF the AppPkg has more than 1 exec. file in it, AppRun runs AppPkg-Menu which lists the execs.

My GUI builder will automate all of this. Select an app. from Ubuntu`s repository, the builder gets all the needed files and builds an AppPkg.
2 parts to this, the builder I`ve had working, but AppPkg has evolved and is nearly finalized, so the builder is changing with it of course.
The downloader part is nearly complete and with help I`ll add download from the Slackware repository to it. How hard that will be I don`t know.

### Several things still needed:
1: A "Main App. Popup Menu" to supplement the system`s menu ( they`re usually full...) that lists all the AppPkg app`s. execs. in one place.
2: Get Xfe and other file browsers to do as Rox does: "click to run" the AppRun file, and also show the .DirIcon for the AppPkg folder.
3: It would be nice if you could run the AppPkg folder from CLI. If this is made to work then it can be used with the file browsers.

# Edit: Update of AppPkg layout, moved AppPkg specific files inside the hidden dir.: /.AppPkg

# Here`s the file layout of AppPkg:
Quote:

/(AppPkg) _______________ ### Main AppPkg folder.
... AppRun _________________ # RoxApp`s "click folder to run app.".
... .DirIcon ________________ # Icon for the RoxApp/AppPkg folder.
... /.AppPkg/icon ___________ # Icon files folder for system menu.
... /.AppPkg/desktop ________ # .desktop files folder for sys. menu.
... /.AppPkg/(app).sq ________ # App`s. Squash file.
... /.AppPkg/(app).app _______ # App`s. Squash file mount folder.
... /.AppPkg/(app).lib.sq _____ # AppPkg shared libraries Squash file.
... /.AppPkg/lib _____________ # AppPkg shared libs. mount folder.
... /.AppPkg/0 ______________# Mount/unmount, set paths, make links.
... /.AppPkg/hook __________ # Run and exit file for app`s. execs.
... /.AppPkg/AppPkg-Menu ___ # AppPkg menu exec. for multiple apps.
... /.AppPkg/AppPkg.mnu ____ # AppPkg menu file. (Menu):(Exec.):(Icon)

# I`ll update this thread as I get further along with AppPkg.

# Here`s a screenshot of the AppPkg menu for a combined Xfe and Fox suites of apps.
They are a natural for combining as they both use the Fox tool kit`s X library, so they share the library thus saving space.
000_AppPkg-Menu.png
 Description   ###_ And don`t you just love the wallpaper? _###
 Filesize   307.02 KB
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000_AppPkg-Menu.png


Last edited by sunburnt on Fri 26 Oct 2012, 02:42; edited 5 times in total
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 05:02    Post subject:  

Thanks for this thread. Very interesting and
I hope that many participate and help you test it.

Me being as noob as I am. I will wait until others
have tested it. But Did I spot a typo mistake there?

look here

"Here`s a screenshot of the AppPkg menu for a combined Xfe and Fox suites of apps."

that maybe should be Rox instead of Fox. They are RoxApps so they are Rox
and not Fox?

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
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Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 05:13    Post subject:  

No, it`s the Fox Tool Kit that both use for the GUI kit.

If you notice the "Calculator_fox.AppPkg" in the Rox-Filer listing.
It`s the same calculator that`s in the Xfe-Fox.AppPkg, part of the Fox suite.
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 06:48    Post subject:  

Oh sorry I thought it where a simple typo. Typical that I did not notice
that there exists something named Fox.

So back to your topic. How could someone not getting how to do this
try it out? Would usb frugal install be a good thing?

Which Puppy would be easiest to use? Lupu or Slacko
or what?

what next to do? after I made such an install. What can I download
or do manually to get a feeling of how it works?

obviously I stood start here

Rox site: http://roscidus.com/desktop/AppDirs Puppy`s Wikkahttp://puppylinux.org/wikka/ROXApplicationDirectory
Or disciple`s thread: http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=26975&sid=77eac897fc89f6d6f85f89ff361d6bc4

I need to understand what you write here

"### Several things needed:
1: A "Main App. Popup Menu" to supplement the system`s menu ( they`re usually full...) that lists all the AppPkg app`s. execs. in one place.
2: Get Xfe and other file browsers to do as Rox does: "click to run" the AppRun file, and also show the .DirIcon for the AppPkg folder.
3: It would be nice if you could run the AppPkg folder from CLI. If this is made to work then it can be used with the file browsers. "

So why do I need Xfe when Puppy already have Rox installed?
I don' get that part.

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Last edited by nooby on Thu 18 Oct 2012, 07:26; edited 1 time in total
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 07:09    Post subject:  

What you write here
http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=656570&sid=2345c7a1ad0cbaf1677ba37c8fc0e48c#656570

should also be posted here in this thread?

