Fatdog64-620beta2

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nooby
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#41 Post by nooby »

Can I do frugal install of Fatdog on that Packard Bell
without ever entering into win8?

I mean if I press F2 and set it to boot from DVD or USB
and then always bypass the Win8 until I have the frugal install
and then always have it chose Linux first always?

I don't want to activate the win8 they would update everything
and it would take hours. At most I would make a recovery disk
but not really go into a standard boot into Win8 because
I would not know to use win8. A workmate warned me it is
not as easy as win7
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

nooby
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#42 Post by nooby »

kirk wrote:
What I still miss is the info if the UEFI allow me
to do a frugal install of Fatdog on the internal HD?
It does, however you must do it very carefully. There is a beautifully written guide on this subject by kirk, it's part of the FAQ in the Fatdog iso.
It's also here:

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/web/fa ... drive.html

But don't do a frugal install on secure boot with beta2, I forgot to sign the kernel :(

You can do a frugal install on secure boot if you use grub with refind, because grub is signed and the signed grub will load a unsigned kernel. But it would be a easier to wait for final.


Then I wait for the Final that have the Signature Certificate signed?

But this worry me much
You can use the same fat32 boot partition (ESP) that Windows 8 uses, as long as that partition has at least 215MB free. But you MUST disable hibernation in Windows 8, aka Fast boot. If you don't then the fat32 boot partition will become corrupt. To disable hibernation open a terminal as the administrator in Windows 8 and type:

Code:
powercfg -h off


If you are going to try this, it's also a good idea to make a copy of all the files on the ESP in case you accidentally didn't disable hibernation.
But I don't want to use that special partition
I want to use the partition where they have all the other stuff.

So that the frugal install is as non-intrusive as possible.

Is that partition crypted then or some alien formatting or
why can one not use it as I do on the old Win Vista that I use now?
Them have recovery on a hidden partition that is only for the recovery
while sda1 is for all the other stuff
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

kirk
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#43 Post by kirk »

Then I wait for the Final that have the Signature Certificate signed
Yes, that would be best. Booting from CD/USB is not affected and you could still do it by using Grub2, but it would be easier to wait.
But I don't want to use that special partition
I want to use the partition where they have all the other stuff.
UEFI will only boot from a fat32 partition. Window 8 has a boot loader on a fat32 partition (ESP) that then loads Windows 8 that is on a NTFS partition. You must boot from a Fat32 partition. You can use the one Windows uses if you disable hibernation or you can follow the FAQs instructions and create a new fat32 partition to boot from, the latter does not require disabling hibernation.

If you really don't want to touch anything you can just boot from USB.

One other thought, most laptops have flash card readers. It's probably possible to boot from a flash card. I've thought about that in the past, but I didn't have a spare SD card. Might have good boot speed and might be able to turn off the hard drive to save on the battery. I'll see if I can find one and do some testing.
EDIT: No, can't seem to get my laptops to boot directly from a SD card. The UEFI just doesn't see it.
Last edited by kirk on Fri 08 Mar 2013, 17:28, edited 1 time in total.

nooby
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#44 Post by nooby »

Thanks
Okay so they protect it that way.
I will most likely buy the PB desktop
due to that gives me a modern LED
separate screen that have HDMI and
DVI VGA connectors that would allow me
to use Android ARM sticks in the future
like RPi and similar.
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though

gcmartin

#45 Post by gcmartin »

This is just an idea, but, there may be inhibitors to this idea.

There are utility and instructions for setting up Frugal. On UEFI PCs, could there be a test to, either
  1. automatically entering the "powercfg ..." command when setting up frugal via system's utility; we can see the partition and knows its presence.
  2. Visually recommend, strongly, when detecting UEFI PCs for manually entering the "powercfg ..." command in their Windows session
So as, to assist in avoidance of corruption of the ESP.

Many users are very new to this, and the technology, and the potential of corruption, not to mention ESP's recovery.

Just an idea that might help.

JustGreg
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#46 Post by JustGreg »

I am still having problems. First, I do have to say the documentation in the FAQ is very good. I have been reading it and trying things.

I did try the nomodeset parameter and use vesa driver. I had no success with that parameter. But, I did create the file, /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-gpudriver.conf. I modified it for the radeon driver and tried the option. Thank you, Jamesbond for the information. It is a little better, but, still fails.

I am going to try the coldplug kernel parameter to see if it resolves the issue. What is confusing for me is Fatdog64 611 works so well on this computer.

I did a hard info report using the Fatdog64 620 Beta 2. The report lists the CPU: AMD C-60 APU with Radeon(tm) HD Graphics 1000.00MHz.

I have also checked to see what other drivers in the 600 pet library that are available. Here are the latest ones that look like they may work:
ati-catalyst-12.6-hd234-3.7.10.pet 2013-Mar-01
ati-catalyst-12.8-3.7.10.pet 2013-Mar-01
ati-catalyst-13.1-3.7.10.pet 2013-Mar-01
ati-catalyst-legacy-13.1-3.7.10.pet 2013-Mar-01

Any suggestions on which one to try first, will be appreciated.

