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Does Puppy allow manual internet connection (wired) setup?
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zeiz

Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sun 14 Oct 2012, 22:39    Post subject:  

Beautiful! Greengeek, what kind of machine it is?

Well in meantime I tried: wary5.3, pUPnGO412, pulp_03, puppy3.01. All clean, all extracted with Linux's Archive Manager, all lowcase, correct names.
All of them "not found" their respective .sfs files. pulp_03 "not found" pup_412.sfs though expected pup_412pulp.sfs. Tried to rename but didn't help.
With pupngo I tried to copy "invisible" file also to ext2 partition - no luck.
With puppy301 I copied the file into /boot i.e next to vmlinuz and initrd.gz. No luck.

Finally I installed 2.17.1 and thought it's enough for now. However it is not.
The internet connection lasts for just a few minutes. Maybe SeaMonkey is too heavy? I decided to download Dillo. And...I couldn't wget 261K! The download starts with high speed and then crashes down to 0. No more connection unless reboot. After reboot connection lasts for few minutes: enough to ping router, google.com, open Google, Distrowatch...then stop.
But if download - just few seconds and stop.
One session it stated again for a minute but then stopped completely.
In that session I pinged: 80% loss, 50%, 31%, 0%, 50%,62%...just crazy.
It looks like my router just heavily disrespect Puppy... like some people indeed disrespect puppies Laughing
So... I've never seen something like this. Ok, dead is dead, I understand, that happens but start (after reboot!), then "notice puppy" and shut down the connection?... Shocked
Overheating? No, it's uncovered and it's not hot, usually it could be hotter,
Anyway other apps run fine.
But windows is welcome: I used to live it on for hours, downloads up to 40 minutes - no problem....damn!
If I had "winrouter" I would complain 3 year ago: 90% time I work in Lunux...
Dunno what to think.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2607
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 02:41    Post subject:  

Hi zeiz, It is a Toshiba TE2100 laptop. I used to use lots of the smaller, older laptops (mostly Toshiba) but I got very mixed results when trying different puppies, so I stick with this machine now.

Do you have access to a machine which you could boot from a live cd? I feel like there must be something wrong with the basic setup of the files on your thinkpad HDD. I think it should be working something like this:

Fit Thinkpad HDD to another machine which has a CD drive.
Boot 2.17 from live CD and at the boot prompt enter puppy pfix=ram
Run Gparted and check that the Thinkpad HDD is formatted the way you want.
Run the puppy universal installer (choose frugal), but don't choose the "keep mbr" setting - instead choose the syslinux "mbr.bin" option.
Run the Grub installer to the Thinkpad HDD

Is that the method you are using?

If you don't want to use the universal installer you can just make a folder on the HDD called pup217 (or something) and put the 3 puppy files into it. Then run Grub installer and make sure the folder names etc are correct. I would recommend leaving all the program .sfs files off at the moment till you get the basic files and grub setup ok.

Quote:
With puppy301 I copied the file into /boot i.e next to vmlinuz and initrd.gz. No luck.
Those files should not be in the /boot folder for a frugal install. Just in their own folder (whatever name you choose...). The /boot folder is where the grub folder should be.
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zeiz

Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:10    Post subject:  

Tecra TE2100? Oh, this is 4-th generation after my retiree Smile)
I used to have Thinkpads Smile My first was TP 380 but I sold (overseas) it in 1 year with good profit. Then I got TP i1452 with Celeron366, 64Mb ram and 4Gb hdd. This one served me up to 2008! I believe I upgraded memory to 256Mb and I'm sure I ran XP on it with full Office2003, adobe CS and bunch of other soft. Unfortunately I lost it (also overseas) so my first profit has returned to God Smile
This TP 560E wasn't mine as I wrote but I remember what money did it costs when I was buying TP 380. While looking inside it's just amazing how much money they did that time on such a primitive aggregate...
I mostly work with desktops and they are mine: I used to buy only first one then I opened it and then I only buy parts so for the same money I have 3 times better hardware Wink

Well in details I did the following:
Assuming I already pulled hdd, plug it in desktop machine, zeroed everything (and mbr) with zap63 (just in case) and dd (I used PartedMagic), partitioned and formated ext2 and swap partitions. First partition for win98 I formated with "format c: /s" using old win95 CD (it appear as A:\>), copied win98SE installation files to a folder on c:, replug to laptop boot to dos prompt and installed win98. Having win98 I got access to network and then transferred files from another laptop with crossover cable. Since another laptop got working wireless I finally setup networking to connect with regular cat5 cable to network and access the second laptop filled with files.
Then I did:
1. Copied (from grub4dos) grub.exe and menu.lst to C:\
2. Edited C:\config.sys (empty by default) to look like this:
Code:
[menu]
menuitem=WINDOWS, Windows98
menuitem=GRUB, Puppy Linux
menudefault=WINDOWS,10
menucolor=7,0

