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Toshiba 2670DVD Trident xorg configuration
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 25 Mar 2012, 13:55    Post_subject:  Toshiba 2670DVD Trident xorg configuration
Sub_title: Akita works properly, nothing else does.
 

I have a laptop which seems to have oddball Trident video hardware and the display is flickery, and the mouse movement is extremely jerky.

However, if I run Akita from a live CD and select VESA, the mouse operation is perfect and the video is clean. It is the only puppy that I have found that makes the mouse and video work properly on this laptop. My question is how do I identify which parameters are making this laptop work correctly, and where are those parameters found (for both mouse and video), and can I force those parameters permanently into another puppy?

The machine is a Toshiba 2670DVD PIII 448Mhz laptop with 192Mb RAM. It uses a Trident Cyber 9525 (Rev49) video adapter.

(I'm going to stick with Akita on this lappy because it just works, but it bugs me that I don't understand why the xorgs keep changing when I try to modify other puppies video, and I want to know how to get the exact setup correct). If I can figure out what Akita is doing right then I will have learned something valuable.

I tried Macpup 525 with VESA on this machine (because I found a forum entry somewhere that suggested success with this version) but still had the bad video and mouse. I've tried HEAPS of other puppies too.

I assume that the xorg.conf is involved, but have had very limited success with previous attempts to change xorg on other puppies.

Attached is a pic of the /etc/X11 xorg files when running Akita live. Where to start when there are so many xorg.confs??? Aaaargh!
Akita LiveCD xorgs.jpg
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Akita LiveCD xorgs.jpg

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darkcity


Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 2462
Location: near here

PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar 2012, 15:17    Post_subject:  

One technique I use is to mount the pupsave when its not in use - to see what has changed.

For example -
copy pupsave.2fs -> pupsaveAA.2fs and
copy pup431.sfs -> pup431AA.sfs

then you can mount and compare the contents of
pupsaveAA.2fs and pup431AA.sfs

Idea

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar 2012, 15:04    Post_subject:  

Thanks darkcity, that will be useful.

I’m experimenting and slowly discovering things about how xorg works. So far I have found the following:

1) The video behaviour is determined by the contents of the xorg.conf file in etc/x11. However, this file is not “constant” and changes depending on various circumstances.
2) If there is no xorg.conf file already in existence in etc/x11 at all, then xorg runs an instance of xorgwizard and builds a new xorg.conf based on the users interaction with the xorgwizard.
3) Sometimes xorg seems to decide that the contents of the xorg.conf file are not appropriate and it will overwrite that file with content that it “borrows” from some of the other xorg.conf.xxx files that are lying around in /etc/X11. (I really don’t know how those other xorg.conf.xxx files get there, but they seem to be somehow related to the specifc video hardware that I am using. They must get configured automatically at boot time??). I have no idea yet what triggers xorg to grab that “hardware specific” info from those other files and overwrite the existing xorg.conf.

In the image I posted above, there is a file xorg.conf.TRIDENT_copyright_1997. Different puppies that I run on this same hardware seem to have other similar files like that (although not identical..). As long as files like that are present in etc/x11 then xorg will use them to overwrite the xorg.conf.

I tried borrowing the xorg.conf from Akita and substituting it for the previous xorg.conf in the etc/x11 on some other puppy installs and it would only work when I also used the same Akita xorg.conf contents to overwrite the contents of those other TRIDENT files (even though I now had a valid xorg.conf file). I am stumped as to how xorg decides that an existing xorg.conf is inappropriate, and must be overwritten. It seems to look at the file name only (eg TRIDENT) and does not worry about the contents (because in my example they match exactly what is in the xorg.conf that I borrowed from Akita)

If this sounds confusing it is because I am still trying to clarify things in my head (sorry!)

There is also another issue here: I think that there must be two ways to properly use my video card, one is in a very “basic” mode (which seems to be what Akita has selected even though other puppies don’t seem able to..) and a second mode which is supposed to be “accelerated”, as this laptop has an early AGP (I think).

I’m guessing that the other puppies are somehow trying to activate the acceleration, and not managing it properly because of an incorrect driver and/or incorrect xorg.conf specs.

I have found various other posts within the puppy forum and outside forums and am trying to piece together all that info, so will post back when I feel I have found an xorg.conf and driver combo that do the trick for this laptop.

At least now I know that copying in a new xorg.conf is not enough - you have to overwrite those other TRIDENT files (which I believe are badly configured..)
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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 02:05    Post_subject: Toshiba 2670DVD Trident xorg configuration  

Hi greengeek,

Quote:
There is also another issue here: I think that there must be two ways to properly use my video card, one is in a very “basic” mode (which seems to be what Akita has selected even though other puppies don’t seem able to..) and a second mode which is supposed to be “accelerated”, as this laptop has an early AGP (I think).


I think you are right. My understanding is that most if not all video cards comply with the vesa standard (the version varies) and, as such, a vesa driver will work but only provide basic functions. Apparently, your Trident card has 3D acceleration capabilities, but to get that function, you'll need the the Trident driver in Xorg.

I don't know what kind of graphics card drivers are available in Akita. I did find this old thread here in the Discussion Forum which might be useful as there are a couple of downloads (Pets) for Trident cards. The drivers are based on Xorg 1.3 so it should work fine --I think. I assume that after installing the pet, you would run: xorgwizard then choose and search for the best match for your Trident card.

