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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Projects
"Testing" Sensei & Sensei64
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 2180
Location: The Blue Marble

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 07:52    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
stifiling wrote:

the fatdog64 620 kernel though...a completely different ball game. In a previous thread, the argument was raised about how FatDog64 is more 'woof-like' than ArchPup was. ArchPup didn't come with rox, jwm, or the ppm...but it did come with an initrd.gz and an sfs file. FatDog64 does come with rox, jwm, and the ppm...but it doesn't come with an initrd.gz or an sfs file. So truthfully speaking, it's as far off the mark from a traditional woof-built puppy, as ArchPup was.


Slight correction, Fatdog 620, does have an SFS file... its just inside the initrd (along with the kernel sources sfs). To my knowledge Barry has never commented on 'where' the core sfs package should reside on a Puppy release. The initrd just uses xz compression vs gz compression (hence why its not initrd.gz) And to be honest, having the .gz or .xz extension isnt important. Soreally only the compression method has changed.

Thank you Q5sys for the clarification.

@stifiling,
If you need to extract the kernel from Fatdog, you can just ask rather than moan left and right about an irrelevant issue Cool
Extracting Fatdog64's kernel is easy, it especially super easy now in the latest release.
1. Get the Fatdog iso. The kernel is "vmlinuz"
2. To get the kernel modules, extract kernel-modules.sfs from Fatdog's initrd (inside the ISO). It is as easy as "cpio -i kernel-modules.sfs < /path/to/fatdog/initrd" --- kernel-modules.sfs will be extracted in the current directory. That SFS contains *all* the kernel modules and the firmware.
3. To get the kernel sources, go to http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/sfs/600 and get "kernel-source-x.x.x.sfs" where x.x.x is the kernel version (currently 3.8.7).
I am not watching this thread so don't expect me to reply here. If you need further assistance you know where to contact me Wink

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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 08:24    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
Thank you Q5sys for the clarification.


that's great it cleared it up for you, but it cleared up 0 for me. I mean, not even 1 little bit of anything he said....made FatDog64 more woof-like than ArchPup to me. They both have the same amount of differences, from a traditional woof-built puppy.

jamesbond wrote:
@stifiling,
If you need to extract the kernel from Fatdog, you can just ask rather than moan left and right about an irrelevant issue Cool
Extracting Fatdog64's kernel is easy, it especially super easy now in the latest release.
1. Get the Fatdog iso. The kernel is "vmlinuz"
2. To get the kernel modules, extract kernel-modules.sfs from Fatdog's initrd (inside the ISO). It is as easy as "cpio -i kernel-modules.sfs < /path/to/fatdog/initrd" --- kernel-modules.sfs will be extracted in the current directory. That SFS contains *all* the kernel modules and the firmware.
3. To get the kernel sources, go to http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/sfs/600 and get "kernel-source-x.x.x.sfs" where x.x.x is the kernel version (currently 3.8.7).
I am not watching this thread so don't expect me to reply here. If you need further assistance you know where to contact me Wink


thanks for the info. because yes, when i first opened the iso i had plans to use it the way i would a traditional woof-built puppy. but the first thing i thought was "Man damn! why'd they have to change it?" thanks for not putting me through the torture of having to 'read' up on the new and 'different' FatDog64.

if the kernel i'm presently using winds up a failure, i may need your assistance. so i'm hoping i'm given a warm welcome, as would be the case if it was the other way around.
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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1066

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 10:51    Post subject:  

stifiling wrote:
jamesbond wrote:
Thank you Q5sys for the clarification.


that's great it cleared it up for you, but it cleared up 0 for me. I mean, not even 1 little bit of anything he said....made FatDog64 more woof-like than ArchPup to me. They both have the same amount of differences, from a traditional woof-built puppy.


Did I make a comment in my post about those two corrections making fatdog64 more woof-like?
No, I didnt.
I had no intention of trying to convince you of fatdog64's woof-like nature or lack there of. So please do not read into my comment that I was trying to sway your opinion on the matter.I made two simple factual corrections, nothing more.

