Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager

For talk and support relating specifically to Puppy derivatives
Message
Author
User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

#1701 Post by sickgut »

nooby wrote:Thanks Sickgut!
"Nooby would be in heaven and whip out his endless supply
of leet bootcodes, and i mean that in the most honest sincere way
as well..... seriously, " ...

They are not really my cheat codes I just "borrow" them from two other guys.

forgot name but something D4P or similar user name. He and the other fellow
had some 145 linux distros on external USB harddisk and they described it
on their homepages and I suddenly out of accident tested to simplify the code
by testing word for word to see what did happen and one version of my
cheat actually booted and I found several Ubuntu variations that also booted

but then I got too cocky and bragged about it on Ubuntu forum and
most likely they realized my cheat could be used for to be almost as root
and they hate such so they changed something internally and only those
Ubuntu iso that is from 2011 or 2010 will work and not all of them either
but a handful.

So good luck with your experiments. I would test out what Rokytnji suggest
anti and his buddy has done something very good with AntiX so if
the Ubuntu thing fails for you give AntiX a try.
you dont give yourself enough credit nooby, even if you just followed instructions from 2 other guys, you still improved upon it in a way that they couldnt do themselves. Also if you think that what you did isnt to be credited to you then no one in the puppy dev community deserves any credit either because they all use puppy that was made first by barryk. Just because someone did alot of what you do first doesnt mean your not an expert or that your knowledge isnt superior to the people doing it prior to you.

i personally think you should be like the official puppy to GRUB consultation officer or something.

cinclus_cinclus
Posts: 68
Joined: Sun 22 Feb 2009, 10:00

#1702 Post by cinclus_cinclus »

rokytnji wrote: Don't know if you wanna learn a new dance.

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live ... -t3746.htm
Wrong link! Must be:

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live ... t3746.html

rokytnji
Posts: 2262
Joined: Tue 20 Jan 2009, 15:54

#1703 Post by rokytnji »

cinclus_cinclus wrote:
rokytnji wrote: Don't know if you wanna learn a new dance.

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live ... -t3746.htm
Wrong link! Must be:

http://antix.freeforums.org/making-live ... t3746.html
Must have been the 666 thingy in my post. Fixed it. Thanks.

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

#1704 Post by sickgut »

Update:

still in limbo, the debian live squeeze is too old, and debian live wheezy doesnt work well yet. I am considering all the options, pussy will live, pussy will catch fish from the sky and birds from the ocean, just coz pussy is that good. When the new breed of pussy is done it will be so intelligent that pussy him/ herself will automatically frame your enemies for unlikely crimes and free pizza will constantly be delivered to your door 24/ 7. Pussy will rule the world, but right now pussy is finding the best 1337 base he can.

i heard that pussy was looking into ubuntu and or maybe a distro apt-get upgrade of the current pussy using its current live system but the rest upgraded to wheezy. I have not told pussy about antix yet but pussy will continue to be both sweet and awesome some time soon.

Ill post again soon when pussy and i have found a decent base OS live system for his soul to be transfered to.

in the meantime, i would like to thank everyone for their support for more than a year now.

rokytnji
Posts: 2262
Joined: Tue 20 Jan 2009, 15:54

#1705 Post by rokytnji »

I have not told pussy about antix yet
This is a Testing Base Iso 64bit AntiX 12.5 alpha 2 install running JWM at the moment. Slim login screen uses F1 key to toggle between Fluxbox and JWM with or without rox desktop.

Just showing you maybe shortcuts for building Pussy. For a no X option hardcore Pussy build. Go for the core iso which has apt-get and ceni for network connection and mc (mindnight commander) file manager. I have done core iso installs also using xdm as login manager and fluxbox with lxpanels for toolbars.

Anyhows. Just to show what JWM in base iso comes with (just a little taste). Wallpaper is a Photo shot sent to me by a Linux buddy in Australia of the solar eclipse recently.
Attachments
jwm1-thumb.jpg
(24.02 KiB) Downloaded 991 times
jwm-thumb.jpg
(28.33 KiB) Downloaded 981 times

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

#1706 Post by sickgut »

Update on the new base for Pussy:

Ubuntu 12.04 is a LTS edition, meaning that it will be kept upto date for 5 years, thats nearly 4 and a half more years.

I dont know exactly what that means. Does it mean that only security updates are provided or does it mean that any new package that is submitted to Ubuntu for release in its repos is retro fitted to this aswell?

