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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
ArchPup 12.12.2
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 09:12    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
Yes it will be separate, but only if it's possible to overwrite files from main sfs, with those from archapps.sfs


the way that i would accomplish that is by using the archpupx script and a tmp file stored on the archapps.sfs, so if it gets auto loaded archpupx could have an if command scripted at the beginning of it like:

Code:
if /etc/tmpprofile; then
     rm /etc/profile
     mv /etc/tmpprofile /etc/profile
fi


i know that if command isn't right, but i know u get the point.

so if it's done like this, tmpprofile would be visible and not overlayed because it would have that odd name, and it would be moved to the top layer before X starts.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1691

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 09:17    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
What's important with adrv or better call it apdrive, is if that sfs module will be able to overwrite files in archpup-12.12.sfs.
If you add xfce desktop then /etc/profile needs to be overwritten in order to replace
Quote:
export WINDOW_MANAGER="openbox"

with:
Quote:
export WINDOW_MANAGER="xfce4-session"

EDIT: To continue using archapps-12.12.sfs, it's best to automatically load additional file
that contains archapps-*.sfs, so it will support newer version and also different names like archapps-xfce.sfs


Lets not get carried away.
The {a,apps,archapps}drv.sfs that auto-loads on boot should be only one (imagine someone trying to load and run 2 different desktops). For user facilitation a gtldialog/yad script could be included in the base as a GUI to choose which of the available SFSs will renamed to adrv.sfs for next boot, but even this might be an exaggeration. You do not even need terminal to rename a file and everyone know how to do it from the file manager.

Regarding over-writing, all the SFSs except the savefile and pup_rw are below the main sfs in the layered filesystem. So any overwriting must be done by an install script in the said SFS.
I believe SFS_load supports running install scripts (didn't check the archpup version) and something similar should be added in the rc.sysinit if adrv.sfs needs this.

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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 09:45    Post subject:  

/etc/profile wouldn't need to be overwritten anyhow if it only existed in the adrv, right?

adrv.sfs = window manager, editor, filemanager, alsa, etc.

main.sfs = cups, firmware, modules, pacman

why is this view being so ignored? Somebody please tell me so i can let it go.
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simargl
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PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 10:46    Post subject:  

stifiling wrote:
/etc/profile wouldn't need to be overwritten anyhow if it only existed in the adrv, right?

It wouldn't need to be overwritten if I remove /etc/profile from main sfs, but I can't remove it, because it specifies needed environment variables. Anyway, for me it seems easier to just inside sfs file (xfce.sfs ?), make pinstall.sh script that will replace window manager in /etc/profile. This adrv thing looks like too complicated.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1691

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 14:35    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
stifiling wrote:
/etc/profile wouldn't need to be overwritten anyhow if it only existed in the adrv, right?

It wouldn't need to be overwritten if I remove /etc/profile from main sfs, but I can't remove it, because it specifies needed environment variables. Anyway, for me it seems easier to just inside sfs file (xfce.sfs ?), make pinstall.sh script that will replace window manager in /etc/profile. This adrv thing looks like too complicated.


Twisted Evil

Not really.
To "satisfy" stifiling all you need is to remove /usr/bin/archpupx. Then X will not start. And there are other ways too.

I had some progress on the adrv Very Happy. The attached initrd patch will mount archapps sfs (renamed adrv_arch_1212.sfs) fine on /initrd/pup_a.
Pls remind me the script that you modify the puppy initrd.gz with so I can make a proper patch (including the mode'ing commands) for your repo (but please feel free to do it yourself Razz )

Although not mandatory, I also included DISTRO_IDSTRING. Makes file detection more efficient. You just need to add it in the SFSs and the kernel with
Code:
echo -n "$DISTRO_IDSTRING" >> target_file


Are we ready then? No.
The union is not formed properly. The sfs in mounted in /initrd/pup_a and files there open ok (tried firefox) but /initrd/pup_a is not part of the union.
So I have to look in the main sfs Sad .
Is Archpup using anything unique (comparing to traditional puppies) to set up the layered FS (besides missing aufs-utils)?

Latter. The 7 people that downloaded this patch please disregard it and download the new one that works OK!

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Last edited by mavrothal on Thu 10 Jan 2013, 14:31; edited 4 times in total
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1691

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 15:06    Post subject:  

Is archdev-12.12.2.sfs still uploading?
The link provided in the first post does not work nor http://sourceforge.net/projects/archpup/files/12.12.2/ has it.

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wsamh

Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 17:51    Post subject:  

Does xorgwizard work on archpup?
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 19:17    Post subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
To "satisfy" stifiling all you need is to remove /usr/bin/archpupx.


It's not for me, it's for users that want it clean, but also with pacman. So just removing that file, isn't not gonna clean it out.

It's to appeal to arch linux users. Users who want only: kernel, modules, and pacman....and not 1 byte of nothing else.

users who still pick Arch Linux, over Arch Bang....Arch Bang comes with a window manager, a terminal, etc. Arch Linux comes with nothing. only, kernel and pacman, and ppl love it for that.

