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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Legacy OS 2 & 4 are you a User? Who am I developing for?
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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1401
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov 2012, 09:48    Post subject:  Legacy OS 2 & 4 are you a User? Who am I developing for?
Subject description: Are real users using Legacy OS
 

Anyone developing a derivative knows the amount of time it takes to create one.
Over the years I have put a lot of my free time in doing so. Over the last few months I've seen very little interest on the forum except from new Users coming over from seeing Legacy OS on Distrowatch. Now that Legacy OS has dropped out of the top 100, interest in the project will be even less. This leaves me with 3 choices: A new release with real improvements to generate interest on Distrowatch moving it back in to the top 100, updates / new Apps for Legacy OS 2 & 4 or stop the project.

Let's take a look at how I see it from my side. With past releases I imagined a User using Legacy OS and tried as my skills improved to give that user the best experience I could. I was always looking for new and better Applications to be included in the ISO CD. Look and Feel was of equal important and one of the main reasons the project started.

Over the years the project has moved to saving old Pentium III’s & 4’s from Landfill and that's where I feel the project is of most use. Take an older release add as many useful Apps plus a Modern Web Browser fine tune it and share it with those who want to use it. Make it as modern looking as possible and add usability in to the mix.

A number of Users miss the point of Legacy OS and want it sitting on say a Puppy 5.2.8 base or something like that. Right now how many Puppy derivatives are doing just that? Lots!

As the Hardware Legacy OS is targeted at doesn't change why should Legacy OS. In Legacy OS 2 the selection of great useful Apps put a lot of other distro’s to shame. Yes they are not the latest and greatest versions available but in a Pentium III environment they run pretty darn well, are still very usable and turn most worthless Pentium III’s in to a very useful tool for a student, poor families or anyone else who can't stand the idea of dumping a still perfectly working computer in to landfill.

As I write this I know there's at least one more release of Legacy OS 2 with updates to Opera and a number of other Apps. Opera 12 with a slimmed down version of QT4 runs surprisingly well in Legacy OS 2. While Opera may be seen as the last choice in an open source world, it is the only HTML5 Web Browser that will run in Legacy OS 2 and I thank the developers of Opera for supporting Linux when other propriety companies don't.
Opera 12 with its included Email client allow Legacy OS 2 Users access to options no Pentium III computer should have.

While I have access to 3 Ghz Pentium 4 computers, my daily driver so to speak is a 667Mhz Pentium III on which all my testing is done. OK I'll admit that it sometimes bogs down with over the top filled web pages, but at the same time its fine with most web pages I throw at it. At work I use an i5 quad core Pentium desktop running Windows 7 and Internet Explorer still drives me crazy while I'm waiting for Web pages to load

Now the question I need to know is just how many of you actually use Legacy OS either version 2 or 4 mini. I will assume that if no body replies then no body is using Legacy OS. It's as simple as that. If you want to see future releases of Legacy OS then have your say now.

Just for the record unlike other forum posts where support for a Derivative hasn't happened and the developer gets frustrated and quits the forum in disgust all angry, this isn't the case with me. I made the decision to start this project and when the time comes I'll make the decision to stop it and do something else.

_________________
Legacy OS 2.1 LTS Released! Install me on a new! EXT2 Partition with 500Mb of swap and I'll be happy. Razz
Legacy OS 4 Released! Install to newer legacy hardware / early EeePC's Very Happy
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oligin10

Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 189
Location: Buckeye State, USA

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov 2012, 15:28    Post subject: Legacy OS$  

Hi John, thanks for asking this question. I had been using Legacy OS4 on my laptop. I also have a desktop, which I run windows on. I have remastered several times, and have finally come up with one that has only what I want. But I gave my laptop to a friend's mother who needed a computer and did not have one available. I put windows xp back on it for her, as I do not know her or live anywhere near her. I also had a spare desktop, which I put my remastered version with no karamba or opera. I gave this old desktop to a neighbor lady who just lost her husband earlier this year. She loves it! It does everything she wants, and is very fast on an old pentium 4 1.8 single core processor. The only problems I found were poor wifi support (fixed with ndiswrapper) and no webcam support. I think if people do not need the webcam support, you can't beat Legacy OS4. Thanks for all your hard work. Rob
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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1401
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov 2012, 18:12    Post subject:  

Hello oligin10,
Thanks for replying. You say you remastered Legacy OS 4 many times what did you add / change and why?
Also what does Legacy OS 4 give you other derivatives don't. What am I doing right... Your thoughts please...