I didnt make a comment about fatdog64 being more woof-like due to those two issues, because that's not what I wanted to discuss, nor do I think those two corrections matter in the long run. Woof-like issues only matter if something is about being an 'official' release. Otherwise it means squat. I did make comments about fatdog64's woof origins in the old ArchPup thread, because that was the topic of discussion in that thread. However that discussion is over and done with and I dont think there is any decent reason to try to go through that drama again.

I just wanted to make those two simple clarifations regarding the SFS issue in Fatdog64, and the compression method.
Neither of those comments were meant to indicate any woof-like comparisson betweedn Fatdog64 and ArchPup.

I try to be a succinct as possible on forums, and say exactly what I mean and not imply anything. Implied meaning is so easily misunderstood, that I try to eschew away from it. 99% of the time, the words I write are exactly what I mean. I didnt make a woof-like comment because I didnt think it would add to the discussion about Sensei, and because I was intentionally trying not to get into a woof-like debate.
I didnt comment on it, because I had nothing to say on that issue. So please dont read into my initial comment that I was trying to imply any woof-like behavior comparison between the two, I was simply making two simple factual corrections... nothing more.

Besides, this is a thread about your work on Sensei, Its kinda silly for us to get into a discussion about the differences of two other releases that neither of us develop. lol

Hopefully I'll be able to set aside a few hours today to play around with Sensei. Are you running your own pacman repo... or just using the official sources? If you're using the official repos, are there known conflicts that I should avoid when using pacman?

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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1066

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 14:15    Post subject:  

stifiling wrote:
@Q5sys

I'd appreciate it if you'd try it out. no, the proprietary nvidia driver hasn't been compiled for it.... I know u know a lot about 64-bit puppies. If it happens to work right on your machine, and you happen to like it....it would also be appreciated if you'd compile the nvidia driver....and upload it for us.



Well I hoped it would be a simple matter. However Sensei wont boot at all on my machine. It starts to load fine, gets to where it starts alsa, cups, etc. Then black screen, nothing else. No respsonsiveness, I cant do anything.
Since there isnt a boot splash where a user can input kernel switches... I'll have to tweak the cfg file on the cd and then burn another copy to try. In order to compile the full nvidia driver I'll need to blacklist nouveau before starting.

FYI, I run dual Quadro NVS 420 Cards in my machine... and they are normally supported by the nouveau driver; dont know what conflict there might be.

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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 14:24    Post subject:  

Thanks Q5sys...for the testing and the help. really i'd like it if u'd help me perfect the system. i'm sure the interested users would be overjoyed with that as well.

at the black screen....does ctl+alt+backspace get you to a tty prompt? i've got a script in the system...that's automatically loading 'nv' for nvidia cards....need to switch that up. but if you were to maybe edit the xorg.conf file...changing the module name from nv to nouveau....and installing:

Code:
pacman -S xf86-video-nouveau


if that will get the video working. maybe even 'modprobe nouveau'.
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 14:36    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
Are you running your own pacman repo... or just using the official sources? If you're using the official repos, are there known conflicts that I should avoid when using pacman?


i'm using the official arch repos. i have one set up as well but there's only a couple things in there. it's what i'm using to be able to reinstall the /usr/include dev files as well as the /usr/share/locale files from the sendesk-xfce sfs. doing it this way will keep the system from being almost 350MB...and should be a clean and neat way to get all the dev files in. there are no known file conflicts that i'm aware of.
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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1066

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 14:38    Post subject:  

stifiling wrote:
Thanks Q5sys...for the testing and the help. really i'd like it if u'd help me perfect the system. i'm sure the interested users would be overjoyed with that as well.

at the black screen....does ctl+alt+backspace get you to a tty prompt? i've got a script in the system...that's automatically loading 'nv' for nvidia cards....need to switch that up. but if you were to maybe edit the xorg.conf file...changing the module name from nv to nouveau....and installing:

Code:
pacman -S xf86-video-nouveau


if that will get the video working. maybe even 'modprobe nouveau'.


Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.

You have to compile the nvidia drivers from shell, so it doesnt matter what x.org has configured to use. The nouveau driver cant be loaded with the kernel at all in order to compile. You have to disable it before /etc/modprobe.d is processed.

ftp://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86_64/256.44/README/commonproblems.html
See Section 8.1

I'm a big arch fan... so I hope this project flourishes.

