Pussy: potentially a Puppy with a perfect package manager

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sickgut
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#1761 Post by sickgut »

finally uploading the first draft of slimmed down debian live wheezy iso that will be the base for the next version of Pussy

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux ... velopment/

is the URL to the directory that the ISO is being uploaded to.

ill post again when its finished uploading.

I have tested the HDD install feature and it works perfectly.
Note this iso is only a development tool for people wanting to build their own debian based distro (there is no Pussy branding anywhere) there is also no Xorg and its a console only bare bones OS at the moment. DHCP and wired ethernet is autodetected very well and so running apt-get update and then apt-get install whatever will work out the box.

This is a 345mb + download still due to the fact that wheezy is bloated, the linux kernel is getting stupidly large and the hdd install feature itself adds about 100MB or more to the size of the ISO.

Within a week or so the server Pussy will be released and then work will begin on a more desktop orientated OS like the current Pussy Xtra.

nooby
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#1762 Post by nooby »

does it include the ability to boot on NTFS or does it need
Linux partitions? Can I reuse the code that booted your
first version of Pussy?
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

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Pete22
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Pussy and music

#1763 Post by Pete22 »

sickgut:

It looks like you are setting pussy up to work with music editing and writing.
Wonderful.

What version of Rosegarden will be included when you release your new version of pussy?

Pete

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sickgut
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Re: Pussy and music

#1764 Post by sickgut »

Pete22 wrote:sickgut:

It looks like you are setting pussy up to work with music editing and writing.
Wonderful.

What version of Rosegarden will be included when you release your new version of pussy?

Pete
At the present time i dont know particularly wat will fit on a CDROM and what will fit on a DVD.

Im hoping to make a small server that is a webserver, ftp server, telnet, ssh server and that will be just a few MB in size. No sound stuff in this.

I would imagine that the CDROM sized distro would have LMMS and a decent suit of wave editors and video clip editors etc and maybe a softsynth or 2 that will work as soon as you plug in a USB/ MIDI keyboard. I am not entirely sure i could fit rosegarden into a CDROM sized distro.

The DVD sized version however will ave EVERYTHING you could possibly imagine. Whatever the latest and greatest rosegarden is, it will have it. Audacity, Audacious, Aud-watever, all of them.

I personally am a computer using musician and i Pussy is a distro that i use myself and i guarantee you the music stuff will kick as much ass as possible.

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sickgut
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#1765 Post by sickgut »

nooby wrote:does it include the ability to boot on NTFS or does it need
Linux partitions? Can I reuse the code that booted your
first version of Pussy?

all of this i would be inclined to say yes, however..... i have not tested it fully. I will be testing this over the next few days. Nte the current ISO is about as bare as anyting can be, it has nano for text editing and DHCP networking etc but thats it. Its basicly useless to anyone other than a developer wanting to make their own slim wheezy based debian distro or someone looking to see what pussy looks like with no clothes on.

i think the iso is even bootable from grub, altho i have modified it somewhat, i think this feature would still be in tact.

however i cant offer frm answers till ive actually made this into a fully working and mouse clicking desktop able OS

more news will follow shortly

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#1766 Post by sickgut »

Just to confirm, the bare base ISO that Pussy will be built on is now ready, fully uploaded to the internet and ready to be downloaded and the url is:

http://www.thepussycatforest.info/linux ... y-bare.iso

350mb and basicly useless to anyone other than developers, this is just the base im using to build Pussy on top of. It does allow for full HDD install, apt-get works and can be run live from usb stick or cdrom as well. 350mb is big, i did slim this down from 500mb or so but damn, wheezy is massive. If i do away with full HDD install features the ISO would only be 180mb or so. It will remain to be seen if the couple hundred MB overhead of the HDD install feature is worth keeping or not.

Something worth noting is that the graphical install method has not been stripped from this ISO yet. Its branded with Debian logos everywhere and may deter people from using this as a base to make their own OS. Text install is better, it doesnt have any logos. I broke an ISO by ripping the graphical install guts out of it so i left it there this time. I will try again to get rid of graphical install. Graphical install requires some silly video modes that are just stupid anyway. Text install will be the future standard.