This may be asking stupid questions that i can google easily, but im just spitting at the moment, typing whatever is on my mind and thinking out loud about a few things and to show the ppl who use Pussy the things im actually considering.

There is a minimal remix of Ubuntu that is 187MB in an ISO, and the casper-rw live system it uses seems to function the same way as debian squeeze/ current Pussy as you just have a casper-rw file instead of a live-rw file. I really think some distros just change the names of things just because they can.

Altho this may sound promising, it has been confirmed by Ubuntu that their next release will not be a Live system or atleast a Live system with persistence. This is a major step back, they have also said their OS is so damn bloated that its no longer going to be CDROM sized. However, if we run with this LTS edition, there will be support available to users 'till the 4.5 more years runs out and thats an OK thing.

This gives us 4.5 more years of using the old school casper-rw (live-rw in disguise basically). And anything on earth and i mean anything at all you can possibly imagine is much better than dealing with mostly silent or rtfm bot devs on the debian live support channel.

The functioning OS with the 187MB ISO does seem promising enough, i estimate we could reduce that further to about 120MB or so with my slimming techniques. However this give you nothing at all, this the barest of bare console only OS. This is about 40% larger and i bet uses more RAM than the Debian Live Squeeze base that Pussy has now.

I am considering the 12.04 LTS base rather than the 12.10 as the LTS means we can be up and running and remain relevant for 4.5 years.

Ubuntu uses bigmem PAE kernels for its 32 bit varieties and so there is no disadvantage there.

Ubuntu has been my arch enemy for many years (8.04 was about the last good distro they had) and it makes me feel dirty and i mean rocking back and forth naked in the shower crying kind of dirty to even consider using an Ubuntu base.

This is about the most corporate Linux you can get, there is non free firmware in the kernel, there are probably backdoors in every second line of code and if there was ever going to be an active linux virus it will be written for Ubuntu and because its high profile, popular distros that use it as a base come under scrutiny. I kinda hope Pussy doesnt get popular while using Ubuntu as a base, it gets ugly because all of a sudden you cant get away with all the "grey" areas of copyright stuff and including non free codecs i your standard install. This is why Ubuntu cant play an mp3 out the box without an update and why Win98 can. Win98 can play a mp3 with no mods because the codec is included in the price, Ubuntu is free, no one pays jack and so the company supplying the codec will become irate.

Its so depressing to think that Windows 98 from 14 years ago does more stuff out the box than the current Ubuntu. There is also the line from the the Ubuntu devs that haunts me: "Ubuntu is becoming something OTHER than Linux" meaning the plan is to become incompatible with everything else and so if you get in the Ubuntu trap, no doubt you will have to pay to do stuff that should be free, just like Windows and Mac.

Im doing some more research but it seems the Ubuntu is the best option in an evil world.

Also i am looking at making Pussy able to access as much free media content as possible. All the WebTV and web radio stuff will be there and be free. I couldnt do this in the current squeeze base, everything needed a newer kernel and it was impossible to even compile the apps needed on squeeze and the squeeze repo doesnt have any good apps for this or the apps need to be run as a normal user rather than root and just crash with no output to tell you whats wrong. Owning Pussy and a internet connection should be just as good as having digital radio, cable TV, satelite TV and do everything else like that.

OK peeps ill check back when work has started.

Bob_the_plumber
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed 08 Aug 2012, 13:43

#1707 Post by Bob_the_plumber »

Well but.. if you use ubuntu you will lose your soul

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

#1708 Post by sickgut »

Bob_the_plumber wrote:Well but.. if you use ubuntu you will lose your soul
today at 12:40pm, i infact did loose my soul.

Been messing with the Ubuntu 12.04 mini remix iso. Everything seems to work ok andi reduced the 187mb iso to 155mb, still too big (this is just a skeleton) and managed to get the casper-rw persistence working.

However, i was curious about a Configuring network..... error
and an additional Waiting for up to 60 seconds to configure network.....

And a little searching revealed this is a known bug and there is no solution yet. You can remove all of the autodetecton network stuff and use nano and ifup and ifdown etc to assign ip's manually tho....

So, this is what i expected with Ubuntu. There is a pause that lasts for more than 2 minutes, the computer is doing nothing and its a known bug with the solution being "remove the network stuff". There is no other fix. This is just how it is, the OS seems like it would load reasonably quickly and then just stops for 2 minutes.

well its par for the course im afraid.