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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 15:01    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.


what if you were to just use the main.sfs....deleting the desk and apps sfs's....and trying setting it up that way? using pacman to install xorg-server...xf86-video-nouveau....and xorg-twm, xterm.....and seeing if you can get X to start...
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Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 15:09    Post subject:  

stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote:
Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.


what if you were to just use the main.sfs....deleting the desk and apps sfs's....and trying setting it up that way? using pacman to install xorg-server...xf86-video-nouveau....and xorg-twm, xterm.....and seeing if you can get X to start...


I was using the FULL ISO... I'll try the BASE ISO and go from there.

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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 15:31    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote:
Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.


what if you were to just use the main.sfs....deleting the desk and apps sfs's....and trying setting it up that way? using pacman to install xorg-server...xf86-video-nouveau....and xorg-twm, xterm.....and seeing if you can get X to start...


I was using the FULL ISO... I'll try the BASE ISO and go from there.


the barebones iso, has the exact same sensei64-001.sfs. if u have the full...the barebones isn't needed.
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Q5sys


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PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 15:35    Post subject:  

stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote:
stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote:
Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.


what if you were to just use the main.sfs....deleting the desk and apps sfs's....and trying setting it up that way? using pacman to install xorg-server...xf86-video-nouveau....and xorg-twm, xterm.....and seeing if you can get X to start...


I was using the FULL ISO... I'll try the BASE ISO and go from there.


the barebones iso, has the exact same sensei64-001.sfs. if u have the full...the barebones isn't needed.


Ok I'm confused... the base doesnt have the apps and desk SFS packages, right?
You said to not use them... so why wouldnt i use the base ISO as my start point?

Or did you add some functionality that I missed that allows me to choose what SFS load at boot? (as tazoc has done with LHP)

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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 15:40    Post subject:  

Q5sys wrote:
stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote:
stifiling wrote:
Q5sys wrote:
Nope, couldnt drop out to shell... actually ctrl-alt-delete wouldnt work either. Had to do a hard reboot.


what if you were to just use the main.sfs....deleting the desk and apps sfs's....and trying setting it up that way? using pacman to install xorg-server...xf86-video-nouveau....and xorg-twm, xterm.....and seeing if you can get X to start...


I was using the FULL ISO... I'll try the BASE ISO and go from there.


the barebones iso, has the exact same sensei64-001.sfs. if u have the full...the barebones isn't needed.


Ok I'm confused... the base doesnt have the apps and desk SFS packages, right?
You said to not use them... so why wouldnt i use the base ISO as my start point?

Or did you add some functionality that I missed that allows me to choose what SFS load at boot? (as tazoc has done with LHP)


it's like this....with the full iso, it has senapps and sendesk present and in range so it automatically loads them.....deleting those two files, means they won't load....which gives u the barebones installations....which is what the baresones.iso has on it. only:

vmlinuz/initrd/sensei64.sfs = barebones iso
vmlinux/initrd/sensei64.sfs senapps.sfs sendesk-xfce.sfs = full iso

they're both the exact same sensei64.sfs...and both alone boots to a tty prompt.
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 16:04    Post subject:  

if u're booting directly from iso, then yes...you would need the barebones.iso. but if u've done a frugal install...then you won't need the barebones.iso.

i wanted a barebones solution to be included in the system.
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stifiling

Joined: 29 Dec 2007
Posts: 388

PostPosted: Sun 28 Apr 2013, 21:40    Post subject:  

i removed nv from, and added nouveau to Sensei64. 'hopefully' that works out better for users with nvidia cards...
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5790
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Mon 29 Apr 2013, 02:44    Post subject:  

At least on my Nvidia GeForce 7025 /nForce 630a chips we have success. Smile The latest version booted directly to the correct 1366x768 resolution with a working internet connection.

Code:
Current Operating System: Linux sensei64 3.8.5 #1 SMP Sat Apr 27 00:53:24 EDT 2013 x86_64


Code:
NOUVEAU(0): Chipset: "NVIDIA NV4c"


Late now but I'll do an install sometime the next day or two. Good job.
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