Something else worth noting is that if you do install fully to HDD you get to choose your own root password and the user name and the username password, they can be anything you like. If running the OS live, by imaging it to a USB stick or running from CDROM/ DVD etc or even frugal install to HDD and manually rig up GRUB to boot it, then the root password will remain set as Pussy and the default user name will be meow and the default username password will be Pussy. The host name will also be meow. If you install full to HDD you get to choose your own hostname as well. The default username wont be used much but it is there, as Pussy, like Puppy is supposed to be run as root all the time.

Removing debian logos and grphical install will probably save 20mb from the ISO.

A more public consumable Pussy will be released soon, first the server version, a cdrom sized version and then the ultimate ass kicking DVD sized version. Asses will be bruised, asses will be kicked, and other OS asses will be very sore.

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#1767 Post by sickgut »

Letting you all know that the whole:

"lets download a small pussy that has nothing in it, then another 2 or 3 squashfs addon files to make the OS all nice and awesome"

isnt going to be happening anymore. Keeping track and sync of all the squashfs files working together took so much upkeep its not worth it.

There will ofcause be the usual slew of ISO's, bare server, cdrom size and dvd size. But the entire OS will be in one squashfs file. in each of the ISOs.

however i am not entirely against having the odd sleek browser squashfs or whatever, that really doesnt rely or depend on anything in the OS and is static, thats fine. However there will be none of this large OS on top of a small OS thing.

This makes it so much easier for copy to ram boot as you can specify just one squashfs to load without the live system trying to copy the entire partition to the RAM.

Only small individual applications, that are not available in the debian repos and or the debian version of the app is like too old or really bloated to all hell, then yeah a squashfs addon is just fine.

Tricky apps that need fancy configuration like samba and whatever, is also a good reason to have a squashfs addon. I personally was a huge fan of jbv's samba squashfs package.

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#1768 Post by mini-jaguar »

That sounds really cool about the upcoming version, I've tried Pussy xtra several times, but it got a little confusing because of the menus, including that there are menus for Debian and Pussy apps and some are repeated.

And that wallpaper was really awesome, although I've rebooted back into it and I can't figure out how I made it appear. I did it on the third or fourth boot anyways, it's not obvious.

But I did like that it had lmms. It would be nice if the new version has Ardour, although I certainly wouldn't mind some lesser known apps like Jokosher, GNUSound, or JahShaka.

nooby
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#1769 Post by nooby »

sickgut so much to read through Hope you
and everubody can have patience with me now.

I boot that new iso and all works well but I am at a prompt
and have no idea what to write for to get a desktop?

Very embarrassing but that is me.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

gcmartin

#1770 Post by gcmartin »

... isnt going to be happening anymore. Keeping track and sync of all the squashfs files working together took so much upkeep its not worth it. ...
This is one of the major tactical changes that today's PCs afford this development community.

The main PCs that this community is using is a 2006 or later PC which was a 1GB standard even then. (There are very very few users whose ONLY PC is a 256MB PC, earlier than 2006.) And, for those pre-2006 PC it is hoped that their PC running Linux is still as speedy today as when they first booted it last year or earlier. Primarily, 2006+ PCs give developers a platform where they have enough room to provide the very best OOTB comfortable user experience possible. They were not able to do this years ago. Now, functionality has become much more important than limited usability due to size.

One idea that several of the distro developers have utilized is they indicate in the Opening Thread in some occasions, what spec PC they intend as the minimum platform for their distro. Some have gone so far as to indicate the minimum, but, put a disclaimer that says it "MAY" run on platforms less than the minimum. But doing so, it is understood what the distro developer is suggesting as a comfortable system to support what is delivered.

I have run many distros in the community, and have NOT found, even, one distro that did NOT find comfort in all of my 2006+ PCs. 2 years ago, the developers in Puppy Linux was a 32bit leader in producing PUPs that run on PCs with as little as 512MB to as much RAM as is physically possible to cram into a system. And, those new generation 32bit PC did NOT lose a step with their older technology 32bit kernel distro brethren. In fact, community members were reporting positive responsiveness with PAE distros compared to the non-PAE versions.

