ArchPup 12.12.2

For talk and support relating specifically to Puppy derivatives
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mavrothal
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#201 Post by mavrothal »

stifiling wrote:mavrothal...the udev u posted in the last thread works. what makes it stop after a reboot though is the file /lib/libudev.so.0 gets overwritten.
I'll be damned :shock:
There goes my daemon :P

You just need to remove /lib/libudev.so.0.13.0 that is coming from udev-175 and is not overwritten by my udev-167.
Add in /etc/rc.d/rc.local

Code: Select all

ln -sf /lib/libudev.so.0.11.1 /lib/libudev.so.1
to be on the safe side.
No overwriting after that.

Another udev issue I guess.
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mikeslr
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Pacman's Potential in ArchPup --nooby questions

#202 Post by mikeslr »

Hi simargl & All,

After having urged for the creation of a Puplet having the capabilities of Archlinux, now that its here I'm not sure how best to use it. Basically my questions have to do with function of Pacman as it's being implemented under ArchPup's structure and capabilities. Please correct me if I'm in anyway wrong in my assumptions or conclusions.
Archlinux, itself, is designed as a “Full

simargl

#203 Post by simargl »

My idea is to always make frugal install, if you want full install then just download archlinux installation cd, it will be the same, except systemd and different system services startup. For installing applications you have choice - you can make bigger savefile and install packages to it, or you can apply makesfs script that will use pacman to download Archlinux packages and after that will convert them sfs module. SFS module will be gzip compressed, block size 512K, to speed up converting process and therefore noticably larger than Archlinux xz compressed packages. It's important to point out, that this script will automatically create proper entries for all converted package, so pacman will recognize them as installed. ArchPup can load 20 sfs modules, but if you later unload SFS file that contained dependencies for target package, you will have to find those missing packages and install them manually. Pacman will install dependencies according to .PKGINFO file inside package, it will not run ldd to find missing libraries. That pacman behaviour is right way if you ask me.

nancy reagan
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howto's

#204 Post by nancy reagan »

simargl wrote:My idea is to always make frugal install, if you want full install then just download archlinux installation cd, it will be the same, except systemd and different system services startup. For installing applications you have choice - you can make bigger savefile and install packages to it, or you can apply makesfs script that will use pacman to download Archlinux packages and after that will convert them sfs module. SFS module will be gzip compressed, block size 512K, to speed up converting process and therefore noticably larger than Archlinux xz compressed packages. It's important to point out, that this script will automatically create proper entries for all converted package, so pacman will recognize them as installed. ArchPup can load 20 sfs modules, but if you later unload SFS file that contained dependencies for target package, you will have to find those missing packages and install them manually. Pacman will install dependencies according to .PKGINFO file inside package, it will not run ldd to find missing libraries. That pacman behaviour is right way if you ask me.
Wouldn't it be useful to place explanations like this also on top of the thread as there is, for as far as I know, not much "howto"

stifiling
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#205 Post by stifiling »

alright, now that wireless and pup-volume-monitor has been figured out...i'm thinking you should add the fixes to the main iso and edit the first post with big red letters, "WIRELESS NOW WORKING!!!"

the linux-firmware.sfs looks about as foreign as the md5sum.txt.....they both get totally ignored.

here's the scenario:

Load up archpup.
Can't get on internet.
think to self "this still needs work."
load back into Dpup

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mavrothal
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#206 Post by mavrothal »

stifiling wrote:alright, now that wireless and pup-volume-monitor has been figured out...i'm thinking you should add the fixes to the main iso and edit the first post with big red letters, "WIRELESS NOW WORKING!!!"

the linux-firmware.sfs looks about as foreign as the md5sum.txt.....they both get totally ignored.
The "linux-firmware.sfs" bit is a bit cryptic. Does this mean that the firmware must be in the main sfs or that the firmware sfs must be configured differently?
Also the "wireless working" is it with Pwirless2, pns-tools, Frisbee, all of the above, other?

Regarding udev, I have a hard time seeing why v175 does not work 100%. I can only think the language of the build system that as with aufs-utils may up messing up gtk-doc, acl, attr or something else during compile time
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mavrothal
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patch

#207 Post by mavrothal »

wrong post
Last edited by mavrothal on Wed 13 Feb 2013, 20:15, edited 1 time in total.
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stifiling
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#208 Post by stifiling »

mavrothal wrote:The "linux-firmware.sfs" bit is a bit cryptic. Does this mean that the firmware must be in the main sfs or that the firmware sfs must be configured differently?
Also the "wireless working" is it with Pwirless2, pns-tools, Frisbee, all of the above, other?