But if AppDir has existed since 2008 what made it not
part of Puppy like SFS has been. I mean if AppDir work
as practical as Disciple and you report on here?

Does it take more space or what makes it less attractive
for the others?

Edit

As an absolute noob I spot these differences to using
Seaside's most simplified SFS-exec instead of AppDirs

AppDirs use the .tar.gz way of distribution instead of .sfs

You need to manually untar each such appdir and place
it in the right place. While using Seaside SFS-exec you
only need to place the .sfs in a dir named SFSfiles
which for a noob is much easier.

I spent months to learn how to untar and still can not do it properly.

Sof if you find some way to do that in a reliable way that a noob can get?

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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 13:07    Post subject:  

Hi, sunburnt.

As i do understand this by now, the apps could run from every location, because everything needed to run is in the apps directory, right?

Before coming to the point let me short hijack this thread. I don't know if anyoune has noticed the LazY Puppy SFS P.L.U.S. and its options in detail, so let me explain.

If i do a right-click on an sfs -no matter where the sfs is stored- I can choose to make a RunScript from its containing .desktop files. The RunScript is stored in /root in a specified directory. The .desktop file is copied into the running system and its "Exec="-entry is replaced by the RunScript. So, after creating a RunScript I can run every application from the sfs just by using the menu entry.

The menu entry executes the RunScript which will load the sfs automatically (including dependent sfs files ---> Lazarus loads the devx f.e.) and then running the application.

My thought on this here is to create a RunScript-Builder which makes RunScripts from the AppPkg-Applications. This way one could run and use the AppPkg-Applications the usual way, by menu or desktop-button (drag and drop the .desktop file or the RunScript onto the desktop).

Could I get one working AppPkg to do some work on this, please? Smile

Thanks

RSH

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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1111
Location: England

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 13:56    Post subject:  

Hi RSH,

You are referred back to:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=659163&sid=d47824c6915f4ec6e8574f2362adc9fd#659163

More courtesy and less hijacking. Please.

I'm sure we all wish you and sunburnt well with your "alternative" endeavours; however, there seems little doubt that seaside finished the sfs race with 1st, 2nd and 3rd places some eighteen months ago.

My regards
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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 18:15    Post subject:  

Jasper wrote:
Hi RSH,

You are referred back to:

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=659163&sid=d47824c6915f4ec6e8574f2362adc9fd#659163

More courtesy and less hijacking. Please.

I'm sure we all wish you and sunburnt well with your "alternative" endeavours; however, there seems little doubt that seaside finished the sfs race with 1st, 2nd and 3rd places some eighteen months ago.

My regards

Hi Jasper.

I don't understand what you mean. Which race of the sfs race. A race surely is something where everyone starts at the same time and at the same point. Also every "racer" knows, he is currently in a race. And it is accepted by every "racer" that each one of them will try to finish the race as the "winner".

Nothing of all this is the case here.

And: more courtesy?

What does that mean?

You look at my post in a way like it's been done in a rude way?

I can't see that.

---

My SFS P.L.U.S. does the same thing as seaside's sfs-exec does ---> result is to run applications from sfs. Seasides application does need to have the sfs directory opened, so one can do a right-click on it; my SFS P.L.U.S. is completely different and surely a lot more comfortable. You would know this if you would have read my post carefully and maybe twice?

It's been now the second time that you did come to me and my posts in a way like that ---> (to speak clear): posting bullshit!

I don't like this your way very much! Exclamation

And do you know what?

... ....!

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RSH


Joined: 05 Sep 2011
Posts: 2420
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu 18 Oct 2012, 19:48    Post subject:  

@ Jasper again (sorry sunburnt, but I have to get this guy well informed)

SFS P.L.U.S.

- isn't only one script or one application
- is a collection of tools
- converts downloaded .pet files (from quickpet) to sfs immediately ---> right after the download is finished
- converts .pet to .sfs ---> also in batch mode (1 sfs for each .pet)
- tells the sfs which dependent sfs must be used (each one can have a list of several dependent sfs; dependent sfs can have also dependent sfs files which will be loaded as well)
- loads all needed sfs files (PYTHON, JAVA, DEVX OR WHAT ELSE YOU CAN IMAGINE) automatically before running the application
- downloads the sfs automatically from LazY Puppy Repo at smokey01.com if it wasn't found at the local system (hd,usb)

RUNS CURRENTLY 408 APPLICATIONS IN MY LazY Puppy SYSTEM WITHOUT THE NEED TO INSTALL ANY APPLICATION OR TO USE A SAVE FILE ---> JUST BY CLICKING ITS MENU ENTRY AND/OR ITS DESKTOP BUTTON. NO MATTER WHERE THE SFS IS STORED (ROOT DIR OR PUPPY SUB DIR) AND HOW THE BOOT DIRECTORY IS NAMED (SDA1, SDD2 ... ...).