I do think that Fatdog64 is the distribution to use with UEFI booting. The boot process works well out of the box. Mokmanager is not easiest to use, but, does work. Once everything is set up, there are no booting problems. If you are familiar with Grub then the transition to Grub 2 is not that hard.

Thank you in advance for any help on this. Now to see what coldplug does while waiting for the 25 centimeters of snow coming down to stop :shock:
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

kirk
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#47 Post by kirk »

What is confusing for me is Fatdog64 611 works so well on this computer.
That means it's the new kernel or the new Xorg ati driver that is causing problems.
ati-catalyst-12.6-hd234-3.7.10.pet 2013-Mar-01
ati-catalyst-12.8-3.7.10.pet 2013-Mar-01
ati-catalyst-13.1-3.7.10.pet 2013-Mar-01
ati-catalyst-legacy-13.1-3.7.10.pet 2013-Mar-01

Any suggestions on which one to try first, will be appreciated.
Go to ATI's web site:

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/Pages/index.aspx

and go through their driver selector, but don't download what they suggest, just make note of the Catalyst version they say to use. Then download the pet that is needed.

I've also put a pet of the old version of the Xorg ati driver you can try.

http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/broken ... 6.14.6.pet

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ally
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#48 Post by ally »

hey kirk/jb

LOVING this new build, fast, cool and stable - sweet!

I have noticed a 'gtk dialogue' error when using ppm, packages install ok after clearing error box, however, items install to 'other' directory (firefox & galculator)

:)

jamesbond
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#49 Post by jamesbond »

ally wrote: I have noticed a 'gtk dialogue' error when using ppm, packages install ok after clearing error box, however, items install to 'other' directory (firefox & galculator)

:)
Thanks ally, fixed for next release. It only happens when initial download is slow - but yeah, it shouldn't happen in the first place.
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

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ally
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#50 Post by ally »

it's really hard to find bugs - been trying hard too!

:)

JustGreg
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#51 Post by JustGreg »

Thank you, Kirk for the information and making the older driver available.

I tried the coldplug parameter. It seems to work. I have done over 20 cold starts and no problems. I am staying with it for now.

I am fairly sure the video driver is not the problem. I think the new kernel is doing something that causes a initialization problem. When the kernel is probing the hardware, the display changes greatly, but, it seems to be in a graphic mode for console at the end. It does not go into a text mode (80 by 25) initially.

Thanks for the help. At least, we know another way (coldplug) to help new hardware to work. I also think the BIOS is optimize for Window$ in some way for a quick graphic start up and is not documented. The issue may be in going from a text mode to graphic mode. Window$ 8 wants to be in graphic mode for the boot process. Windows$ 8 does not display any of the normal POST information. This could be the source of the initialization problem.

Hopefully, I will not be back reporting on this problem.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

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ally
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#52 Post by ally »

hey jb

having difficulties with the pmusic build

unable to select tracks from directory by navigating the file tree, clicking on directory location does not open to reveal music files

was able to obtain a playlist by using the random add function (in theis case 10 files) but only 3 were displayed in the list although more files playable [edit - this refreshed when trying to navigate file tree again]

current track info did not change from the default 'hoovers - ride with me' file

the 'define which sources to search' dialogue box stayed on screen also

:)

jamesbond
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#53 Post by jamesbond »

Thanks for the report. Yes it is not working the way you explained it. Pmusic in Fatdog is old (version 2.6.2), I saw kirk attempted to update to pmusic 3.0 but then cancelled the update. Probably because it requires updated gtkdialog. I just tried to install pmusic 3.2.3 (latest) but it doesn't work too, again because gtkdialog failed to launch the menu.

I need to check with zigbert which version of gtkdialog is required - we recently updated gtkdialog to version 0.8.3 (from 0.8.0) and apparently this is still not good enough?
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JustGreg
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#54 Post by JustGreg »

Kirk had mentioned that the Fatdog 64 boot software would work with any kernel. So I tried it with the latest Slacko 5.5. It did work after getting the grub configuration correct for Slacko 5.5.

However, if anyone else tries this then make sure you have pfix=nox option for the first boot. The puppy automatic setup of the X server fails badly. Slacko 5.5 reports the BIOS has no VESA extensions. One needs to use xorgwizard carefully to select the proper Video driver. Make sure you test the configuration and have a successful result before starting X server.

I have keep the pfix=nox option. I am getting similar failures of the X server that I first encountered with Fatdog64 620 Beta1 and Beta2. The video setup on this Compaq CQ-58 is difficult.

But, the coldplug option has greatly help. If there is an interest in how I setup Grub, please tell me and I will post the details under the Hardware section.

