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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
'lina-lite - version 005
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elroy


Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Wed 28 Nov 2012, 23:22    Post subject: Re: Standalone lina-lite-003  

Marv wrote:


It really made life simpler having it separate with xfce moving from 4.80 to 4.10 and all the expected speedbumps. Once the xfce is settled down AND we're all more used to it, I like having it in the main sfs, but precious little else. I'm going to do a bit of theme pruning and then use the standalone as my daily.

Thanks for supporting the lite sandbox for the tinkers.

Well, to be honest the reason I did lite is due to a bit of selfishness. This is what I would have wanted in a puppy distro, and that's why I pursued it. I honestly didn't expect that there would be any interest in it, It's encouraging to know that others feel as I do about lite. It's what I use for my daily, too.

If in the future if I move it to the main sfs, I could remove all of the themes 'cept for one.
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rg66


Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 452
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada / Entebbe, Uganda Africa!?!

PostPosted: Fri 30 Nov 2012, 00:32    Post subject:  

Removed Pidgin and deps (gnutls, farsight). Restarted X, thunar takes 20 -30 sec to open. Played around a bit and it seems gnutls is causing issues when uninstalled.

Edit: gnutls and gvfs-smb share some libs, at least libgcrypt and libgpg-error. It seems that uninstalling gnutls leaves gvfs-smb without those giving me the slow thunar issues I had when using the Carolina gvfs-smb which was also missing those libs. I will assume that uninstalling gvfs-smb will also cause gnutls issues.

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Carolina X-precise/X-slacko
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elroy


Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Mon 03 Dec 2012, 21:47    Post subject:  

Currently working on the lina-lite-004 prototype. If you have any suggestions I'd appreciate hearing from you.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4767
Location: GB

PostPosted: Tue 04 Dec 2012, 05:03    Post subject:  

This is turning out to be a cracking release, el., and very popular amongst the natives.
Might it be possible to reduce the footprint even more as there is still some duplication between the standard Puppy menu entries and the Xfce control panel which is comprehensive? Maybe that might make it non-Puppy?! In which case, you really have inadvertently created a new project? May be able to squeeze in an opening text (text is 'cheap') panel (e.g. click here to get a basic browser? click here to d/l basic apps from the PPM? what else would help neophytes?) with some explanations and guidance, along with that misty wolfy-tree-thing wallpaper which is somewhat more welcoming? Sorry not able to offer tech. suggestions, only the user viewpoint. Recalling (again) that one of our greatest physicists/mathematicians felt that elegance of an LCD solution should be expressible in a single-line. Maybe it was Dirac? Probably the birth of the K.I.S.S. principle. Surely must apply to coding?
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1388

PostPosted: Tue 04 Dec 2012, 08:08    Post subject:  

Hi elroy,
lina-lite is aimed at "seasoned" users but I think the following would be nice.
After establishing a connection for first time (fist run or later) an app similar to "default apps" is coming up, but the drop down list for each category has the apps and (backend) links to the relevant pets in the repo.
Just the basic apps. Browsers, editors, movie- and music-players, document- and image-viewers and *maybe* business("office") apps and "utilities".
I would think that the PPM/adrive builder infrastructure can be used and the app just needs to make the calls. The fact that lina is using a single repo should make life easier.
Is probably too much since people that download it know what lina is, but still a nice addition to an "apps-free" pupplet.

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Kids all over the world go around with an XO laptop. They deserve one puppy (or many) too Very Happy
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4767
Location: GB

PostPosted: Tue 04 Dec 2012, 12:08    Post subject:  

Quote:
the following would be nice

Yeah - either way, same general idea. Hope el. can make something of it without too much trouble.
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sheldonisaac

Joined: 21 Jun 2009
Posts: 386
Location: Philadelphia, PA

PostPosted: Tue 04 Dec 2012, 14:10    Post subject:  

(portions snipped)
mavrothal wrote:
Hi elroy,
lina-lite is aimed at "seasoned" users but I think the following would be nice.
Is probably too much since people that download it know what lina is, but still a nice addition to an "apps-free" pupplet.

I'm new to 'lina-lite, and downloaded it because it was a distro with only the very basics.
I'm by no means a dev or expert; don't know why it has an adrive and a zdrive. don't intend to do compiling, etc

I've been primarily a user of Lucid Puppy 5.2.8. Am in it at the moment.

