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 Forum index » House Training » Beginners Help ( Start Here)
Have a 64bit PC? Beware of FATDOG6+! -- Its addictive
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4220
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 17:14    Post subject:  Have a 64bit PC? Beware of FATDOG6+! -- Its addictive  

FATDOG is Linux distro released and discussed under the Puppy Linux Discussion Forum (PLDF). This thread is about the expectation to the changes in the latest versions released; namely 600, 610, 611, plus its near future releases (2013).

Its name is "FATDOG", but this is wrongly named for what it truly is.
I been a Puppy Linux follower for many a year. But, as I point to the name FATDOG, I must admit that this distro is neither FAT (its less that 256MB shipped to the user; via ISO) and its so fast, that you probably have to call it a DOG when compared to PUPs released in Puppyland. As anyone should expect, a DOG is faster than a PUPPY and can hold its own more than a PUPPY.

If I were looking for some alias to reference this distro, I would call it LightningDOG because it is so lightning fast in its operation.

One other concept, that anyone who comes to this forum in search of a fast Linux distro should understand (for its NOT apparent), is that the reference in the name of DOG versus PUP indicates that this is NOT just a mature Puppy Linux. No, this is an altogether different approach to delivering a speedy (in fact the fastest, yet) and well rounded Linux distro. It speedily delivers functionality and contains a goodly set of utilities to maintain and expand the system functionality as well as user operation for office needs.

ANYONE who may have started via other Linux distro, including the plethora of Puppy distros MUST UNDERSTAND: "This distro is revolutionary in its booting options, its desktop setup, and its concept for operations than any other distro yet experienced".

Several members in the PLDF community have already made attempts to warn community members who pick up FATDOG to beware and plan for the difference in its architecture so as not to be frustrated in achieving results using traditional methods of Puppy Linux usage.
One member has already made a contribution to ease in their document for ===> New User Use and Understanding
Further,if you are not fortunate enough to have read his document before delving into FATDOG, you MUST using your browser, peruse its enclosed information (but, there is no table of contents internally for this info as of yet). Without going thru these documents, you will be starting at a disadvantaged position in gaining an OOTB happy experience without frustration.
So, again, I emphasize, without reading, upfront, in preparation of FATDOG, you've got a recipe for frustration

This is a message to try to help those who would pick up FATDOG to understand this.
Many may NOT like this apples to apples reference, but if you've ever gone from Win95/WinNT/Win2000 to Vista/Win7, then expect that this is that kind of leap. That is, everything is there, but, its been redesigned or moved around.

But, I can't help but share, again, using the alias I referenced, this LightningDOG is enormously more speedy that most everything we experience when we boot it on a 64bit PC where other OSes may have been running before. It races on your PCs. (I recommend users use have either; 1-2GB RAM OR setup a SWAP partition

Lastly, in the PC/laptop arena, since 2006, 84% of all systems sold are 64bit systems. Most of the PLDF community may already have at least one of them.

So beware, if you lift the covers, you will become hooked on this speedy distro!

If you are not a code/distro developer, I hope one sees this before delving in, as it could provides some calming as you go forward.

Here to help

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Flash
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Joined: 04 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 19:36    Post subject:  

If someone wanted to try it out, where would they find it?
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duke93535


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 194
Location: California , High Desert

PostPosted: Wed 16 Jan 2013, 20:13    Post subject:  

With my bread and butter AMD 1055 6 core processor, the remaster of Fatdog, with minor changes and add-ons boots in 6 and half seconds.

My Dad’s AMD 945 4 core computer boots in less than 9 seconds .

Find it here:

ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/metalab/distributions/fatdog/iso/ (200 MB)
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dk60902


Joined: 26 Sep 2010
Posts: 223
Location: In front of my computer

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 00:30    Post subject:  

duke93535 wrote:
With my bread and butter AMD 1055 6 core processor, the remaster of Fatdog, with minor changes and add-ons boots in 6 and half seconds.

My Dad’s AMD 945 4 core computer boots in less than 9 seconds .

Find it here:

ftp://ftp.nluug.nl/pub/metalab/distributions/fatdog/iso/


I'm impressed. How do you run Fatdog on your rig (frugal install, full install, CD, USB)?

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smokey01


Joined: 30 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 01:01    Post subject:  

It's intended for frugal installs but will work on all the methods you have mentioned.

I prefer frugal.

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duke93535


Joined: 05 May 2005
Posts: 194
Location: California , High Desert

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 01:29    Post subject:  

dk60902

Those times are on a full install, but I have frugals which I don’t use much and are generally the same as the full. I’ll fire up the frugals for the times.

On the 4 core it takes less than 10 seconds, mine 6 core is 7.43 seconds for the Fatdog frugals. These times are from the start grub menu to full load.

This is the code I add to /etc/X11/xinitrc to get the time.

Code:
cat /proc/uptime >>/tmp/boot-timing
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 02:47    Post subject: Using the Original CD/DVD for FATDOG6+ operations  

I have NEVER installed a FATDOG of any version to a USB/HDD. I have been a faithful Live media DVD user with session changes saved onto the media. This has been a practice that I have always use for all PUPs. It provides a non-destructive media for operations.

For others who are also CD/DVD media users, be aware that the initial boot menu is not obvious in what to select for its use. To help if you're intending to have all of your worked saved to the CD/DVD, you MUST select Live Media. Anything else will not allow you to have a non-frustrated experience.

