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sunburnt
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#21 Post by sunburnt »

System operations ( backup ) is a critical task ( not really an education ).
Losing your settings is a real pain, and time consuming to keep repairing.

As I upgrade to new Puppies a new SAVE requires much configuring.
I made a script to restore my desktop and the proper fixes to /root.
Thus avoiding doing it repeatedly ( much like reinventing the wheel ).

Some folks seem to love reinventing the wheel, it`s surely a waste.
Work once done shouldn`t be lost, "can" it so it`s reused.

Dewbie

#22 Post by Dewbie »

jpeps wrote:
Not to pick on anyone in particular
And then he picks on someone in particular. :lol:
is it too much to expect that a user learn basics like how to unpack a targz or edit the menu.lst, vs building yet another GUI?

Is it too much to expect that a user learn basics like how not to hijack a thread? :roll:
Last edited by Dewbie on Sun 24 Feb 2013, 02:51, edited 1 time in total.

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#23 Post by jpeps »

puppyluvr wrote:
Oh, and I still think every Puppy should have my X-Toys. 8)
I saw Eric Bina's name in there somewhere

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#24 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
Eric Bina created XFishtank from xfish by John Bradley, which was repackaged by Joey Hess which was repackaged for Puppy by Tazoc in 2007 with a dotpup from Guest Too from 2005. Jef Poskanzer first copyrighted the 'rastofish' themselves in 1989. Its all in the readme. I even fixed the readme info which didnt work before.
I never claimed to create the toys, except the XPark charactors, which I drew myself.
I just made a GUI for them all to work together in Puppy.
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#25 Post by jpeps »

puppyluvr wrote: I just made a GUI for them all to work together in Puppy.
I ran it from an SFS on OpenBox, JWM, and e17 for Lucid and Exprimo. The binaries worked and toggled on/off from the AppsRun script, but not from the GUI..which just added new instances...except for the fishtank, which worked as expected. I had to reset the desktop to get rid of them. Nothing worked on e17 ("enlightenment"), but then again we dislike one another intensely. Nothing loaded xearth ..gets complaints about not being able find the exec...That could be some issue with SFS. The XPuppy chaser was initially funny, but then there was no way to get rid of it without restarting X. In summary, the GUI appears to be the weakest link.
I don't really have time to pursue this, so am just giving one users experience. Maybe it's working for other setups.
Oh, and I still think every Puppy should have my X-Toys. Cool
???

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#26 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
Umm, where to start...
but then there was no way to get rid of it without restarting X
LOL.. As the instructions clearly state, as it is a roxapp, you click the button to start them, and CLICK THE BUTTON AGAIN TO STOP THEM...
You post:
he wasn't able to follow the clear instructions
Pot, meet kettle... :roll:
That could be some issue with SFS
What SFS??? I made a pet, which installs to my-roxapps, and works fine..
In summary, the GUI appears to be the weakest link.
You dont think I test my shit?? Seriously??
I tested it in Jwm/Openbox/Icewm/E16, where it works fine..
It doesnt work in E17 because it uses the root window for display, so it cant properly write to it, which it needs to do.. Also Compiz screws with the refresh so they skip and flicker..
In summary, :shock: , if used and installed as intended, it works fine..
IDK when I "pissed in your cheerios". :cry:
But hey, thanks for the critique..
My other stuff is in my repo in my signature link, perhaps you may want to
"critique" it too?? I`m sure some of it isnt perfect, God forbid....
Any USEFUL criticism is greatly appreciated, as I stated above...
Maybe my stuff isnt up to your standards, but for the other 99% it seems to work fine...
:D Sorry if I took it personally, but....
If used and installed as intended, it works fine..
Well, except xpuppy makes the cursor an X after killing it, as stated in the thread.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=63512
Did you read it???
Last edited by puppyluvr on Wed 09 Jan 2013, 00:53, edited 2 times in total.

nooby
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#27 Post by nooby »

Much appreciated you contributed.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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#28 Post by runtt21 »

Jay, Dude you totally ROCK !!!!!
[url]http://macpup.org/runtt21[/url]

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#29 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
Aww.. :wink: Thanks Runtt21..
But I just tinker about making things which sometimes inspire other things..
Look for a moment at what you have done with E-17 and Puppy..
Buddapup may have opened the door, but you remodeled the whole house, and built a balcony, and installed a pool...
No, Dude, you are the one who ROCKS..
But in the end, we all just do it for our love of Puppy..
And those who use it!!!
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#30 Post by jpeps »

puppyluvr wrote::
LOL.. As the instructions clearly state, as it is a roxapp, you click the button to start them, and CLICK THE BUTTON AGAIN TO STOP THEM...
read my post


What SFS??? I made a pet, which installs to my-roxapps, and works fine..
read my post

The reason I tested with an SFS, is because there are a lot of files, and I wanted to try on several systems without installing/uninstalling. As I noted, occasionally there is an issue with the SFS vs pet..which is always useful to know. Interesting that the scripts worked though, but not the GUI.
You dont think I test my shit?? Seriously??
What works on your computer may not work on other computers. That's why we test.