About all I can do is "install" a pet or an sfs.

So far I've added the Opera 12.02 sfs.

Many thanks,
Sheldon

=========

Oops: booted lina-lite, see that I'd installed nano editor, as well as Pmusic and related stuff like streamripper, ffmpeg, etc
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elroy


Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012, 00:57    Post subject:  

Some interesting suggestions, gentlemen. There's definitely some food for thought. And I certainly do appreciate the input.

I'm going to take my time before releasing the next version as there are many things to consider. So far the only for sure thing I'm certain of is that xfce will be moved to the puppy_lina_xxx.sfs. That way it'll boot to the desktop with an empty or missing adrive.
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Marv


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 291
Location: SW Wisconsin

PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012, 14:46    Post subject: 'lina-lite-004  

Agreed elroy, let it cook for a while. 003 is pretty stable and moving xfce into the main SFS pretty much consensus. Maybe a list of proposed insies and outsies run up the flagpole? IF you want to.

Thinking about the proposals for a puppy package manager front end at firstrun, my first impulse was to just put a launcher to the manager itself on the destkop at firstrun but on second thought the number of choices and package names might overwhelm a first-timer so a simplified frontend maybe. I'm lousy at dialog boxes. Anybody game?

My 'just the basics' standalone SFS now weighs in at 63.6Mb, my 'chubby' at 89Mb. Both seem happy, as am I. Very Happy

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tweaked 412 based boxpup, well honed 'lina-lite-005, alphaOS 321 Wink , X-precise-2.3, Lxpup 14.03, and not to forget trusty Carolina/Carolite. All lean and steady pups.
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elroy


Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 374

PostPosted: Thu 06 Dec 2012, 19:36    Post subject: Re: 'lina-lite-004  

Marv wrote:
Agreed elroy, let it cook for a while. 003 is pretty stable and moving xfce into the main SFS pretty much consensus. Maybe a list of proposed insies and outsies run up the flagpole? IF you want to.

Thinking about the proposals for a puppy package manager front end at firstrun, my first impulse was to just put a launcher to the manager itself on the destkop at firstrun but on second thought the number of choices and package names might overwhelm a first-timer so a simplified frontend maybe. I'm lousy at dialog boxes. Anybody game?

My 'just the basics' standalone SFS now weighs in at 63.6Mb, my 'chubby' at 89Mb. Both seem happy, as am I. Very Happy

I'm proficient enough at creating dialogs to pull that part of it off, but I need input as to the selections offered for choices and the overall format - the "grand vision". That and any woof included apps that may be desired to be removable...I'm open to suggestion. I'm all for the democratic process concerning such matters. It's more valuable if it's usable to others than just something that is usable in my mind.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4767
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec 2012, 05:12    Post subject:  

Quote:
I'm open to suggestion

Well it won't be popular amongst the tiny group of gurus that frequent these columns, but as a user, I don't like all this adrive, .sfs and other devices used to separate bits and pieces. It won't sell. I guarantee that amongst the great unwashed. Make it simple. What you offer needs to be complete at boot up with textual guidance on-screen, a PPM, essentially of .pets, and a control panel OR, not and, menu for making it (subjectively, of course) look good. We already know you guys are extremely adept in your art, now the real skill is in making easy. Think old ladies, politicians and posers - it's difficult enough to teach them to switch the bl**dy thing on! We had a PM who admitted he didn't know where the ON swicth was located. Developers need to grasp the enormity of the mindset required to pacify allegedly intelligent folks if they don't immediately see those accursed four coloured squares on the screen.
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rg66


Joined: 23 Jul 2012
Posts: 452
Location: Vancouver, BC Canada / Entebbe, Uganda Africa!?!

PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec 2012, 06:01    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
Quote:
I'm open to suggestion

Well it won't be popular amongst the tiny group of gurus that frequent these columns, but as a user, I don't like all this adrive, .sfs and other devices used to separate bits and pieces. It won't sell. I guarantee that amongst the great unwashed. Make it simple. What you offer needs to be complete at boot up with textual guidance on-screen, a PPM, essentially of .pets, and a control panel OR, not and, menu for making it (subjectively, of course) look good. We already know you guys are extremely adept in your art, now the real skill is in making easy. Think old ladies, politicians and posers - it's difficult enough to teach them to switch the bl**dy thing on! We had a PM who admitted he didn't know where the ON swicth was located. Developers need to grasp the enormity of the mindset required to pacify allegedly intelligent folks if they don't immediately see those accursed four coloured squares on the screen.