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Legacy OS 2.1 LTS Released! Install me on a new! EXT2 Partition with 500Mb of swap and I'll be happy. Razz
Legacy OS 4 Released! Install to newer legacy hardware / early EeePC's Very Happy
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oligin10

Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 189
Location: Buckeye State, USA

PostPosted: Mon 26 Nov 2012, 19:47    Post subject: My changes  

Hi John, I removed Opera because after using the update feature built into Firefox, it broke Opera. I don't like or use karamba, and just feel the desktop looks better and is easier for people used to windows if I just put regular desktop icons for Web, Mail, Music, Solitaire, Writer, Files. I also fixed the theme switcher (which I posted in one of the topics how to do so). Other than that, that is all I feel is necessary for anyone who is used to windows xp to feel comfortable using this. I make sure to use nice looking icons which are already on the disk, I think. I may have had to add one or two that I like better. The reason I use the generic names is that I try to keep people from using the menu if possible. I know why you include so many apps, and I'm not trying to have you slim Legacy OS 4 down, but I am trying to make it as easy as possible for people to feel comfortable with immediately. I feel this is the easiest way to convert people to Linux, and especially Legacy. The only other things I do is change back to Teen Pup Mini 2010 theme and change the background. I just prefer them, nothing wrong with what is offered. As far as what you are including that others (Puppy based) don't, I honestly think that K3B is just one of the many reasons. Magic Scripts is very nice. Your selection of programs allows me to pick the ones I like and use them. Thanks again, Rob
P.S. The reason I remastered so many times is that once I had made one change, I burnt a remaster. That way if I made a mistake after that, I wouldn't have to start all over.
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sullysat


Joined: 16 Oct 2007
Posts: 364
Location: San Antonio, TX

PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2012, 00:55    Post subject:  

Hey John,

I've been way too busy and way to absent lately, but I saw this post and thought I'd reply.

Legacy OS is one of my go-to distros when I'm rebuilding old machines. I don't use it every day, but I have given away several machines running your distro and I will continue to host it on my Puppy site ( which is way overdue for an update).

So just know that I'm on the list of people who enjoy and appreciate your efforts.

Thanks,
Sully

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johnrpm

Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2012, 15:07    Post subject:  

I am an end user, I have been using lucid most of this year on an ancient laptop, It put the fun back into computers for me, I found that I was booting the ancient laptop and rarely the old laptop with windows and ubuntu installed.
I decided a few weeks ago to delete ubuntu and have a puppy instead, I now have a stack of CD's with lots of pups, I had not tried legacy, I thought it was for really old hardware, must say you have done a good job, I still need to spend some time with it but so far everything seems to work well.
In my quest for my ideal OS, long term support is a factor, no use falling in love with an OS if it is not updated, I am spoilt for choice with puppy, so many good pups.
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nitehawk


Joined: 13 Apr 2008
Posts: 536
Location: West Central Florida

PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2012, 16:28    Post subject:  

I had been using just the old LegacyOS 2010 on my older PIII,...until not too long ago. I switched to the new Wary 5.3 on it,....but it just doesn't have all the bells and whistles that Legacy does, I'm afraid. I just recently added Macpup on my main p4, as well. But I would most definitely be a LegacyOS user again, if a new one comes out!

...and remember about the Distrowatch thing. Every time a lot of newer distros come out,....they always seem to jump to the top of the list, and the ones that are steady, and have been around a while, seem to sink away. For instance,..good distros like Parsix only seem to surface when they come out with a newer one. Then it seems to sink down below the 100 mark with a lot of other good ones.

