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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
ArchPup 12.12.2
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simargl
Guest


PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 03:55    Post subject: Re: ArchPup 12.12
Subject description: New version with latest Arch Linux packages
 

ciento wrote:
oops, the iso has not changed size yet... Confused

Actually iso will be 1MB bigger, 800K are static libs and includes from wvstreams. I will
upload new image after fixing some more problems, one is pinstall script inside sfs modules.
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2078
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 11:05    Post subject:  

Hi

I you want to try to stay under 80 Mb, I would transfer geany to the developer's sfs and take beaver (or nothing: you have already the full version of nano in the ISO; leafpad is not really interesting : installed it is about as heavy as beaver but is really only an editor! beaver can more than leafpad).

most users would probably use more daily along the year the browser icon as the editor icon in the task bar Wink

I really miss some application's starter like gexec or grun etc. would be better as console in the task bar as it can be used to start the console. this to avoid unneeded opened little windows on the screen...

you have prepared a link in the menu to «browser» since version 1and it is good so. but you bind it to "firefox" instead to "browser" Laughing . it is not logic! I use GNUIceCat. Other users use Seamonkey as it is the main browser of the most Puppy versions...

pls include didiwiki! it is ridiculous small (UNDER 100 kb!) and permit to produce smart texts (fat, underlined, italic) in small browsers like links, elinks, links2 (inclusing without Xwindows! it can be used as text system in not graphic linux and produces separate text documents each sheet! of course including starting line as deamon in /root/.start !
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simargl
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PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 13:52    Post subject:  

@oui
Quote:
you have prepared a link in the menu to «browser» since version 1and it is good so. but you bind it to "firefox" instead to "browser" Laughing . it is not logic! I use GNUIceCat. Other users use Seamonkey as it is the main browser of the most Puppy versions...

Thanks, you are absolutely right, I forgot about this because my archaps.sfs is always loaded and firefox is my only browser. I fixed this so now Web browser from menu will starts script /usr/bin/web-browser and launch first browser from this list:
    firefox
    chromium
    chromium-browser
    google-chrome
    opera
    arora
    dillo
    epiphany
    midori
    seamonkey
    icecat

If nothing of this is installed (not in $PATH) it will show warning and point to instructions on how to use pacman. Also I added didiwiki, no problem size is only 16kb. Seems like you and me are only users so we'll add what we need Laughing. Will check that editor beaver later.
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oui

Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 2078
Location: near Woof (Germany) :-) Acer Laptop emachines 2 GB RAM AMD64. franco-/germanophone, +/- anglophone

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 16:13    Post subject:  

Thank you very much!

propose Chromium is only a good idea if you also solve the difficulty that chromium refuses to start as "root" Wink . as I don't like it, I did never look what the Puppy's programmers of *.PET's with chromium did do, but it is no so ideal. test it before to include that else you will get endless discussion in the thread Laughing !

kind rgds
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jrb


Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 1036
Location: Smithers, BC, Canada

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 18:11    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
Seems like you and me are only users so we'll add what we need Laughing.
Don't be so sure. I'm sure there are others like me who have tried archpup but are too unfamiliar with archlinux to really do much. Confused

I originally setup a frugal archpup1204. Video and internet worked well out of the box, so I installed rox, seamonkey and jwm with pacman. Didn't get too far with jwm but rox and seamonkey worked well.

I'm now running a frugal archpup1212 to which I've added rox and seamonkey with pacman. I'm learning how to use and modify openbox and tint2 so that's getting better.

I've also copied in pfind and pfilesearch from Slacko14 and they seem to be working fine. What I would like to do is package them as tar.xz's and add them in with pacman so they are registered apps. I like the way pacman updates, very cool.

I like the idea of keeping archpup as a very small core to which apps can be added and updated, but of course that's up to you. It's your baby.

Congratulations on the great work you"ve done so far. Cool

Thanks, J
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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2452
Location: near here

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 20:41    Post subject:  

for me the key is to keep a small core, but have all the tools needed to connect to internet ready out-of-the-box. then people can pacman what they want or use ready-made SFSs. Cool
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smil99

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 174

PostPosted: Fri 28 Dec 2012, 21:46    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
Quote:
Seems like you and me are only users so we'll add what we need
That is not quite true. Wink
Have been using archpup most of the time since I saw it here. My only drawback is not being able to do any printing due to CUPS problems as reported by me on pages 6 and 7 of this thread. I am sure there are many others who are silently using and/or admiring your work only that it is so different from other pups that they have less to contribute. Smile

Cheers.
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012, 01:13    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
Seems like you and me are only users so we'll add what we need


i'm on the team 100%. it's the only distro i use, on all my machines.
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scsijon

Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 1042
Location: the australian mallee

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012, 01:54    Post subject:  

Hi simargl, I like your puppy!

I noticed that the version 1.0 Wayland system is now available on arch and wondered if you had considered building with that instead of X11. It would be the first Wayland for puppy and i'm sure a lot of puppy people would be interested in the result.