At the end of 2010, 2 64bit PUPs appeared. One a 200MB version and the other a robust 600MB version. In running each, the 600MB version was, simply, as fast, if not faster than the 200MB version. What this demonstrates to community members is that the size of the distro has little to do with the user performance needs for their system. The biggest advantage of the 600MB system was that I had little to no need to install anything in using it. I ran that system for a year with its only reboot was on its first day after desktop tailoring to get a save-session image of the system.

I think that many members in this community, too, may have a system or 2 that they rarely touch, while they experiment with the distros that they test from time-to-time.

Hopefully, others will share their successful operations so that it helps you to decide the kind of systems you would want for their use.

We just need good Pussy.

jpeps
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#1771 Post by jpeps »

gcmartin wrote:
We just need good Pussy.
:shock:

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#1772 Post by sickgut »

mini-jaguar wrote:That sounds really cool about the upcoming version, I've tried Pussy xtra several times, but it got a little confusing because of the menus, including that there are menus for Debian and Pussy apps and some are repeated.

And that wallpaper was really awesome, although I've rebooted back into it and I can't figure out how I made it appear. I did it on the third or fourth boot anyways, it's not obvious.

But I did like that it had lmms. It would be nice if the new version has Ardour, although I certainly wouldn't mind some lesser known apps like Jokosher, GNUSound, or JahShaka.
Hi buddy
Old Pussy booted into a JWM XORG desktop without roxfiler enabled by default, to save ram (using this you could actually run Pussy with 64MB RAM reasonably ok). If you want to bring up the high quality desktop then click on the "meow?" menu tab then click on the "Rox Filer Background" tab. This enables the high quality desktop.

In the next version of pussy, it will automatically boot to the high quality desktop with rox filer running and managing the background wallpaper etc.

You have a right to be confused bu the double Pussy and Deban menus, that was an actual bug. I just wanted there to be Pussy or Programs or Accessories or whatever menu there, but for some reason JWM always insisted on putting a Debian entry there and when you install stuff by apt-get the updated menu entry would end up in Debian. But all the custom stuff was in Pussy because the debian base wouldnt allow the custom stufff to be in Debian.
The real problem here is the auto added stuff you install would auto add itself to Debian menu selection but it wouldnt work. This is why we needed to add another custom section, i called Pussy that actually had working menus. It was a mess.

i think saintless came up with a work around and this will be fixed in the next version.

thanks for suggesting the other applications at the end of your post, i will check them out. I use Linux to make music as well and i definately want all the best audio creation/ editing stuff to be in Pussy.

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#1773 Post by sickgut »

nooby wrote:sickgut so much to read through Hope you
and everubody can have patience with me now.

I boot that new iso and all works well but I am at a prompt
and have no idea what to write for to get a desktop?

Very embarrassing but that is me.
There is nothing other than a bare console in that wheezy-base.iso
not a Pussy yet, just the bare bones that Pussy will be built on top of, there is no desktop etc. However network stuff is autodetected and there is all the usual Linux command line commands and its a good base for someone wanting to make their own Linux OS by building ontop of this, its really only useful for developers and is half the size or less than the same ISO downloaded from the official Debian Live servers because ive slimmed it. But if you wanted to add a desktop then try:

sudo -i
apt-get update
apt-get install xorg jwm rox-filer

You might want to have something better than JWM as the window manager as its pretty damn terrible if it hasnt been tweaked.

If you are going for a lighter desktop then try instead without rox-filer then:

apt-get install xorg fluxbox

Fluxbox kind of has more working features than most Window Managers in their default un tweaked state.

Thanks for testing the iso, did you boot the actual ISO in GRUB or copy the files from the ISO onto the HDD and boot it frugally with GRUB that way?
Last edited by sickgut on Wed 13 Feb 2013, 05:13, edited 2 times in total.

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sickgut
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#1774 Post by sickgut »

gcmartin wrote:
... isnt going to be happening anymore. Keeping track and sync of all the squashfs files working together took so much upkeep its not worth it. ...
This is one of the major tactical changes that today's PCs afford this development community.

The main PCs that this community is using is a 2006 or later PC which was a 1GB standard even then. (There are very very few users whose ONLY PC is a 256MB PC, earlier than 2006.) And, for those pre-2006 PC it is hoped that their PC running Linux is still as speedy today as when they first booted it last year or earlier. Primarily, 2006+ PCs give developers a platform where they have enough room to provide the very best OOTB comfortable user experience possible. They were not able to do this years ago. Now, functionality has become much more important than limited usability due to size.