The absolute stupidity of Ubuntu and Debian Live Wheezy simply amazes me. I really thought that i had seen it all but obviously i had not.

Seriously considering if i should go the CentOS route or even slackware. They both have package management similar to apt-get altho the "yum" in CentOS is so damn complicated its like a step back. I havent used slackware to know how good their package management is, i only know that it exists. CentOS would give us immediate street cred for server stuff and slackware would get the attention of the ultra geeks that are twice as obese and have even less of a social life as me.

im not even disappointed. I knew Ubuntu can and could not ever be as easy as simple setting it up and using it how its supposed to be done and 100% of the time its 100% buggy and is completely worthless for absolutely every use other than to confuse Linux users and increase the sales of Windows and Mac and Android pc/ devices and or cause users to become so annoyed that they use pen and paper rather than a computer and play games on a PS3 or Xbox.

nooby
Posts: 10369
Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#1709 Post by nooby »

Don't take the following serious. How did this guy named Penk from Thailand
set up his xpud OS? He uses ubuntu as the base and get persistence going
and most likely he is root too? Just me guessing. I did a frugal install and
it works good.

He is on to other projects now but maybe one can still download
enough of his work to get how he did that?

http://www.xpud.org/
http://code.google.com/p/xpud/
Source Code - http://github.com/penk/mkxpud

grub4os menu.lst entry Sadly I am too laxy to check it out
but one or two of the following should work. They are for different iso

title xPUD 0.9.2
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/bzImage noisapnp lang=en screen=1024x786 initrd=driver.opt,codecs.opt,apps.opt
initrd /opt/core


title xPUD 0.9.2 boots with persist
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/bzImage isofrom=/xpud-0.9.2.iso noisapnp lang=en screen=1024x786 initrd=driver.opt initrd=codecs.opt initrd=apps.opt
initrd /opt/core


title xPUD latest xpud-10272010.iso boots with persist ? uses Chrome
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/bzImage isofrom=/xpud-10272010.iso noisapnp lang=en screen=1024x786
initrd /opt/core


title xPUD latest? xpud-10272010.iso
root=hd(0,1)
kernel /boot/bzImage noisapnp lang=en initrd=driver.opt,codecs.opt,apps.opt screen=1024x786
initrd /opt/core

There is a forum but almost none uses it.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

User avatar
Xtanova
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat 06 Oct 2012, 13:20
Location: Egypt

#1710 Post by Xtanova »

Hi sickgut

Sorry about your frustration with Debian wheezy .. for my assumption if Debian performance is getting to be unreliable, no wonder if users will move to other distros than Debian and Ubuntu like Mageia.

Forgive me for my random wondering ..I'm just a newbie .. but why LMDE 201204 is non of your choices..It has casper like ubuntu, and if I'm not mistaken it can be added to grub2 menu.

Code: Select all

menuentry "Linux Mint Debian (LMDE) 64-bit" {
#linux /casper/vmlinuz rootfstype=vfat boot=live live-media-path=/casper quiet splash --
linux /casper/vmlinuz boot=live live-media-path=/casper quiet splash --
initrd /casper/initrd.lz
casper rw persistence can be added after boot.

There is a Dev got inspired already by Puppy and AntiX, and made a stripped version of LMDE: http://www.swiftlinux.org/
Target Markets

Windows users, especially Windows XP users
Ubuntu 10.04 LTS users
Linux Mint users with computers that just barely meet hardware requirements
Puppy Linux users who want a larger software repository for the more specialized applications available
antiX Linux users who want better hardware/codec support for things like watching DVDs
Users of forensic/recovery live CDs

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

#1711 Post by sickgut »

Xtanova wrote:Hi sickgut

Sorry about your frustration with Debian wheezy .. for my assumption if Debian performance is getting to be unreliable, no wonder if users will move to other distros than Debian and Ubuntu like Mageia.

Forgive me for my random wondering ..I'm just a newbie .. but why LMDE 201204 is non of your choices..It has casper like ubuntu, and if I'm not mistaken it can be added to grub2 menu.

Code: Select all

menuentry "Linux Mint Debian (LMDE) 64-bit" {
#linux /casper/vmlinuz rootfstype=vfat boot=live live-media-path=/casper quiet splash --
linux /casper/vmlinuz boot=live live-media-path=/casper quiet splash --
initrd /casper/initrd.lz
casper rw persistence can be added after boot.