For UEFI hardware, I still think Fatdog 64 is the best because it is a 64 bit architecture. The new UEFI hardware uses the 64 bit processors.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

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prehistoric
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#55 Post by prehistoric »

JustGreg wrote:...If there is an interest in how I setup Grub, please tell me and I will post the details under the Hardware section,,,
Please do.

jamesbond
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#56 Post by jamesbond »

prehistoric wrote:
JustGreg wrote:...If there is an interest in how I setup Grub, please tell me and I will post the details under the Hardware section,,,
Please do.
And JustGreg just did, here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 810#690810.

Thanks JustGreg.

Another note on the radeon problem - I encountered this in around beta1 I think. My laptop has an radeon card, it would boot fine in BIOS mode. But when I tried to boot it under UEFI (on the same laptop!), the radeon driver *does not* work for me - it displayed the screen briefly, showed some corruption, and then went to the neverland requiring power-cycle to get it restarted. It used to work in pre-beta1. We tried to go back to earlier version of radeon Xorg driver but it didn't work too, so our guess now is something in the kernel have changed. In the end, I was forced to use unaccelerated "modesetting" driver if I want to be able to do anything at all.

EDIT: I have just tried with beta2 and I still have the same problem.
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

gcmartin

save-sessions reboot

#57 Post by gcmartin »

2 tthings that are probably already schedule for adjustments in the upcoming release.

SWAP ON is not remembered over save-sessions reboot.
NUM-Lock is not remembered over save-sessions reboot.

Swap is the most critical because of all of the subsystems, browsers and VM clients that are being run, its a little unsettling to have to constantly stumble upon this not getting started at system startup. System will begin to crawl and if someone is unaware, they could wrongly assume a different system component the problem. If the swap detection could be added back in, it would address this.

I have always been clear on the flags in GParted. But, many/most system users do not make constant changes to their HDDs/USBs. The number of time the community users will boot a system exceeds the GParted concern by the 10s of thousands. And, I think that most who use GParted already know about their own use of SWAP where seeing the flag is not an issue. The SWAP partition flag is expected by all/most of us who use GPARTED. whereas Windows users who never used SWAP would never see a flag anyhow. So, this might help in your evaluation of turning swap detection on/off.

thanks to consideration.

jamesbond
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#58 Post by jamesbond »

Thank you gcmartin for the feedback.

Automatic swap detection will not be coming back for reasons I have stated before. If one needs to use swap at every boot, add swapon command in /etc/rc.d/rc.local or add the swap entry in /etc/fstab.

JustGreg, just saw your comment about the snow - I thought it no longer snows in March? :shock:
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rcrsn51
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#59 Post by rcrsn51 »

jamesbond wrote:JustGreg, just saw your comment about the snow - I thought it no longer snows in March? :shock:
It sure does. But it's the snow in April that is really depressing.

JustGreg
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#60 Post by JustGreg »

Another note on the radeon problem - I encountered this in around beta1 I think. My laptop has an radeon card, it would boot fine in BIOS mode. But when I tried to boot it under UEFI (on the same laptop!), the radeon driver *does not* work for me - it displayed the screen briefly, showed some corruption, and then went to the neverland requiring power-cycle to get it restarted. It used to work in pre-beta1. We tried to go back to earlier version of radeon Xorg driver but it didn't work too, so our guess now is something in the kernel have changed. In the end, I was forced to use unaccelerated "modesetting" driver if I want to be able to do anything at all.
I think it is a UEFI BIOS issue. As far as I can tell, the UEFI BIOS seems to prefer a graphic mode. Window$ 8 uses graphic video for the start. It shows a "lame" graphic from power up.

With Slacko UEFI USB device, I found that the VESA BIOS extensions are not present. The UEFI BIOS may not even support text modes now. That change is probably buried in the thousand pages of the UEFI specification. The legacy BIOS may still have it.

I think the Radeon driver is OK. It is going from the graphic mode of UEIF BIOS to console text mode that may be the issue. Something may not get re-initialized correctly when the X server starts. However, since I have added the coldplug option, X server has started correctly for over 30 times now. When the kernel probes the hardware, the display flashes with strange patterns and colors, but, the X sever does start without freeze up.

The problem you describe with beta1 and beta2 is the same as I found. It does not always happen, which is maddening. You think you have fixed, only to find a couple of boots later, it is still there.

I did the Slacko UEFI experiment to see if it would have the same problem. Yes, it does. Once again, sometimes it works and other times, it does not.

I guess Linux needs to drop the text mode console and stay with a graphical frame buffer console. I wish I knew more on how to set that configuration up. But, I will make the offer to test it if someone makes a total graphical start up process. Edit: I checked the Fatdog64 FAQ. Fatdog64 does use the graphical frame buffer console. So, it will have to be another version of Puppy to be tested.

I hope this helps.

Yes, rcrsn51, snow in April is depressing, but, the good news is it disappears quickly.
Last edited by JustGreg on Sun 10 Mar 2013, 20:44, edited 1 time in total.
Enjoy life, Just Greg
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much

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