[GRUB]
install=grub.exe

[WINDOWS]

3. Copied vmlinuz and initrd.gz to /boot (or /boot/try when tried various versions)
4. Copied both pup_xxxx.sfs and zdrv_xxx.sfs to root C:\
(here as I wrote I tried to place pup_xxxx.sfs also to /boot/try together with vmlinuz and initrd.gz)
5. Edited menu.lst to look like this:
Code:
color white/dark-gray yellow/black
timeout=5
default=0
title Puppy Linux 217 full install on hda2
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 PMEDIA=idehd
boot
title Puppy Linux 217 frugal on hda1
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEIDA=idehd PDEV1=hda1 psubdir=boot
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/initrd.gz
boot
title Puppy Linux CurrentTry frugal on hda1
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/try/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEIDA=atahd PDEV1=hda1 psubdir=boot/try
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/try/initrd.gz
boot
title Default Windows
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
boot

For "tries" I tried pmedia=idehd and atahd - no difference noted.
This menu.lst I corrected also in e3 during boot because notepad.exe placed too many extra dots/periods, I just deleted them.
That's it about frugal install.

To make full install on hdd I booted frugal install and ran universal installer pointing to hda2(ext2).
When asked about grub I chose
a) "update" when installing 214x and then picked the line to edit C:\menu.lst
b) "install" (no "update" option in 2.17.1) when installing 2.17.1 (2.17 didn't boot) to install it on mbr so I do have now grub1 installed on mbr and it's files in (hd0,1)/boot/grub (including its menu.lst).
I should mention here that during grub setup the installer made a backup of windows mbr that is handy. Windows was detected correctly so I only edited timeout (30 sec to 5) and "DOS" by default to "Window98".
No booting problem with 2.14xT10 and 2.17.1 installations.

When I just started playing with Puppy I did perhaps what you wrote:
I installed Wary5.3 (full install on ext2) to that hdd and replugged it to the laptop. The result was as expected: no boot because hardware is quite different. So I wiped everything with exemption of /boot/grub/*
That time knowing nothing about grub4dos I just tried to make my hdd bootable by grub (without windoze) to install then puppy from hdd (from files copied to hdd).
I'm guessing that Puppy live CD always boots to ram so I don't understand "pfix=ram".
The idea to boot having only barebond kernel and initial ram disk is good but diring booting kernel is looking for (and cannot find) pup_xxxx.sfs files, that were available. Would kernel behavior change if there are no such files at all? A assume that the function to find pup_xxx.fsf file and stop if not found is in the kernel and something else should be added to kernel line before boot. Something like "nosfs" Smile
Again: grub's job is to boot kernel then it's done. If grub cannot find something is sends "Error 15: not found" in plain white on black.
What I see on screen is "extracting/unlzmaing...ok, booting kernel... installing drivers to access hdd (green OK) and then suddenly infamous "not found" in red. It's not grub. It's either kernel or more likely the installer.
Some tweaky switches could exist to ride a kernel or/and the installer but I don't know them as I don't know where kernel or installer is looking for .sfs files. In howtos I was told that they must be in root (frugal install) and the universal installer (full install) is asking for the files location. Perhaps Puppy version also matters.

I could try with syslinux mbr.bin but since it's "big deal" (I also can loose win98+office97+other soft) I'd like to ask what actually the advantage is of using syslinux's mbr.bin since as I know the syslinux is used to boot usb not hdd?

PS. I just tried pulp_003 again with all 3 files in c:\boot\try
Code:
..uncompressing Linux ... OK
Booting kernel.
Loading kernel drivers needed to access disk drives...    done (green)
Searching for Puppy files in computer disk drives... pup_412.sfs not found. Dropping to initial-ramdisk console...(red)
/bin/sh: can't access tty: job control turned off
#

Indeed there is no such file but pup_412pulp.sfs instead. Let's try to rename... no luck. Let's try to move renamed file to root...no luck. Let's try to rename the file back in root...no luck. That's it.
Nonetheless I have 2.17.1 frugal and full install and they work great except networking. As I wrote the issue is incredibly weird at least I've never seen that ever. Perhaps it somehow connected with damn old bios. Probably I'll buy the battery for $30 (with no beer for a month Smile)
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2607
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:33    Post subject:  

zeiz wrote:
I'm guessing that Puppy live CD always boots to ram so I don't understand "pfix=ram".
Yes, puppy boots from CD to ram, but the ram files will be altered if there is any puppy savefile available. If you set pfix=ram at boot time, the ram files will remain "pure" as they were on the CD. (If you have no savefiles anywhere you don't need pfix=ram but I find it is a good precaution to use it initially because otherwise puppy is smart enough to find the files on other devices other than your HDD - like if a usb stick was left plugged in - even though the machine may not be capable of usb boot the savefile still affects the puppy behaviour)

Quote:
I could try with syslinux mbr.bin but since it's "big deal" (I also can loose win98+office97+other soft) I'd like to ask what actually the advantage is of using syslinux's mbr.bin since as I know the syslinux is used to boot usb not hdd?
I think you should ignore my advice because you know more than I do Smile
I don't use dual booting with both Win and puppy, so my methods won't be much use I'm afraid. Sorry I didn't realise you were keeping the Win98.