Now one of the main things I need on my P4 machine, is the 1366x768 display setting. Some of the older Puppies didn't seem to be able to do that (haven't tried Legacy 2010 or newer Legacys on it yet). Wary can do it,..as well as Macpup.

Anyhow,....I'm going in and re-installing Legacy 2010 on my old PIII again right now,...and will get a newer one ASAP. Please don't get discouraged, there are Puppy lovers who love and use your nice distro.
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Puppyt

Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 561
Location: Gatton, Queensland

PostPosted: Tue 27 Nov 2012, 22:33    Post subject:  

Hi John,
I feel you should be justifiably proud of your efforts on the Puppy2 / Puppy4 front - and I know I am on record for stating this in the past. I still run TeenPupMini2010beta on my Toshiba 3480ct (PIII, 600MHz cpu, 192 Mb RAM) and hadn't really seen the need to upgrade to the Legacy series. Running it through the hoops again recently I realised that I really miss not having Frisbee around - could never quite get wifi configured correctly in TPM2010B, with the Toshie's Broadcom43xx pcmcia modem that other Puppy4's like Fluppy and MacPupFoxy 2 didn't have issue with. But you have discussed the wifi side of things plenty of times in the past, and I quite understand your focus of development can't feasibly address all contingencies. Getting around to downloading Legacy 2 and 4 at long-llast to compare with TPM2010B on wifi and other fronts.
My personal interest in pupplets on that old machine tends to be more to the spartan side - I do have performance issues despite everything jumping well OOTB in TPM2010B - and that is testament to your craftwork in application choice and compilation. So I tend to deactivate Karumba - tends to hog the screen space too, on my lappie I feel - and I don't know what sort of overhead drag that KDE might impose on the operation of the Toshie overall. And I appreciate that with your distros - breaking into poor analogies here - you not only include the kitchen sink but also the Italian Granite benchtops, the Gorenje built-in coffee machine, the Meneghini fridge and the Aga wood stove... Ahhhh the luxury! Nonetheless I wonder whether you might consider modularising your Legacy more, so that some applications might be added as an SFS as the user might require, or some seldom-used applications be stripped out at the user's preference, a-la petbegone.I would look forward to a Trinity-based (or SFS for) future Legacies to handle the KDE side of things - but only because I understand that it might be lighter and more efficient than KDE4+ - and not because I have any expertise in that desktop environment. That said, I particularly look forward to Opera12 and QT4 in Legacy that you mentioned in the OP. And with KDE support for my pocket PC's (pc2002 and WM2003), Legacy might well be the only distro that gets the most out of my vintage hardware set.
Proper feedback on Legacy soon,
Cheers!

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john biles


Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 1401
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed 28 Nov 2012, 03:56    Post subject:  

Hello to all replying to this thread,
Please keep posting your thoughts.

I was saving Opera 12 Final with QT4 for the next release of Legacy OS 2.1 but have decided to upload it now to the Repository. You'll also find the Dolphin File Manager (QT3 Version)

To those thinking you'll now be able to install QT4 Apps in Legacy OS 2 this is not the case. It was packaged with Opera 12 and resides in the Opera folder not the normal system folders like /usr/lib It is also a stripped version not containing a full QT4 environment.

On and off over the last few months I've been working on a possible release but now have to decide what direction I want to go. Your words have got me thinking. Please try Opera 12 Final and Dolphin by installing to / and reloading the menu will install in seconds...

Please Note: Not tested in Legacy OS 4 Mini as it comes with Firefox 5 by default and is set to the update channel. Selecting help and version in Firefox will cause it to update to Firefox 16. Easy!