If you do a remaster (not a custom build) you will have only 1 sfs to load, adrive, zdrive, puppy sfs all in 1. You can also clean up the menu and control panel to your liking and it will show in your new "build".

This is the lite thread, for people who know what they are doing or like me, think they know Wink or want to learn (the hard way). "Making it simple" would be better for the full Carolina aimed at a more mainstream crowd.

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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4767
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec 2012, 08:31    Post subject:  

Sorry rg, I completely disagree. You have failed to understand the reality of world + dog. El. asked for opinions - I speak for users. As I clearly state, here and elsewhere, guys like you will always be able to set things up and make them work. For years/decades, Linux was an ivory tower OS, in which the cognoscenti spoke to each other but no-one else. Maybe that's what it takes. But all that is now over (at least in public Fora - what you say to each other via PMs is your affair). Real folks are grateful for all the pain and sorrow you suffered. But are you now offering a viable product for general edification? Yes - I think so. And the Puppy genre is a prime example. Plug it in, spin it up and go. If there are further hurdles, forget it - at least for Joe Public. If it's intended as a toy to expand your IT intellect for experts like yourself, then why not keep as a private distribution? That's how BK differentiates Woof from his distro releases. Fiddle-faddling with a - z notional drives and .xfy files ain't on most peoples to-do list. We need the gurus desperately so we can get on reading the latest strategies for beating the coronavirus, watch pictures of Mercury and listening to wwoz from the Big Easy, without all the IT stuff to worry about.
[Other non-IT folks feel free to fill in your own selections.]
Otherwise, if this distro is intended as a closed-circle plaything, be my guest; just distribute amongst yourselves and enjoy.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1388

PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec 2012, 15:07    Post subject:  

Sage wrote:
I completely disagree

Sage,
you have bare-bones lina-lite, you have Saluki with a good range of apps and you have Carolina with the kitchen sink.
Each one fills a different purpose/needs.
Why none of them suits your needs and why lina-lite is the most appropriate to be modified toward the direction you (the userS) would like?

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Kids all over the world go around with an XO laptop. They deserve one puppy (or many) too Very Happy
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4767
Location: GB

PostPosted: Fri 07 Dec 2012, 17:09    Post subject:  

Don't take it personally, Mavro. As I see it the most likely candidate I can persuade users to, errr, use, is the one with the smallest download size and the quickest into an opening display, with maybe a few textual guides to customise. Tiny and SliTaz meets some of those criteria, Puppy met/can meet more for the expenditure a little bit extra resource and effort. Furthermore, I am primarily interested in saving landfill/recycling and using, in this instance yours rather than my, intellect to reduce, retrofit and remove the rat-race to oblivion. [Don't worry, I am far more active and vociferous in my own professional areas!]

This Puppy, these Puppies, are proving formidable vehicles for achieving the great percentage of ordinary folks' needs and aspirations as far as IT is concerned. Why do you wish, erroneously, to infer something about my needs. I am old, I stand outside the IT field, I meet and influence the decisions of a vast array of busy folks trying to use this technology to advance their own causes. I see the big picture - I try to help. I know what I see, I hear what I hear. If you want to erect a slew of additional hurdles for putative user to jump over, forget it. There are always going to be plenty of clever IT guys like you who can twiddle their hypothetical drives whilst blindfolded, hands behind the proverbial. That, I contend, is not the prime directive. One of the best Puppies ever issued was John's MeanPup - did the biz, 50Mb .iso, ran in 64Mb. Carolina-lite at 105Mb is close to emulating that achievement in the contemporary context. Slacko is equally good, if a little larger and the new Wary is also a good basic workhorse. Small is beautiful, less is better - genius comes in the tiniest packages; think Einstein, Dirac, the Hamiltonian, etc.

So, please don't accuse or insinuate unworthy intentions. Umm, someone said "we're all in this together". But he didn't mean it! One should have the greatest respect for BK, el. & micko, inter alia.
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