Regarding udev, I have a hard time seeing why v175 does not work 100%. I can only think the language of the build system that as with aufs-utils may up messing up gtk-doc, acl, attr or something else during compile time
as far as the firmware...a lot of ppl don't know what 'firmware' is, or what it does, how to use it, and so on. putting myself in other's shoes, "i don't know what firmware is, md5sum, or nothing else. i do know iso though, so i download the iso file, load it, if it works...i'll keep moving. if it doesn't, i have 399 other puppy isos to pick from, hopefully the next one works right."

it works perfectly fine as the sfs file that it's in now, but everyone might not want, or know how to use sfs files the way we are. especially to get something like wireless working. Java..understandable to read and learn how to use an sfs for something like that. java or wine etc, those big packages. but to get wireless to work? it should work out the box. i shouldn't have to download this driver/sfs file and install/sfs_load it....to get wireless working. So in so many words, it works fine as a separate sfs, but i feel as though it should be included in the main.sfs.

and as far as "wireless working" i was referring to Frisbee. after i saw Frisbee working solidly, i didn't think it was necessary to even test pwireless2. Frisbee is the better choice. the notification in the panel is nice to have too. it let's u know if u're still online or not. pwireless2 doesn't have that. so if u're webpages aren't loading, u're either not online, or something is wrong with your browser. having Frisbee and it's notifications tells you which one it is.

now pup-volume-monitor and udev....the default volume-monitor and udev (aka systemd) in arch works perfectly fine. using pup-volume-monitor saves a few MBs...but it's also a futuristic issue for if someone wants KDE.....it doesn't work in Dolphin. the default does.

simargl

#209 Post by simargl »

mavrothal:
OK, will add this if you want, I changed some lines to use notify-send command, because gtkdialog splash is not installed. Thanks.
You may also want to change tint2rc so will remain border-less when the window border theme is changed
If I change:
panel_dock = 1 to panel_dock = 0,
windows will then go bellow panel - that looks bad.
Last edited by simargl on Mon 07 Jan 2013, 09:09, edited 1 time in total.

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mavrothal
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#210 Post by mavrothal »

simargl wrote:mavrothal:
OK, will add this if you want, I changed some lines to use notify-send command, because gtkdialog splash is not installed. Thanks.
Nice.

You might want to keep the original name though because a) some puppy apps are checking if snapmerge is running (Frisbee for one) b) you might still use usbsave in other settings.
Is your call.
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ciento
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#211 Post by ciento »

stifiling wrote:alright, now that wireless and pup-volume-monitor has been figured out...i'm thinking you should add the fixes to the main iso and edit the first post with big red letters, "WIRELESS NOW WORKING!!!"
and also thanks for adding wvdial in 12.12.1, will download
tonight! 3G and dialup using wvdial, means more connected people,
and then more long-term users as the word spreads :) !

stifiling
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#212 Post by stifiling »

ciento wrote:and also thanks for adding wvdial in 12.12.1, will download
tonight! 3G and dialup using wvdial, means more connected people,
and then more long-term users as the word spreads :) !
well the credit for adding wvdial goes to simargl. i am though...trying to get more of us 'connected'

simargl

#213 Post by simargl »

Sourceforge currently shows that iso size is 86.1 mb, but real size is 82.1 mb, I don't know why they give false information. If you want me to add linux-firmware (4mb) in main iso, then we must remove something, not 4mb but whole 6mb to make iso under 80mb again. Plan is: first I will move libraries mentioned here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 849#675849 to archdev sfs; then completely remove pacmanxg - that program is good, but anyone can install it later; remove yaourt with 3 dependencies. Packer will return but will be in archdev, it is logical because you anyway need archdev to compile. If you want to help, see if you can find some unnecessary stuff inside /initrd/pup_ro2 - this command might help (shows 20 largest files in folder):

Code: Select all

du -sh * | grep M | sort -n -r | head -n 20
Goal is to remove 6MB, current state: moved libs to archdev -600KB, pacmanxg and yourt - 1.6MB.

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dennis-slacko531
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PacmanXG4 worked where plain terminal pacman didn't...