_________________
Legacy OS 2.1 LTS Released! Install me on a new! EXT2 Partition with 500Mb of swap and I'll be happy. Razz
Legacy OS 4 Released! Install to newer legacy hardware / early EeePC's Very Happy
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Eathray

Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Sat 08 Dec 2012, 17:01    Post subject:  

Hey John,

I know you posted this a while back, but in reply, I have about 20 older machines that seem like a good fit for Legacy 2 and 4. A lot going on in life right now, but it's a resale hobby for me that occasionally supplies me with a tank of gas in my Jeep or parts for newer machines. A lot of times we forget to say thanks to all the amazing people in the community like yourself, ttuuxxx, and so many others who make this fun possible.

Legacy remains viable. Don't kill yourself, but keep it coming. I for one will be continuing to use it (I think I've sold two used machines with Legacy OS 2, and plan to try 4 soon on some P4's). It's a worth-while project.

Eathray
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Pelo


Joined: 10 Sep 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Mer méditerrannée (1 kms°)

PostPosted: Fri 21 Dec 2012, 00:32    Post subject: Legacy OS : Update drivers
Subject description: I enjoy this distro
 

I used Teenpup then legacy OS. It's one of my prefered , but i cannot connect Internet on my newest computer (atheros atl1c or atl1e is the driver for ethhernet)
For me it's a very good distro with Kde apps.
Remasterized with Racy 5.3 : I can now surf on the web.

Last edited by Pelo on Thu 19 Sep 2013, 03:30; edited 1 time in total
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dancytron

Joined: 18 Jul 2012
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Fri 21 Dec 2012, 13:30    Post subject:  

I have OS 4 dual boot with Windows 2000 on my Itronix Celeron III 512 Mb of ram laptop. I tried 3 or 4 different puppies on it and OS 4 seemed to run the smoothest, fastest and be readable on the crappy 800x600 screen.

To be honest, the laptop doesn't get used much except with Windows 2000. The main time I use OS 4 is when someone else wants to check email or something (to keep them out of all the personal stuff on my Windows 2000).

I'd concentrate on old hardware, for me at least that seems what it is made for.
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trowsdale

Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 13:50    Post subject:  

Hi all,

I recently wrote about my fondness for Legacy:

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=82359

Yes, still using 4 Mini - and no rush at all to upgrade, this will be very serviceable for a few years on my old laptop.

I'm going to buy a new-ish (not new) PC as well, and will likely use Legacy as the primary O/S on that one too. Why not? I could do SUSE or Mint, but I'm most happy and comfortable with Legacy, and on a newer PC, it will be blazing fast.

So if John wants to keep developing, that's great - but feel free to take a nice long break, I won't be looking for major upgrades for a long while.

Bill
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antneil

Joined: 12 Jan 2013
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan 2013, 09:22    Post subject: Legacy OS2 & OS4
Subject description: Keep Legacy going
 

I use OS2 & 4 and I like them so keep up the small updates now and then. Chrome 12 sounds a good update. I run OS4 & 2 on a 8 year old Celeron 2.4Ghz, IGB memory. The OS's have all the software I need. You're right, there are plenty of distributions for modern PC,s and Legacy is for older PC's which have plenty of life left in them. I can buy Pentium 4's with 500MB memory, 80GB HD and CD drives for only £35 from my local PC shop(inc Windows XP Pro installed).
Don't let Legacy die
All the best.
Ant
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Colonel Panic


Joined: 16 Sep 2006
Posts: 1502

PostPosted: Fri 18 Jan 2013, 13:52    Post subject:  

Hi John. I saw this thread last week and am having a look at Legacy 4 Mini again.

A lot of it works really well and would be a pleasure to use. The only downsides I've seen with it are; 1 / the lack of recognition for ext4, which means you can't save TeenPup Mini to an ext4 partition or read any files which have been saved on one, and 2 / the old version of Abiword (2.6.3) installed by default, which will not open Open Document files properly (though Gnumeric seems fine in this respect);

To be fair. there are workarounds for both these problems; have at least one partition which isn't formatted in ext4, and also save files from LibreOffice in either Word or Excel format instead of Open Office.

Also, this time round the desktop opened with no application icons and all the drive / partition ones stacked on top of one another, though I'm not sure why since it's been fine in the past.

Best,

CP .

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