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#31 Post by puppyluvr »

:? Hello,
read my post
Well, I guess I must be blind, cause it doesnt explain WHAT SFS?
I made a pet, which if installed, works fine..
Maybe I am being an idiot here, and would gladly admit so..
But first explain how you ran a pet from an heretofore unknown SFS, and expected it to work as if installed as intended.
Maybe my hours of testing were in vain, IDK..
I INSTALLED THE PET to Jwm/Openbox/Icewm/E-16 ect and it WORKED as expected.. on Pups from 2.15 to 5.25.. But I am able to accept I may have missed something.. So INSTALL IT AS INTENDED.. Then test it and tell me where it fails for you, and I will correct, if possible, your issues..
Perhaps it cant find "/initrd/pup_ro5" or wherever the SFS is mounted, IDK..
What I do know is it works for everyone who installs it as intended...

So, in essence, I respond to your criticism with an attempt to resolve your issues with my app..
So please forgo the SFS and try it as intended, and tell me if it gives you trouble then, and I will be happy to help, if I can..
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#32 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
To be fair, I realize some new Pup`s have no /root/my-roxapps so a mkdir would be in order, but as I made it 2 years ago, that is to be expected.. :wink:
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#33 Post by jpeps »

puppyluvr wrote::D Hello,
To be fair, I realize some new Pup`s have no /root/my-roxapps so a mkdir would be in order, but as I made it 2 years ago, that is to be expected.. :wink:
The directories are all present, which is how I ran the scripts and know that they toggle on/off instead of loading new instances. As I noted, the fishtank worked as expected. The issue apparently is related to gtkdialog when loaded by an SFS, if it's working as a pet. Anyway, you don't want testing, and I don't take orders, nor am I seeking help. I figured as long as I was taking up space in the thread, I might as well try your app. There's also the possibility of conflicts with other programs, etc., etc. Anyway...enough. Happy birthday.

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#34 Post by RSH »

Hi.

I don't want to make trouble on your birthday, but I can confirm some issues, when using XToys from sfs. Can't remember in detail but I did decide then, not to use it, because I want to run all my applications from sfs. What doesn't work from sfs I don't use generally.

Happy 5th birthday (I had my 1st about four months ago :) )

RSH
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#35 Post by jpeps »

RSH wrote:Hi.

I don't want to make trouble on your birthday, but I can confirm some issues, when using XToys from sfs. Can't remember in detail but I did decide then, not to use it, because I want to run all my applications from sfs. What doesn't work from sfs I don't use generally.

Happy 5th birthday (I had my 1st about four months ago :) )

RSH
Puppyluvr doesn't understand why a tester might be reluctant to install 281 files in 72 directories to view a fish tank.

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#36 Post by puppyluvr »

:D Hello,
Puppyluvr doesn't understand why a tester might be reluctant to install 281 files in 72 directories to view a fish tank.
Well geez, when you put it like that.. :wink:
Look, all I am saying is if you use something in a way it wasnt intended to be used, and it doesnt perform properly, then the "weakest link" isnt my GUI, its gtkdialog and SFS related..
I`m not arguing the merits of 5.6mb (unpacked) of silly toys..
I never made an SFS of it because it is so small, and petget will remove it easily.. However, I do stand by my stuff, so tonight I will make a working SFS of it, if I can.
So I`ve gone from celebrating 5 years on this forum, to defending a silly little app I made 2 years ago.. :roll:
Maybe we got off on the wrong foot, maybe my defending GUI`s annoyed you, IDK. Much of my stuff could use updating, but as a 48 year old single parent with 3 jobs, I have not had the time...
Still, it is what it is. It does work as I intended it to. If even 1 user enjoys it, then I am still happy.... :D
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#37 Post by jpeps »

puppyluvr, welcome to the world of developing :)

(and it isn't worth losing a marriage over)

gcmartin

#38 Post by gcmartin »

The discussion that are being raised here are kinda aimed wrongly.

Let me see if I can help.

It is my understanding that PUPPY Linux is a distro which comes with a PPM. Its the OFFICIAL way to bring needed subystems and application into your public distro's playground.

Several years ago, outside of Puppy Linux AND WHEN INTERNET SPEEDS WERE SLOW even on Internet Backbones, a group began with another methods of compression packaging and layering named SFS. In that design, it was anticipated to take advantage of, not just compression, but also a layering approach.

Fast forward: Over the years several distro packagers has chosen to take using SFS: some for compression and others for layering.

Puppy, seeing this trend has added SFS to its arsenal as SFS moved from a skeleton to what it is now.

