Slacko 5.4, UEFI and Windows 8

What works, and doesn't, for you. Be specific, and please include Puppy version.
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nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#21 Post by nooby »

Russ I know less than what you do so I only wild guess.

when Ms came up with UEFI they wanted to make it fool proof
so they would not allow that program for Apple computers to work
and thus one need to have the certified keys and they cost a lot
of money. Thousands of dollars? So maybe Red Hat Linux+
would pay for it and maybe Ubuntu too?

But i doubt that us using small linux would be able to so we have
to use the allowed way to shut it off or whatever it is named.

Would really Microsoft have missed that that program exists?
I trust it only work on Apple computers.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

JustGreg
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Location: Connecticut USA

#22 Post by JustGreg »

Thank you, russodle for the information. I am no expert. In my researching UEFI, I did encountered the rEFIt tool. The MAC-INTEL PC use the old EFI approach and not UEFI. There are differences between the two resulting in the EFI tools not working well. The problem may be in the digital signatures used by UEFI. The digital signatures seem to be controlled by Microsoft. The Electronic Foundation has been waiting on Microsoft to approve/grant the signature certificate that will allow multiple system booting. At this time, it appears to be awaiting game for things to be sorted end. I have one more idea that I am going to try to get information on it from HP before changing the hard drive with legacy boot.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

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Burn_IT
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Location: Tamworth UK

#23 Post by Burn_IT »

All this makes it sound like a good time to stop using Windows altogether.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

nooby
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Location: SwedenEurope

#24 Post by nooby »

Yes but if they have hardware locked the boot sequence then
you most likely will not be able to boot that hardware ever again.
So you would need buy motherboards separate that are promised
to not have this locked BIOS.

think of all people that get a Laptop as a present and then
you tell them to blow away the windows and install linux on it.

that would brick that computer so you could not start it ever again
without maybe having a special Microsoft rescue CD that could
install a locked Win8 on it again.

Sure there are always exceptions but the parents that bought it
did not know their kids would get the suggestion to install linux on it.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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Burn_IT
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#25 Post by Burn_IT »

I was suggesting buying PCs without pre-installed OS.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

nooby
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#26 Post by nooby »

Yes but almost nobody sell these where I live in Sweden.
Maybe they do it where you live but for how long?

some 90% of all computers sold to average household
already have an OS on them. Ms or Apple.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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russoodle
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Location: Down-Under in South Oz

#27 Post by russoodle »

JustGreg wrote:Thank you, russodle for the information. I am no expert. In my researching UEFI, I did encountered the rEFIt tool. The MAC-INTEL PC use the old EFI approach and not UEFI. There are differences between the two resulting in the EFI tools not working well. The problem may be in the digital signatures used by UEFI. The digital signatures seem to be controlled by Microsoft. The Electronic Foundation has been waiting on Microsoft to approve/grant the signature certificate that will allow multiple system booting. At this time, it appears to be awaiting game for things to be sorted end. I have one more idea that I am going to try to get information on it from HP before changing the hard drive with legacy boot.
Ah, you've obviously researched more comprehensively than i have, Greg.....that's a pity about the differences between EFI v UEFI.

Regarding the apparent control of digital signatures by M$, in my view they control far too much in the digital/computing arena. It's hard to imagine that their greed and lust for power would allow them to approve multiple system booting, but morally, i don't see how they could justify a negative stance on such an important issue (not that i think they have much in the way of moral standards!).

I hope you manage to get around this obstacle on your machine and would be interested to know how you progress..

I haven't used an M$ OS in nearly six years - oh BLISS - and my computing experience has never been happier!!

@ Burn_IT....i agree, there's no way i'll be investing in a new 'brick'! Custom-build would be the way to go, but i don't need a cutting-edge machine for daily doings anyway, Puppy comes to the party on my variety of old kit, including the Macs, just fine :)

@ nooby....hello :D
I doubt i know more about these things than you do at all..