#214 Post by dennis-slacko531 »

This may be minor, but I just installed Gimp using the terminal "pacman -S gimp" -- well, that increased my personal save file from 90MB to about 260MB, but Gimp didn't appear in the Graphics Menu. So, I used PacmanXG4 to reinstall Gimp and it appeared in the menu then, plus my personal save file increased about 7MB (menu entry?). Who knows, but this is pretty cool...!!

stifiling
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#215 Post by stifiling »

simargl wrote:Sourceforge currently shows that iso size is 86.1 mb, but real size is 82.1 mb, I don't know why they give false information. If you want me to add linux-firmware (4mb) in main iso, then we must remove something, not 4mb but whole 6mb to make iso under 80mb again. Plan is: first I will move libraries mentioned here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 849#675849 to archdev sfs; then completely remove pacmanxg - that program is good, but anyone can install it later; remove yaourt with 3 dependencies. Packer will return but will be in archdev, it is logical because you anyway need archdev to compile. If you want to help, see if you can find some unnecessary stuff inside /initrd/pup_ro2 - this command might help (shows 20 largest files in folder):

Code: Select all

du -sh * | grep M | sort -n -r | head -n 20
Goal is to remove 6MB, current state: moved libs to archdev -600KB, pacmanxg and yourt - 1.6MB.
well when u have to pick between an arm and a leg....i think having the leg is more beneficial. so rather than stripping the system out to that extent.....it's probably better overall to leave the linux-firmware as an sfs file.

simargl

#216 Post by simargl »

dennis-slacko531: If some applications don't appear in menu you could try to remove /root/.cache/menus folder, that will force menu to recreate. For installing larger applications maybe it's better to use makesfs script, that way space in savefile will not be used.

Anyone tested Pwireless, I can't add Frisbee because it's not using system dhcpcd, wpa_supplicant..., and needs older system libraries like readline.so.5 (included is readline.so.6).

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peebee
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Pwireless2 and b43

#217 Post by peebee »

simargl wrote:Anyone tested Pwireless, I can't add Frisbee because it's not using system dhcpcd, wpa_supplicant..., and needs older system libraries like readline.so.5 (included is readline.so.6).
Hi simargl

Pwireless2 will work ONLY if you add Xdialog & yaf-splash (=gtkdialog-splash) as http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... &start=157

Pwireless2 will work with b43 wifi but ONLY if you add the b43 firmware to /lib/firmware AND you load the b43 driver by editing /etc/rc.d/MODULESCONFIG to put b43 into addlist with necessary spaces.

Cheers
peebee
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simargl

#218 Post by simargl »

yaf-splash should not be mandatory, it only shows notifications, but ok will add Xdialog, it's 30kb.
Now I will try to recompile cups, same version 1.6.1, but without dependencies krb -1.5 mb and avahi -500kb. This folder /usr/share/i18n compressed is 3mb, something could be removed from there, .. but what...
EDIT: it's finished - cups package size is 6.7mb, converted was 6.9mb, plus I removed 5 dependencies of that old cups package, combined size 2.1mb.

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mavrothal
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#219 Post by mavrothal »

simargl wrote:Sourceforge currently shows that iso size is 86.1 mb, but real size is 82.1 mb, I don't know why they give false information. If you want me to add linux-firmware (4mb) in main iso, then we must remove something, not 4mb but whole 6mb to make iso under 80mb again.
Is the 80MB limit imposed by someone (sourceforge?) or is just a number that you are aiming for so will be an "80MB OS"?
If it is so will load in RAM, the ISO size limit is half of the available RAM. So 128MB for a 256MB machine.

Making the final decision you may want to consider functionality.
If the idea is that the base can be just used to build the system of your preference through pacman, then the wider possible hardware compatibility should be in the base. ie, video, audio, network, printing and peripherals drivers. So the machine will be adequately functional to build your system by just downloading packages.
If you can not make you hardware going OOTB, you just do not bother any further, particularly with a bare bones OS.

In any case keep in mind that these "build it yourself" pupplets may have a considerably more limited audience/user base. The Saluki/Carolina/lina-lite developers may provide some info. Also Tinycore vs Puppy is an equivalent similar comparison.
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simargl

#220 Post by simargl »

My idea is, as written is first post, to give full control to the end user - if someone want to install his own specific programs then he would just download main iso, and if he thinks that is too hard or lacks experience he will also download archapps sfs, then connect to the internet and start to explore. How to use pacman is explained in documentation with examples, everyone can make use of it. I first installed Arch Linux using net-install cd image. When installation finished I had OS without any application, not even graphical server, so had to use console browser called links to search on archwiki for informations, and finally got to work, after some 3 hours. That is what I would call bare bones OS, not ArchPup. And 80MB limit was invented today to add some "challenge to this game".

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