Here's what I understand as OFFICIAL. PPM will and continues to process PETs. ANY PUPPY DEVELOPER who creates a PET will have their PET processed correctly by the PPM subsystem such that it can be interrogated for installation and uninstalled if necessary along with all the other things PPM does to make user lives simple, straightforward, and smooth.

Officially, JAMESBOND, Playdayz, Pemasu, and 01Micko has all shared from time to time that its a Developer's CHOICE (maybe I should say "RIGHT" to determine what vehicle to use for the distribution of his product.

This recent posts seems to be making attempts to deny or change the developers offering method to the Puppy distro user community.

As users, we sometimes forget this very fact. Most, if not all, distro developers are working in community to do something that is good for the users based upon technology that they glean useful.

Further, a user who is non-sophisticated will ALWAYS use PPM to add functionality. But, a sophisticated Linux user will draw upon their great knowledge to add stuff to their desktop experience.

To those sophisticated users, I think we can approach this in a different manner.

Here's an option which "MAY" satisfy the SFS issue for those who would prefer that as a deliverable method.
  • Help PuppyLuvr by posting an SFS of his subsystem
  • Request that after your test finding and the method of installation you used on the distro you have so that others can see your finding too.
This level of cooperation is a much better approach for both the developer and users, as well as those who would like to choose their method of installation; namely in or out of the PPM process used by MOST currently available PUPs.

There is much work being done at the community level in SFS and some distro developers are taking advantage of add SFS processing into PPM.

BUT TO BE SAFE, PET PROCESSING CONTINUES TO WORK.

Lastly on the note about the number of programs in a PET, I not so sure that the comment has merit given the fact that most of us use JAVA, FLASH, and all sort of apps that used object oriented development. So,pointing to the fact that a PET might contain more bytes than one would like is NOT a good measure in pushing any developer to SFS.

I will share that some of the development community will upon request make a PPM PET from the SFSs they offer. In some cases, the PET has been actually a wee-bit smaller and in others, the PET has been a wee-bit larger. So the idea of compression might NOT be item in consideration anymore. Oh well.

Maybe a helpful approach is in order.

Here to help
PS. Please remember, I am only trying to help. I have no interest in taking sides. Just only to eyes open enough to help anyone I can.

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#39 Post by jpeps »

gcmartin wrote:The discussion that are being raised here are kinda aimed wrongly.

Let me see if I can help.
No offense, but, as usual, you're not understanding some basics. There is nobody monitoring the quality of pets. Users just click on things. If an SFS is breaking down, there's a strong likelihood that something isn't quite right , even if the pet works. There's the little issue of data corruption, for example. In the present case, how many of those 281 files are actually being used? Is it necessary for them to be scattered around in 72 different directories? Am I asking the system to do ungodly tasks for a seemingly very simple process (eg, loading a fishtank app).

Coding is an art; there's good code and a lot of bad code. It's too easy to put buttons on a group of other peoples binaries and scripts, and make a pet. Therein lies the problem.

re: installing/uninstalling: Again, a user just clicks on a few buttons without understanding what's happening. I have my own scripts that check what the files are, what is getting overwritten, etc, and my own uninstaller that gets rid of all the open directories and all the files. Our uninstaller, if you've noticed, is very conservative...meaning lots gets left behind (all the open directories, etc). I'm not worried about uninstalling overwritten files, because I don't load them to begin with.

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#40 Post by RSH »

This recent posts seems to be making attempts to deny or change the developers offering method to the Puppy distro user community.
I don't know if I did get this right.

I don't want to deny anything but I would like to see a BIG change in the developers offering method for programs!

Generally in Linux!

Why?

So, in my humble opinion Linux, especially Puppy Linux has only one BIG issue: the f... symbolic links in the directories of the libraries!
I would like to see hanging the guy who has invented the method to use symbolic links, exactly named as another, for the use of linking it to different libraries in different programs.

I do know a lot of Linux applications from windows. Each application comes as portable application and comes with its own qt, gtk, libs etc.

Why isn't this possible in Linux, especially Puppy Linux?

If Puppy Linux could arrive a stage wherein each application would call its real libraries (and not just symbolic links, which are used for different libraries by different programs), almost all problems relating to PET and/or SFS will be gone!

And also almost all discussion on that.

Then the user would be REALLY free to choose the OS, the programs and the way how to use/install, which would be a great benefit to advise new users of Puppy Linux.

So, just three things to do:

1. Stop talking 8)
2. Kill the guy :wink:
3. Kick out the f... symbolic links from /lib and /usr/lib etc :evil:

A small step for the dog, but a giant leap for the puppy... :lol:

RSH

EDIT:

Just to remind:

Each an every year, tons of GB are wasted for the use of new blinking stuff around the same old applications.

But to have all three different versions of a library included in the OS is too much waste of working and/or saving space?

Naahhh......!

Such behavior, such look on computers and its programs and interfaces has to change - immediately!
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