All I can suggest is to boot a different laptop from a live CD of puppy 2.17 and see if it seems compatible with your router. (The problem could still be to do with the dhcpcd version in that puppy...). Once you get acceptable performance on 2.17 you can have confidence in it and maybe copy some files from that computer back to the TP. (and I guess use the xircom in the other bootable laptop too, so that it is all proven compatible).

Last edited by greengeek on Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:55; edited 1 time in total
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2607
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 14:52    Post subject:  

Quote:
The idea to boot having only barebond kernel and initial ram disk is good but diring booting kernel is looking for (and cannot find) pup_xxxx.sfs files, that were available. Would kernel behavior change if there are no such files at all?
The pup_xxx.sfs is a very important file, and it has to be exactly where the initrd.gz expects it to be (or where you tell the initrd.gz to find it...). I believe that the "psubdir=xxx" parameter is important here. However, I can't offer helpful advice because the "pupmode" you are using seems different to what I have used. (Pupmode refers to what device is storing the pup files, where the savefile is, whether to run in ram etc etc etc - there are forum topics that clarify this).
The main thing is that you cannot run without the pup_xxx.sfs - it must have exactly the right name, and be in exactly the right place, then magic - it will boot ok.
I hope some of the other pup users will recognise the method of dual booting you are using and be able to clarify where to put the pup_xxx.sfs and what to put in the menu.lst.
(also - each pup_xxx.sfs only works with it's own version of vmlinuz and initrd.gz - although the names are identical the contents are different. You already know that I guess)
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zeiz

Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 21:43    Post subject:  

I got finally what I wanted at the beginning: typical dual boot Win98-Puppy with dedicated ext2 and swap partitions.
However I still have "frugal" install in \boot on win98 partition and sfs files (save included) in root of c:
Is it possible that save file on fat16 will affect behavior of full puppy on ext2 partition?
I'm in doubts because that install runs from hdd having full filesystem on hdd like any other regular distro but who knows, it's a puppy...
On the other hand I got an idea to make another frugal install: this time on ext2 partition with 2.17.1 and boot it with grub1 newly installed! I took a look again at your pictures and it would be similar to your setup.
Perhaps I could manage to install newer versions that "not found" on fat16 partition now and get finally online?

greengeek wrote:
use the xircom in the other bootable laptop too, so that it is all proven compatible).

Too bad but it's impossible right now: Dell D800 has only 1 pcmcia slot so it's narrow but xircom card designed thick to hold RJ45 so it takes space of both slots in TP (only lower is engaged). It will not fit into Dell's. My wife's laptop has no pcmcia Sad
Anyway thank you for the tip: I'll try it if I have a chance to borrow suitable laptop.

I keep win98 because of 2 reasons: first is that it has pure dos (shift-f5 at boot) and there is a folder in root called "bios". So if I'd have a chance to spot the battery somewhere I gonna grab it immediately and update my damn old bios Laughing
The second reason is a kind of nostalgia: it was win98SE (with Access97) when I made my first db application for a business that I started overseas with a lady who is now my wife and mother of my 2 beautiful boys.
However if I'd manage to update the bios I'd probably drop emotions and upgrade to W2K Laughing

Thank you again: I'll try the frugal install on ext2 right now.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 2997
Location: Everybody knows this is nowhere...

PostPosted: Mon 15 Oct 2012, 21:59    Post subject:  

zeiz, I did a look around for you -- here is the download spot for your laptop's latest BIOS.

http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/tais/support/jsp/downloadDetail.jsp?soid=496767&pf=true

You will need a functioning floppy drive and functioning floppy disk for this. I either don't know or can't remember your location, but if you're in the States, I can make the disk for you and send it to you. It's small so I can send it free of charge (normally I ask people to pay postage, but for this... not necessary at all).

Good luck!

_________________
Loving X-Slacko 2.1!
Custom Build: HP MOCA-AR + Core2Duo T7200 + 4gb RAM + 256gb SSD
...just needs a pretty case Wink
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zeiz

Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Tue 16 Oct 2012, 14:04    Post subject:  

Starhawk,
Thank you very much, I do appreciate your kindness.
But it's not me but Greengeek who owns Toshiba Tecra TE2100.
I'm struggling with IBM ThinkPad 560E (no floppy, no cdrom, no usb) and I do have its latest bios but the problem is that IBM flash utility for this model fails to flash without fully charged battery. My battery obviously is long dead.
So I'm waiting for a chance to borrow the battery or to emulate it with another electronic device.
Many thanks again.