A couple.... of urls to consider ...
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Wayland
http://wayland.freedesktop.org/
http://www.chaosreigns.com/wayland/state/
http://dodonov.net/blog/2011/06/11/x-org-wayland-and-all-that-awesome-low-level-stuff/
---------------

On the other hand, not being an openbox person, I can't work out how to set the screen size down to 1024x768 from the 1600x1200 it currently has selfsized it too, good for the card and monitor but useless for my old eyes. Can you assist please with a fix?


regards
scsijon

Last edited by scsijon on Sat 29 Dec 2012, 05:49; edited 1 time in total
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5753
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012, 01:59    Post subject:  

Still experimenting with Archpup here too... Smile
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ciento

Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012, 04:21    Post subject: Re: ArchPup 12.12
Subject description: New version with latest Arch Linux packages
 

simargl wrote:
ciento wrote:
oops, the iso has not changed size yet... Confused

Actually iso will be 1MB bigger, 800K are static libs and includes from wvstreams. I will
upload new image after fixing some more problems, one is pinstall script inside sfs modules.

I followed the wvdial dependancy chain, it seemed quite long,
due to Archpup being skeletal (a good thing, once on the net Very Happy )
Thanks for taking on the project. Each time google shows distro abc
connects to the net using xyz, linux numbers go up.

Same for successful printing, high-end video etc
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simargl
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PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012, 06:32    Post subject:  

I sent mail to distrowatch to add ArchPup on waiting list (thought it would be nice to have page on their site), don't remember the date precisely but it was definitely before 2012-12-26. They didn't respond and in meantime added mateu and mega-linux, one is ubuntu with mate desktop and other is remaster made with suse studio. I don't know about their criteria but know one for sure they will receive no more mails from my side.
@scsijon: For changing resolution https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Xrandr this title 'Adding undetected resolutions'. Seems like wayland only supports qt5 and gtk3, but it's future display server with better 3d support and new standard (one day).
@darkcity: Do you know some terminal based app for wireless connections, Consider me completely useless in this area, Confused users who need wireless find solution, and I will add it, Smile ? Here is some topic on Arch forum https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=43818. This might also be interesting http://doc.slitaz.org/en:guides:wifi-hard
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1615

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012, 17:59    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
Seems like you and me are only users so we'll add what we need


simargl,
I find archpup very interesting as it tries to simplify the puppy sysinit, shutdown and device handling, while running in RAM and maintaining 100% Arch compatibility and full use of pacman.

However, it would be good to decide which way you want it to go (everything is OK, just be clear and consistent).

If you are aiming for a wider base you may want to address some teething problems that must be streamlined/automated and become novice-friendly. These include installation and savefile generation as well as more general issues with hardware/device detection.
Another novice hurdle is the absence of a UI app for pacman/packer. I would think that for a novice that hardly knows which linux app does what, even something rudimentary as PPM is better than the best CLI tool. PacmanXG4 although still in beta is pretty light and not bad at all. Is hard to see why is not in the build.
Finally as another novice-friendly move you may want to consider autoloading archapps.sfs if present (see Saluki/Carolina initrd/init for that).

Another issue (certainly arguable) is that ArchPup does not use any of the gtkdialog-based puppy-specific apps. As a result, on full deployment to get the equivalent of all the little apps that puppy has, it becomes almost as big as Arch linux (minus Gnome, KDE, systemd).
Currently, base plus minimal apps is 160MB. Add some more things (video drivers for example) and you are looking at 250-300MB (compressed, ie ~600MB flat…). At that point the question will be how is it different than an LXDE/Arch spin that runs in RAM.
So you may consider providing some puppy apps/utilities in the apps sfs and thus a complete "puppy" from the start. If the user wants the Arch-proper apps, there is always pacman/packer. These will also add some familiarity to for the Puppy users that you invite through this forum to use ArchPup.

Please do not consider this as "critisism" in any way. Actually I believe that Archpup is an excellent initiative that should not stay "for advanced users only" or users willing to go through several pages of forum posts or instructions. Thus the suggestions.
But as I said before, is your baby!


Re Distrowatch: You need to show some commitment, constancy and progress over some period of time to make it. Be patient.

Re cli connection tools: pns_tool_pup-0.3.pet works OK in ArchPup at my end. Just changed "rxvt" to "urxvt" in the wrapper script.

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toro

Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Sat 29 Dec 2012, 19:44    Post subject:  

jrb wrote:
simargl wrote:
Seems like you and me are only users so we'll add what we need Laughing.
Don't be so sure. I'm sure there are others like me who have tried archpup but are too unfamiliar with archlinux to really do much. Confused
...

I like the idea of keeping archpup as a very small core to which apps can be added and updated, but of course that's up to you. It's your baby.

Congratulations on the great work you"ve done so far. Cool

Thanks, J


Yes, I'm also checking this post semidaily to see if anyone else has resolved the Pwireless issues. I'll be switching over to Archpup as my only OS after I can get the wireless working. I think there is a lot of interest. (And that's just within veteran puppy users.)
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ciento

Joined: 17 Sep 2010
Posts: 180

PostPosted: Sun 30 Dec 2012, 00:19    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
I sent mail to distrowatch to add ArchPup on waiting list

I wouldn't get too bent, send a new mail each month, your progress
and user feedback will speak for themselves. Think of the progress in two months, magnified over two more years Cool
Have a great 2013!
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