One idea that several of the distro developers have utilized is they indicate in the Opening Thread in some occasions, what spec PC they intend as the minimum platform for their distro. Some have gone so far as to indicate the minimum, but, put a disclaimer that says it "MAY" run on platforms less than the minimum. But doing so, it is understood what the distro developer is suggesting as a comfortable system to support what is delivered.

I have run many distros in the community, and have NOT found, even, one distro that did NOT find comfort in all of my 2006+ PCs. 2 years ago, the developers in Puppy Linux was a 32bit leader in producing PUPs that run on PCs with as little as 512MB to as much RAM as is physically possible to cram into a system. And, those new generation 32bit PC did NOT lose a step with their older technology 32bit kernel distro brethren. In fact, community members were reporting positive responsiveness with PAE distros compared to the non-PAE versions.

At the end of 2010, 2 64bit PUPs appeared. One a 200MB version and the other a robust 600MB version. In running each, the 600MB version was, simply, as fast, if not faster than the 200MB version. What this demonstrates to community members is that the size of the distro has little to do with the user performance needs for their system. The biggest advantage of the 600MB system was that I had little to no need to install anything in using it. I ran that system for a year with its only reboot was on its first day after desktop tailoring to get a save-session image of the system.

I think that many members in this community, too, may have a system or 2 that they rarely touch, while they experiment with the distros that they test from time-to-time.

Hopefully, others will share their successful operations so that it helps you to decide the kind of systems you would want for their use.

We just need good Pussy.
i completely agree with you. Now that disk space is huge on the normal PC (even from 2006) and USB sticks and SD cards and blank CDROM and DVD's are so cheap. then its best to make an OS fit snugly on the media its intended for and include as much functionality as Possible. There is no point in a 100 or 200MB distro anymore, it costs the same to burn a 100MB distro to a DVD as a 4GB distro. Also like you said, smaller size on the disk doesnt mean faster. The only way smaller 100MB or 200Mb distros are faster than 600MB ones is your using copy to RAM and running it from RAM. Today we have PCs with 4GB and even 16GB RAM.

The size of the media Pussy is intended to be installed on will gauge its size, except for Pussy server as its hard to make a console only OS fill an entire CDROM:

Pussy server (less than 600mb)
Pussy standard (700MB CDROM sized)
Pussy DVD edition (4GB or so, to fit on a DVD)

Note: the new Pussy standard will be the equivalent of the old Pussy Xtra. Pussy standard will probably just be called Pussy.

Im listing this stuff here because im leading to a point:
There will be no half assed small desktop distro that needs you to install everything to be any use like the old Pussy Base.

The days of installing an OS then spending a day or two finding and installing everything you need are over. All free OSes should have all the stuff you need in them right from boot, or GTFO.

super agree with you gcmartin, im not trying over agree with you and make you uncomfortable, so lets just say i agree with you alot.

nooby
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#1775 Post by nooby »

I had promised myself to boot as many OS as I could
using rcrsn51 version of Scooby's easy to boot
that is renamed by rcrsn51 to isobooter that makes
it always fresh boot I guess always calling the "live"
so maybe no persistence other than if one know how
to do such on usb on live OS. thanks for your suggestions

i think I stick to CrunchBang and Zorin and Netrunner
that have almost everything installed from scratch
and are still under 1GB so they fit a small cheap old usb
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

gcmartin

Some current full featured examples

#1776 Post by gcmartin »

There are 2 Puppy distros that I have run, continuously, since their introduction primarily because they are so fully featured with little to no need to add anything externally. They are LightHouse Mariner (64bit) and Slacko's FATSlacko (32bit). FATDOG64 also comes to mind but does not bring some office packaging or sharing that the others bring OOTB. All of these fit nicely on a CD (ranging 250-550MB)

This info is presented, merely, as examples of some of the efforts others in the Puppy community present for a much fuller (and stable) OOTB solution for community's productive use. These provide an integration in the OOTB which is assembled proper, and tested leaving little to chance in system issues from incorrect PPM/product additions which sometimes occur when users attempt upgrades. Each of these distros bring forward the same ability to extend the system that all prior PUPs bring to the table.