There is a Dev got inspired already by Puppy and AntiX, and made a stripped version of LMDE: http://www.swiftlinux.org/
Target Markets

Windows users, especially Windows XP users
Ubuntu 10.04 LTS users
Linux Mint users with computers that just barely meet hardware requirements
Puppy Linux users who want a larger software repository for the more specialized applications available
antiX Linux users who want better hardware/codec support for things like watching DVDs
Users of forensic/recovery live CDs
the only way to make an OS how i want it to be is start with the absolute barest essentials. Starting with Linux Mint would mean i would need to strip everything out till its a 80mb or so shell and then start again.

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

#1712 Post by sickgut »

At present im still waiting for the persistence to be introduced to Debian Live Wheezy. i may have been overly critical of the Debian Live ppl as wheezy isnt actually the stable flagship yet, its still a "testing" release.

I figured i would go ahead with Wheezy because we could add the compressed save file method from Pussy to this, but there is a limitation, if you use it for a while more and more adds up in the live/cow dir and this is not dumped to the hdd and the ram cleared. Even if you have a swapfile, the RAM gets all used up, unless there is an actual live-rw persistence in real time. Even when you do create and or update a compressed save file in Pussy, it still doesnt flush the live/cow that lives in RAM and has a copy of everything that has been written to the virtual "filesystem".

Then i took a look at Ubuntu and the 12.10 edition, while not a LTS does actually work but there is a terrible price to pay. Wheezy boots and uses 50mb of RAM, Ubuntu 12.10 boots and uses 160mb of RAM. Wheezy only uses 20mb or so more RAM than Squeeze did, but Ubuntu is such a hog that the battle has been lost before its even begun.

There is a pic on the website showing Pussy using only 42mb of ram while running all the xorg and server stuff..... if we use Wheezy this may be 62mb, if we use Ubuntu, this will be more like 200mb.

So basically I am waiting for the Live Persistence problem to be solved in Wheezy and to use Wheezy as the base.

the debian live team assure me that it will be solved soon and that the new system will also have backwards compatibility with the old live-rw system. The live-rw system will be used instead of the newer persistence.conf setup that is too fiddly. Once this persistence prob is solved in Wheezy, we are back to business as usual.

in the mean time im just waiting. Best to do something properly rather than start using Ubuntu as a base and then start again when wheezy is fixed.
Last edited by sickgut on Fri 30 Nov 2012, 11:06, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

#1713 Post by sickgut »

i think i will adopt the following slogan as gospel for Pussy development:

"Its best to do something properly than to use Ubuntu".

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

#1714 Post by sickgut »

double post, plz remove

User avatar
darkcity
Posts: 2534
Joined: Sun 23 May 2010, 19:16
Location: near here
Contact:

#1715 Post by darkcity »

Some people are saying Ubuntu 12.10 is a security risk because it sends anything you type into the dash search to a Canonical server (by default).

User avatar
david_katelansky
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri 18 Dec 2009, 04:34
Location: Margate, FL
Contact:

...and it's easy to install on a hard drive

#1716 Post by david_katelansky »

I followed the advice on http://pussycatforest.info and it was really easy installing Pussy Linux to my hard drive. I already had Legacy OS4 installed on my hard drive, so I booted up Legacy OS4 and

(1) created an ext2 partition on my hard drive

on a Windows system
(2) downloaded pussy-xtra-beta-preview2.iso
(3) downloaded http://www.thepussycatforest.info/windo ... .9.0.7.exe
(4) used the installer from step (3) to install the iso from step (2) to a usb flash drive (used an old one - just 1 GByte).

went back to the Legacy OS4 system and
(5) copied the flash drive from step (4) to the partition from step (1)
dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/dev/sda4 bs = 4096
(6) Edited the GRUB menu list, /boot/grub/Menu.lst
and added this entry

title Pussy Linux
rootnoverify (hd0, 3)
chainloader +1
boot


...and that's all it took. I now have Pussy Linux installed to my hard drive. It booted right up, and everything still ran.

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

#1717 Post by sickgut »

darkcity wrote:Some people are saying Ubuntu 12.10 is a security risk because it sends anything you type into the dash search to a Canonical server (by default).
wouldnt surprize me.