Here to help

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Bligh

Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 484
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 02:57    Post subject:  

I am using 6.0 booting from cd with a save file on the data partition of the hdd. Is there a way to speed up boot time? I have found most of the other stuff, except the wired ethernet monitor is in the center of the panel.
Cheers
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 03:29    Post subject: this could reduce startup jitters. But need developer review  

in using FATDOG6+ there are 3 things that I think would be a help to any user, paricularly new user coming to FATDOG to ease the initial experience.

They all involve initial use of FATDOG coming to the desktop for the first time.
    The following 2 steps
  1. Launch Shinobar's FirstRUN utility in FATDOG. This would assist all current Puppy users as it start us off with a familiar start with necessary info in a single screen for system use. This is enormously comfortable and useful assistance in the initial start of the PUPs now in use and would be so in FATDOG as well. After initial completion of this single screen setup step, then,
  2. Launch the Browser to the FATDOG home screen with a menu to get to the important setup and use information in FATDOG. Smokey01 also has a Beginner's Users Guide that the browser could also contain pointers to in an effort to present good and useful startup information.
Beyond that, this year is 2013. FATDOG has chosen to include a 6 year old version of SAMBA??? Why not use, at least the 2 year version which has SMB2 built in. SAMBA currently has moved on even to SMB3 in its current incarnation while FATDOG remains at the initial 1993 version of SMB. Maybe a consideration for next version. My calculations show it still is below the 224MB ISO download size should the developers include any one of the recent SAMBA versions. This still makes for one of the smallest 64bit downloads in the industry, thus far. And with internet speeds being what they are and internet stability being at unparalleled levels, we will remain safe in delivery without impacts. I would envision that the OOTB experience would be much better than leaving it to user to figure out and retrofit a base system.

There's a lot of very good and useful information, layout, and utilities in this new version. But, I feel these ideas could make a comfortable guided start in what is a very-very good system.

Hope this is clearly helpful

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 09:28    Post subject:  

gcmartin:

You have commented about these Fatdog issues before - FirstRun and Samba. And jamesbond has explained the rationale for how Fatdog handles them.

Yet you persist.
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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3364
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 11:48    Post subject:  

I am wondering if I can safely run Fatdog on my PC on a regular basis.
Here is where it gets iffy.
The PC is a Compaq Presario with an AMD Athlon X2 4800 Dual-Core Processor with 3 gigs of ram.
But from what I can make of the specs on it, it basically is a 32bit PC that had a 64bit processor installed.
Also, the Windows Vista Version that came with it is 32bit.

I did try booting up Fatdog as a frugal install on it and it seemed to work other than Seamonkey giving me an error of not being able to use a bookmark backup file from a bookmark backup made with another version of Puppy.
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rcrsn51


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Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 11:55    Post subject:  

8-bit wrote:
The PC is a Compaq Presario with an AMD Athlon X2 4800 Dual-Core Processor

I have Fatdog on an old Athlon 64 3000+ and it works fine.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 14:13    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
gcmartin:

You have commented about these Fatdog issues before - FirstRun and Samba. And jamesbond has explained the rationale for how Fatdog handles them.

Yet you persist.
Thanks @Rcrsn51 for this. Yes, I have.

I did listen, too. But this is not done in a vacuum. I meet once a month with other seniors who in comparison feel lost when they get to the desktop. In pre-FATDOG, before version 5.2, FATDOG has a text based startup from its ISO, At least here, there was user involvement as he approached desktop. Now, I applaud the setup that is being done under the covers for user behalf. But, maybe some screen should be present allowing user corrections or allowing users to have a single screen status of what's been done, so that the lost feeling that they have arriving at desktop would dissipate. Others may not be sharing this information with the developers, but I am. I feel its the right thing to do. Further if someone else does it (as in the case of Shinobar), then there is no guarantee that development will understand or add the benefit to the ISO offering. This should not and need not be an "after the fact" addition to the system. It should be in the ISO and it should be the initial starting point for everyone as it has mutually beneficial results.

Again, I suggest this because its the right thing to do for user community. Its absence does not invite acceptance. It presence invites further investigation in this fine system. FATDOG6+ is a revolutionary departure from anything PUPPY! So, I ask development for their secondary considerations Its the right thing to do.

Yet, I still maintain the relevance of those items especially to new and non-new users as OOTB and a starting point for desktop use.

If maybe Shinobar's tool would be wrongly placed, then maybe "some similar single screen ISO start" would be appropriate to initiate system use for everyone in the same manner. Maybe a FATDOG specific single screen in the ISO.

I think having user knowingly be involved in the setting of those things provides a good point of initiation and user involvement in his/her system.

Please understand that my suggestions are for ease of use and ease of getting initial user of comfort with minor involvement he sees in a single screen.

Hope this helps.

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rcrsn51


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PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 14:30    Post subject:  

This must be the first case in computer history where people complained because they got to a working desktop TOO soon.
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Thu 17 Jan 2013, 18:22    Post subject:  

8-bit wrote:
I am wondering if I can safely run Fatdog on my PC on a regular basis.
....
The PC is a Compaq Presario with an AMD Athlon X2 4800 Dual-Core Processor with 3 gigs of ram. ... .
The X2 is a 64bit processor. In fact, most all AMDs since 2007 are 64bit PCs.

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