One can do a right-click on a .jpg (.png, .bmp ...) image, choose the gimp 2.6.12 and then the following will happen:

- tries to run gimp
- tries to load the sfs if not already loaded
- downloads the gimp sfs from the web if it wasn't found
- loads the sfs if successfully downloaded
- runs the gimp
- opens the image in gimp

Any questions? Is SFS-Exec able to do such things? NO!

But as i stated before: I can't see any race on that. And i do not have a look at SFS PLUS and SFS-Exec in a way as if they were opponents or competitors. My wish was just to have to discovered the SFS-Exec-Thread much much earlier. Could have save me a lot of work and investigations.

Also:

LazY Puppy 2.0.2 Final Build 0.0.2 is used -BECAUSE OF IT SFS P.L.U.S.- as basic operating system for a PhyTech Puppy in Germany at the Realschule Lemgo. A German Teacher uses the LazY Puppy PhyTech-Version to teach his School-Kids in CAD and stuff like that (i just don't know the right terms for else area of use)

This German teacher has started a project to get and build his own PhyTech Puppy in March 2009 (the thread then starts, his work began one year before this) and worked on it for several years, using puppy 431 (de?). Because of LazY Puppy and its SFS PLUS (which is based on a suggestion from this German teacher) he quits his efford on the 431 PhyTech Puppy and changed to use the LazY Puppy.

With success. It runs on every machine which he intends to use. I think this is not too bad (in success) for a newbie in linux and bash (like me one still is).

So, please Jasper: If you don't have to report more constructive stuff, better leave me alone. I have to fix now the GUI part of SFS to PET Converter 0.4.

Thank you.

RSH

---

I'm still interested to get a working AppPkg, sunburnt. Smile

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sunburnt


Joined: 08 Jun 2005
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Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct 2012, 01:56    Post subject:  

Sorry about the delay, I`ve made some last minute changes to AppPkg.

I`ve tried to upload an AppPkg and this site won`t do it.
The file`s 5.7 MB, it should not be a problem.

I look at the "Allowed Extensions and Sizes" and it says: 0 MB ?!?!?!

I`ll ask some one what the heck is going on... Rolling Eyes
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct 2012, 04:47    Post subject:  

Talk to Smokey he has his own server that you can use.
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Last edited by nooby on Wed 24 Oct 2012, 06:25; edited 1 time in total
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666philb


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Posts: 1663
Location: wales

PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct 2012, 05:42    Post subject:  

hi sunburnt. 2mb is the filesize limit at murga
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1111
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct 2012, 10:41    Post subject:  

Hi sunburnt,

I don't have a problem with sfs files.

For you and those that do have problems with sfs files even in this very thread RSH wrote:

" I have to fix now the GUI part of SFS to PET Converter 0.4."

Of course there were other forum members who had given us working sfs2pet converters before RSH joined the forum.

What is wrong with sfs2pet converters that work?

Elsewhere, sunburnt, you wrote:
"A union causes more problems than it solves, and uses resources.
So then SFS files are part of the problem. There`s better methods... "

and also:

"This [this what] looks almost exactly like what I was working on about a year ago.
By the time I had it [which it] filled out so it did everything needed [what was everthing that was needed] it was complex."

In what way was it too complex - as with a sledgehammer to crack a nut?

My regards
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nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
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Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct 2012, 12:01    Post subject:  

If you want to debate it then start a new thread.
this thread is for AppPkg... An improved RoxApp or AppDir.

To try it out and give feedback that help to develop it further
or to fix bugs.

Not for polemic fights or flame wars. so go start your own thread!

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sunburnt


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Location: Arizona, U.S.A.

PostPosted: Wed 24 Oct 2012, 12:24    Post subject:  

Thanks nooby; I`ll see if I can find Smokey.

Thanks 666philb; I seem to recall it was 6 MB years ago. Oh well...

Jasper; Don`t know your problem, don`t want to know either...
# Note: Seaside is a very nice guy, I`ve talked with him for years here.
He`s never seemed like the type to chase folks around the Puppy forum.

RSH`s setup appears to be similar to seaside`s in that they both use unioned Squash files ( sfs ).
My AppPkg setup is quite different from unioned sfs Squash files.
No race as Jasper suggests, they`re just different and that`s all.
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