Ubuntu is tryng to be as corporate as possible and to become something "other" than linux.

There are a few things similar to this. You cant take things for what they appear to be. Think the worst and it will generally be true and still things will pop up and be discovered that will blow your mind even more.

No doubt these aspiring corporate wannabes will gather funding however they can, legal, semi-legal and covert.

Take TOR for instance. It claims to offer users protection and security by bouncing your information from lots of proxies. The only problem is that everything you do is being tracked by TOR and everything you send and receive is tracked. TOR really exists for the purpose of blackmailing people with money who may be looking at banned/ blocked/ socially unacceptable material. You only need to blackmail one rich guy and the whole thing is worth it.
That being said, if your poor they will probably leave you alone.

And so, im waiting to do this properly with a "more" "trusted" debian OS. Hopefully wheezy live system will be working soon. Wheezy is worth the wait. I cant believe i was actually considering Ubuntu.

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

Re: ...and it's easy to install on a hard drive

#1718 Post by sickgut »

david_katelansky wrote:I followed the advice on http://pussycatforest.info and it was really easy installing Pussy Linux to my hard drive. I already had Legacy OS4 installed on my hard drive, so I booted up Legacy OS4 and

(1) created an ext2 partition on my hard drive

on a Windows system
(2) downloaded pussy-xtra-beta-preview2.iso
(3) downloaded http://www.thepussycatforest.info/windo ... .9.0.7.exe
(4) used the installer from step (3) to install the iso from step (2) to a usb flash drive (used an old one - just 1 GByte).

went back to the Legacy OS4 system and
(5) copied the flash drive from step (4) to the partition from step (1)
dd if=/dev/sdb1 of=/dev/sda4 bs = 4096
(6) Edited the GRUB menu list, /boot/grub/Menu.lst
and added this entry

title Pussy Linux
rootnoverify (hd0, 3)
chainloader +1
boot


...and that's all it took. I now have Pussy Linux installed to my hard drive. It booted right up, and everything still ran.
Nice!
You should find that the compressed save file method will work fine, look for it in the catroll-panel.

good to see that HDD Pussy is able to be done. its not that it cant be done, its just that it scares newbies to do that technical stuff and to be honest, yes, you can bone your Windows and make it not boot if you get it wrong. However, running Pussy as a single OS is easy, just dd the .img verison to your HDD and boom, it will work.

i would like to hear any feed back you would like to provide.
Pussy in the form you are using is now a year old since its last update.

new Pussy will begin soon, as soon as debian live wheezy is working with its live saving system and things like the RoxFiler focus bug will be fixed. Pretty much everything will be fixed that is a known bug, but possibly the newbie level HDD install with dual booting with windows will remain something to chase for.

in the meantime, i will market Pussy as a Live distro made for USB sticks and Live DVD/ CD and for single OS HDD install.

Nice to see people wanting to use Pussy

nancy reagan
Posts: 544
Joined: Thu 22 Jan 2009, 14:20

another apt-get test iso

#1719 Post by nancy reagan »

Though I barely understand what you tweakers are talking about I thought it might be interesting to point you to the apt-get precise test iso, in -however French- forum ?


http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=82708

User avatar
sickgut
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue 23 Mar 2010, 19:11
Location: Tasmania, Australia in the mountains.
Contact:

Re: another apt-get test iso

#1720 Post by sickgut »

nancy reagan wrote:Though I barely understand what you tweakers are talking about I thought it might be interesting to point you to the apt-get precise test iso, in -however French- forum ?


http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=82708
i made a apt-get addon package for puppy lucid (puppy 5.0) and it doesnt work properly, yes it works but on with applications that do not expect to use anything specific to the apt-get repo distributions (ubuntu or debian) kernel. If you apt-get vlc for instance, you end up with a non bootable system as it expects the debian or ubuntu kernel to be there but these apt-get puppies are compiled with the puppy kernel that is stripped as bare as possible and is ultimately incompatible with any major distros repository. Note that it only takes one program installed from the debian or ubuntu repos that has in it a script that overwrites a puppy specific script and you have an unbootable system. However, xaos and nano and small programs like this work ok if installed with apt-get.

this fail on my part is what spawned Pussy Linux. You need the your OS to have the same kernel as the applications you are installing via apt-get expect you to have.

im not saying its not a useful feature for a puppy OS to have, im saying its not a 100% solution and i am aiming for 100% :)

Post Reply