And this can be accomplished. where it would satisfy both kinds of users....using the adrv, if we can get it going, and also if simargl is interested in setting it up that way.

everything should be in the adrv. alsa, gtk, everything...except pacman.
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
Posts: 1691

PostPosted: Wed 09 Jan 2013, 23:59    Post subject:  

stifiling wrote:
mavrothal wrote:
To "satisfy" stifiling all you need is to remove /usr/bin/archpupx.


It's not for me, it's for users that want it clean, but also with pacman. So just removing that file, isn't not gonna clean it out.


From what I can see the discussion was at the point of removing profile from the base so X will start when adrv is loaded without the need to overwite files in the base. Moving archpupx out of the base, an equally small file will do just that without affecting general OS architecture.



On the question of what goes in the base. As you said kernel and pacman is already available. Kernel, pacman, X and a WM also...
But even if you are not happy with these, archpup build scripts are there too. Changing the names of the packages that go to the base over adrv over devx, is not really the issue.

The real issue is having a usable sytem that things work together well OOTB with an 80-150MB iso. Splitting the SFSs within the iso is secondary at this point.

For the "OOTB system", I would worry first about the kernel, which because of an environmental variable miss-configuration during source download and compile (language), has problems with its headers (and elsewhere?) and does not allow aufs-util compilation and use. It may also be the reason of the problematic udev.
In the "kernel" section also add all the peripherals/subsystem detection and firmware.

Then I would wary about X switching and monitor detection and configuration. The first is perennial problem with the multitude of hardware out there, while the second is currently missing from archpup.

After you establish a solid system that works on most hardware reliably, then you look at basic functionality, ie ease of installation, saving and reconfiguration, which are fairly different in puppy compared to other distros.

Finally, you decide on userspace apps and how to distribute them in your iso. The reason that I put the "file distribution" last is that it can affect bug detection and solution in the previous steps if everyone is using a different system.

But then again, all these may not be as fun to work on Razz

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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan 2013, 00:17    Post subject:  

ok i see where your coming from.

at the same time though i did come across a way to illustrate, in a fully functioning and booting to Openbox iso. with 2 sfs files, and openbox in the second one, not the main one.

I'm sending it to you and sim right now.
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dennis-slacko531


Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 103
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan 2013, 01:25    Post subject: Can we open a 2nd thread for non-dev's please?  

A slower paced thread would be helpful. For example, seems I lost my default wallpaper while playing around. Unlike other pup's, when I put this red robot in /usr/share/backgrounds the system apparently renamed it "default" and the butterfly was gone! BTW, does anyone have a link to that butterfly? Anyone here use Twitter? Just a thought...

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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan 2013, 02:57    Post subject: Re: Can we open a 2nd thread for non-dev's please?  

dennis-slacko531 wrote:
A slower paced thread would be helpful. For example, seems I lost my default wallpaper while playing around. Unlike other pup's, when I put this red robot in /usr/share/backgrounds the system apparently renamed it "default" and the butterfly was gone! BTW, does anyone have a link to that butterfly? Anyone here use Twitter? Just a thought...



dennis you can retrieve the butterfly from the location in your puppy:

/initrd/pup_ro2/usr/share/backgrounds/default.jpg
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dennis-slacko531


Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 103
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan 2013, 03:48    Post subject:  

Yes, it's there.... It took several trial & error "moves" with Thunar before I moved it from
/initrd/pup_ro2/usr/share/backgrounds/default.jpg --TO-- /root/default.jpg

Only after that it worked out via -- Preferences/Openbox/Change Wallpaper
Thanks for the solution. LOL, I was getting used to Red Robot..
*EDIT: If someone actually wants Red Robot, it's on my server at Godaddy.
**http://www.beok.com/Downloads/MARVINSKEW2.png (1.3MB)
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2229
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan 2013, 05:22    Post subject:  

simargl wrote:
stifiling wrote:
/etc/profile wouldn't need to be overwritten anyhow if it only existed in the adrv, right?

It wouldn't need to be overwritten if I remove /etc/profile from main sfs, but I can't remove it, because it specifies needed environment variables. Anyway, for me it seems easier to just inside sfs file (xfce.sfs ?), make pinstall.sh script that will replace window manager in /etc/profile. This adrv thing looks like too complicated.


I haven't looked at archpup at all so take my comments with a grain of salt. For this particular problem, I think you can just drop SFS-specific /etc/profile into /etc/profile.d/ and name them accordingly, e.g. for the gui.sfs you can name it /etc/profile.d/gui.sh and make them executable. The code that does this lives in /etc/profile and has been there for a long time - Barry commented that he lifted it off from Vector. This way you can load any SFS in any order and all will have their required environment variables properly set.

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simargl
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Jan 2013, 06:48    Post subject:  

@stifiling: This test iso works only with kernel parameter apextsfs=arch_openbox.sfs, otherwise additional sfs is not loaded. So that would require patching grub4dos, but even with that user will have to edit menu.lst every time for another arch_*.sfs. It's good idea that you moved /usr/bin/X to another sfs, so on boot it will not stuck trying to exec archpupx over and over again.
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