Hope this helps,
Monsie

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 12:38    Post_subject: Re: Toshiba 2670DVD Trident xorg configuration  

Monsie wrote:
I assume that after installing the pet, you would run: xorgwizard then choose and search for the best match for your Trident card.

Interesting, thanks. I downloaded those two pets and installed them, then removed all previous xorg.conf files and rebooted. The xorgwizard ran and I selected "choose" - expecting that I would now see at least a couple of Trident options (eg "TRIDENT old", "TRIDENT new" or something) but no. Only "Trident" just like before. (Of course I don't know what the pets actually did, or where I should look for the files they loaded so I'm probably doing something wrong here)

After selecting Trident, xwin would not run so I had to rerun the xorgwizard and select "probe" so that it built it's own xorg.conf and it is exactly the same format of xorg.conf as all the faulty ones. (but at least xwin runs).
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 14:31    Post_subject:  

.
I just found an interesting comment by MU, which sheds a little light on what occurs with xorg.conf

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34001&start=53
MU comment re 2 xorg.confs.jpg
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MU comment re 2 xorg.confs.jpg

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Monsie


Joined: 01 Dec 2011
Posts: 633
Location: Kamloops BC Canada

PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar 2012, 23:33    Post_subject: Toshiba 2670DVD Trident xorg configuration  

greengeek wrote:
.
I just found an interesting comment by MU, which sheds a little light on what occurs with xorg.conf

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=34001&start=53


Yes, that is an interesting post from Mark. As you pointed out earlier, it is rather confusing with so many versions of xorg.conf... which I think has to do with covering various hardware configurations when running Puppy live and/or when installing a video driver. In your case, I'm thinking that since you are using the Vesa driver, that you would want to tweak the xorg.conf-vesa file if possible. In the event that you are able to install the Trident driver, then of course you'll want to tweak that xorg.conf file.

A suggestion: why don't you analyse the driver.pet(s) so that you can identify the Trident driver files, find out where they are located, whether they should be moved or not, and, whether they are newer, older or the same as any versions you might already have, for example:

Code:
cd /root/my-documents/downloads
pet2tgz some_video-driver.pet


Then click on the tar.gz file to open it in Xarchive....
After analysing the package, and to reverse the process then do:

Code:
cd /root/my-documents/downloads
tgz2pet some_video-driver.tar.gz


One other suggestion: have a look at your Xorg.0.log file as it will give you details as to which drivers and specs are being used, and possibly any problems or errors also.

HTH,
Monsie

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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Thu 01 Nov 2012, 04:29    Post_subject:  

Some very good extra info from npierce explaining xorg.conf non-persistence here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=661718#661718
Just might help to structure an xorg.conf that is persistent and correctly configured.
(may need to borrow an xorg.conf from some other distro and reconfigure it in accordance with what Puppy is expecting). I need to come back to this later sometime.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Wed 05 Dec 2012, 14:09    Post_subject:  

Just adding a note for myself for the next time I get back to this machine:
Zenfunk mentions using the xvesa driver within xorg here:

"I have two sattelites myself. While the bios might be very forgiving, the graphics card gives me headaches each time I boot a fresh puppy. Xvesa doesn't work, trident driver in xorg doesn't too, so you have to use xvesa driver in xorg(!!!) to get it going. Wicked.
Nevertheless, nice machines."
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40226&start=37

He also says:
"OK- the xorg- toshiba issue:
not sure it works on your particular toshiba:
I selected xorg, because the xvesa only gave me a completely messed up screen (looked a bit like a tv with no antenna cable plugged in- weird).
The auto detection loaded the trident driver which I manually changed to vesa in teh xorg.config. (select 'Test' in xorgwizard, quit the test and select 'edit xorg.config manually')

So I actually run xorg with the vesa driver- don't ask me why I tried that out in the first place - but it worked for one of my toshibas.

The other toshiba I got worked with xvesa right away, so YMMV. "
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=40226&start=50
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 21:22    Post_subject:  

I think this post might be quite relevant for my machine when I can get some more testing done:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=14058
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon 07 Jan 2013, 21:36    Post_subject:  

Also this: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=14140
BarryK offers a method of locking out the hardware profile testing to help force a particular xorg.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 02 Apr 2013, 00:47    Post_subject:  

Good tute for nvidia drivers compile:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=365818#365818
Probably of no benefit with a Trident board, but I might learn something beneficial from the overall process.
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sun 15 Dec 2013, 04:03    Post_subject:  

Link to help with building xorg.conf from scratch:
http://foxyroxylinux.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=165
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 01 Jul 2014, 22:05    Post_subject:  

Just adding some links that offer some more info with setting up xorg and also turning off hardware profiling where it stops correct driver discovery(particularly with trident cyberblade):

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=34944#34944

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=5064&sid=35878eb5bf436d5372e71c739f4e3e95

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=87448#87448
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greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2596
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Sat 20 Sep 2014, 16:26    Post_subject:  

Just adding another link to a thread (miriam finding xorg.conf overwritten during xwin) that might yield some techniques i can use:
http://ns1.murga-projects.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=800099&sid=a7fa076af4544a489e31caeef9ea8ad6#800099

Also this one:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=661718
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