This does not suggest anything at all about Pussy or your direction. For Pussy is a well concieved, thought thru, and assembled packaging that WORKS! The ideas on the other distros in done ONLY to provide a look at what is an OOTB experience where anyone with a Apple/Windows background (99% of the world's PC users) would be totally impressed with. The 2 authors seemed to have tried to cover everything any user (much less Windows user) would ever look for, OOTB.

You have done a wonderful creation with Pussy. I look forward to your future creations. And, we will help in any way, same as most/all other Puppy contributors would, to bring usefulness to the community.

Thanks for all you've done and all you intend to do for us.

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#1777 Post by sickgut »

Linux could be so epic its not funny.

Windows seems to be the standard everyone is trying to make a Linux distro to be like, simply to help people move from windows to Linux.....

But Windows OOTB is rather lame, and adding stuff is even lamererer.

You want firefox? ok goto www.firefox.com ... You want a better DVD player software ? Sort through 100 google searches and websites. And dont forget all the crap with needing antivirus, antispyware... goto www.gimp.org to get gimp, goto the sun/ oracle website then find what java you need, then goto adobes website to find flash. Then download a wav editor and goto www.fruityloops.com for the demo of flstudio, then sort though 100 different web pages for a decent dvd to mp4 file ripper and dont forget to pay for MS Office, coz thats got to be the best right?
OK lets get a free game... Open Arena at www.openarena.ws (because everyone automatically guesses that Open Arena would be at a .ws site and not a .com right?)

Dont forget that installing windows takes about half a day once your done with drivers. And then searching for all your apps will take the other half of the day.

Thats how you do things in Windows... but in a well sorted linux?
Insert Linux CDROM or DVD, copy save file to HDD or select USB stick install or HDD frugal or whatever it is,we all know how quick this is with Puppy or Pussy... Maybe 20 mins if yo havent had your coffee for the day?

Ok so how long to install all your apps ?

One command line, easy ... just type this:

apt-get install firefox mplayer nonfree-codecs gimp java lmms mhwavedit handbreak flash libreoffice openarena

This might take you 2 minutes if you type one handed with one finger and dont have any thumbs.

May take 10 - 15 mins over an industry standard adsl or over cable internet connection then maybe 5 minutes or less to download, then another 3 minutes to let apt-get install it all.

and thats all you need to do on debian or ubuntu or pussy. One command, all done, simple. Way better than Windows by a factor of 22 thousand, 4 hundred and thirty 3 point 2. Well that long ass number might be a little over stated but you all get my point

E P I C !!!

Windows 7 install and general system setup with everything you need = 1 day.

A Live Linux OS with apt-get: 20 mins to half an hour for a novice, a newbie may require an hour.

So much potential its simply not funny.

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#1778 Post by greengeek »

Please add Freeoffice2012 into pussy if poss. Ta

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#1779 Post by sickgut »

greengeek wrote:Please add Freeoffice2012 into pussy if poss. Ta
no problem ill check it out, thanks for your input

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#1780 Post by sickgut »

Ok people im taking a few days off, to catch up on sleep and to destress, get my mind right. Silly freaking strange cant remember writing some posts on forums and wondering what the f*** is up.

this isnt as bad as it sounds, this kinda thing happens when you dont sleep for 3 or 4 days at a time. Dream and reality kinda merge. I even quoted someone saying something in reponse to one of my posts and he didnt even write comment, it never existed.

so, this is a wake up call. More sleep, get myself sorted and come back fresh and rested and not crazy.

ive been doing this development thing for years now and i still have no idea what is a sustainable work load and what is not. I also say the same thing over and over again in a loop when i get this tired and i can see this was happening recent when i read back on my posts.

anyway, not to worry, im fine, this is a pre existing condition that i have been managing for many years and its not like i just went crazy or had a breakdown or anything. Its just sleep deprivation. I code, then cant get it out my head, i think instead of sleep and boom, right back here again telling everyone im taking time off for like the 3rd time since this thread started.

ok im rambling, ill see you all round in a few days
keep you pussy cats stored safely on shelves and make sure thay have pleanty of water along with the dried cat food. Remember to pick them up, cuddle them pat them and play with them for atleast 15 mins a day.

and im outa here for a bit. see you all soon.

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