Your point is a very valid one, judging by what i've read on this subject so far. The way i see it is that, if arbitrary, proprietary and (digital) power-mongering continues and the strangleholds tighten, then either we'll see
  • a world of mindless mouse-clickers doing what their PC (M$/Apple) allows them to, like sheep..
or
  • digital anarchy - don't forget, Linux is free and there are millions of developers and users worldwide these days....Android is out there too and the hardware is much cheaper (Google-control :roll: )
Hopefully users will not tolerate these escalating levels of greed and control, and the likes of M$ and Apple will experience the horror of revenue-loss for their sins :twisted: (if they haven't begun to already..)

There'll be a 'Resistance', so cheer up, noob :wink:
[i][color=Green][size=92]The mud-elephant, wading thru the sea, leaves no tracks..[/size][/color][/i]

jamesbond
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#28 Post by jamesbond »

secure boot = secure all my future income in the boot 8)
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

jamesbond
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Location: The Blue Marble

#29 Post by jamesbond »

Test-build of Fatdog64 with UEFI support: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 431#674431
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

JustGreg
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Joined: Tue 24 May 2005, 10:55
Location: Connecticut USA

#30 Post by JustGreg »

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, jamebond and kirk (both co-developers of FATDOG64). I was going to post that my next experiment with this Compaq and Windows 8, was to try FATDOG64 Puppy on it. I have been using FATDOG64 on my home machine (Acer Aspire) to get familiar with it.

I will download and try it. After the New Year Holiday, I will post a report. By the way, does it come with a "Signature"? This is needed. I can try with the "signature" to use BCDedit to register it with the UEFI BCD registry. I read your post. Yes, it has the file I see. Thanks!

The next experiment is to see how a Puppy Fugal installation and a live CDROM works on Windows 8 partition either with UEFI or using legacy. I am interested to see how Windows 8 reacts to a new file on its partition.
Last edited by JustGreg on Mon 31 Dec 2012, 16:18, edited 1 time in total.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

nooby
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Joined: Sun 29 Jun 2008, 19:05
Location: SwedenEurope

#31 Post by nooby »

Greg one answer is here
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 431#674431

Now that the apocalypse hullaballo is over us, it's time to look forward to the future.

Kernel: EFI-enabled 3.4.24
Boot loaders: mjg59's shim, refind 0.6.2, grub2, and isolinux (for non-UEFI)
Other stuff: same as 611 with some bugfixes applied.
Expected to boot on:
- UEFI Secure Boot
- UEFI non Secure Boot
- Non-UEFI

ISO image is dual-isohybrid, you can burn it to CD/DVD or "dd" it to flash drive (note: the content of the flash drive will be decimated, so use one that you don't mind erasing):
Code:
dd if=fatdog-uefi.iso of=/dev/<your-flash-drive> bs=4M

Note: Make sure /dev/<your-flash-drive> points to your flash drive, because if it it points to your harddrive you can kiss all your data goodbye beyond the point of recovery. If you are not sure simply don't use "dd".

Booting on Secure Boot machines: you will be asked to load a certificate.

Find fatdog64.cer under <keys> directory, and load it.

Do not use any of the MS or Canonical certificates, they are there for test purposes.


Note: This is a test-build. Use it at your own risk. Expect bugs. Don't complain if it doesn't work, just report it. Same devx as 610/611 except that kernel module compiling won't work (different kernel), so no proprietary graphics driver for the time being. This isn't a replacement for 610/611. If 610/611 works for you, stick to that. This is a test build, it is not an alpha or beta release of Fatdog (though future Fatdog will be based on this work). It will not be maintained. Bugs for 610/611 should continue be reported under 610/611 thread http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=82611, only bugs related to UEFI environment should be reported here.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

JustGreg
Posts: 782
Joined: Tue 24 May 2005, 10:55
Location: Connecticut USA

#32 Post by JustGreg »

Since, I am using FatDog64, I will stop posting on this thread. The story will continue on http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 431#674431

Fatdog64 does work but I did have a problem. The problem maybe due to me.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

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