Greengeek,
I'd like to thank you once again for the pictures. I believe I clearly understand now this puppy property as well as your design. So I'll move forward this way too. I also finally realized what does "frugal" install mean.
Since I have already grub1 on mbr and its files on /boot/grub (like on your pictures) I can boot whatever (win98 included).
I tried to boot puppy3.01 from ext2 and it boots! (no luck from fat16).
However I forgot pup_save.2fs from 2.17 in fat16 root that messed things up like you exactly predicted Laughing
I'm trying now wary5.3 again and I got "not found" again. It means I have to step down to earlier version till it will boot.
Thanks for your help.
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Fri 26 Oct 2012, 02:12    Post subject: Does Puppy allow manual internet connection (wired) setup?  

Hi zeis,

I run Wary Puppy. While it is designed for older systems, (I run Wary on a 1999 Pentium 3, 500 mhz cpu, 384 mb ram) it is a modern operating system and needs a minimum of 256 mb of ram to run decently.

Quote:
I'm trying now wary5.3 again and I got "not found" again. It means I have to step down to earlier version till it will boot.


The "not found" message is misleading. It has nothing to do with the sfs package going missing or being in the wrong location as one might be tempted to think. Very simply, it is because you do not have enough ram... so, the boot-up cannot proceed.

With 80 mb ram on your system, Puppy 2x is likely the version that you will have to stick with to achieve success here.

I hope this clarifies things somewhat,

Monsie

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cthisbear

Joined: 29 Jan 2006
Posts: 3442
Location: Sydney Australia

PostPosted: Fri 26 Oct 2012, 20:56    Post subject:  

" so, the boot-up cannot proceed. "

SFS not found.

::::::

All puppies from about Puppy 2.1 could cheat the ram issue
by copying the main >>>> sfs file to the hard drive.

Cd boots >>> looks for files >>>

>> boots from the hard drive file ....instead of cd.

What i call a cheat frugal.

So this may be your answer....copy any Puppy that
you want to try to the hard drive...sfs file only.

I have done this on a few machines...as a test...
even things like Teenpup etc.

including an old Compaq....dodgy drive
and 64 mbs of ram.

Chris
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2607
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat 27 Oct 2012, 03:54    Post subject:  

cthisbear wrote:
All puppies from about Puppy 2.1 could cheat the ram issue
by copying the main >>>> sfs file to the hard drive.
Cd boots >>> looks for files >>>
>> boots from the hard drive file ....instead of cd.
What i call a cheat frugal.

Excellent idea. I'm going to try that on some of my older ram-skinny hardware.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2607
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov 2012, 05:14    Post subject:  

zeiz wrote:
The idea to boot having only barebond kernel and initial ram disk is good but diring booting kernel is looking for (and cannot find) pup_xxxx.sfs files, that were available. ....... but I don't know them as I don't know where kernel or installer is looking for .sfs files. In howtos I was told that they must be in root (frugal install) and the universal installer (full install) is asking for the files location. Perhaps Puppy version also matters.

Hi zeiz, I think you are right that the version of Puppy determines where the main sfs file should be put. Recent puppies expect to find the sfs inside the frugal subfolder, but older puppies (ie the lightweight ones around version 2.xx) expect the sfs to be in the root (or "top directory") of the drive. see here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=1598&start=50
Might be worth putting the sfs in more than one place to make sure the boot is successful Smile
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Bruce B


Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 11130
Location: The Peoples Republic of California

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov 2012, 09:26    Post subject:  

zeiz wrote:
~


Notepad.exe also makes bad line endings. These are invisible but can cause bizzare problems.

To fix the bad line endings you can use the command line tool, dos2unix.

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2607
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov 2012, 13:31    Post subject:  

zeiz wrote:
Edited menu.lst to look like this:
Code:
color white/dark-gray yellow/black
timeout=5
default=0
title Puppy Linux 217 full install on hda2
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/hda2 PMEDIA=idehd
boot
title Puppy Linux 217 frugal on hda1
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEIDA=idehd PDEV1=hda1 psubdir=boot
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/initrd.gz
boot
title Puppy Linux CurrentTry frugal on hda1
kernel (hd0,0)/boot/try/vmlinuz root=/dev/ram0 PMEIDA=atahd PDEV1=hda1 psubdir=boot/try
initrd (hd0,0)/boot/try/initrd.gz
boot
title Default Windows
rootnoverify (hd0,0)
chainloader +1
boot

I don't know if it makes any difference but I just noticed that you have spelt PMEDIA incorrectly in two places as "PMEIDA"
.
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