Puppy Linux Discussion Forum Forum Index Puppy Linux Discussion Forum
Puppy HOME page : puppylinux.com
"THE" alternative forum : puppylinux.info
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

The time now is Wed 17 Sep 2014, 17:51
All times are UTC - 4
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Puppylinux on Phone/Tablets: the definitive thread
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
Page 3 of 5 [73 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Author Message
Eathray

Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Thu 18 Apr 2013, 16:29    Post subject:  

I would love to see Puppy on a tablet.

As much as I love my Android, there are some issues that are just inherently frustrating about it.

1. Unless you root your device, you have very little control over the operating system. I find things running in the background and am perpetually hitting my kill app, only to have those items start up again later.

2. App developers always seem to think their app alone is worthy, and belongs on the internal memory. I have 14 gig of unused space on my sd card, but half the apps I use cannot be pushed.

3. Manufacturers and carriers are constantly adding bloat and restrictions. If you're rooted you can push or dump the bloat, but then you need the custom rom to get around the restrictions so you can use the device and service you pay for the way you would like to.

4. Rebooting into Superuser mode every time you want to do something is a pain in the butt.

5. Syncing your droid to your linux computer is often quirky. Mine mostly works but I find myself fiddling and rebooting sometimes to get things synced properly.

6. A lot of the software I would like to use on my Android is tinkertoy. I would much rather have the ability to install full packages in pet or tar form.

These are just a few frustrations I have with my Android. Like I say, I still love the thing, and it's still the only alternative to 0.99 cent eternal enslavement to Apple's ios, but the truth is... I'm just waiting for something better, Like Ubuntu Mobile, or FF OS, or an update to Red Flag on a Benq S6, or a revamped web os, with a decent community behind it...

So why the heck not puppy?????

Yah, we focus on older hardware, but you can get an old outdated Pantech on eBay right now for about $50.00 bucks...

Couldn't we do something with some older tablets that can be picked up for cheap?

If I had the development skills... I'd just start doing it.

Eathray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1049

PostPosted: Sat 20 Apr 2013, 11:53    Post subject:  

Eathray wrote:
So why the heck not puppy?????

Yah, we focus on older hardware, but you can get an old outdated Pantech on eBay right now for about $50.00 bucks...

Couldn't we do something with some older tablets that can be picked up for cheap?

If I had the development skills... I'd just start doing it.

Eathray


I'm not saying puppy on a tablet is impossible. With enough time, effort, and developers we could accomplish anything. But there is the problem. We dont have enough developers to put in enough time to make it happen.
I thought about Puppy on a tablet for a while... I think most people have. But once I started to actually look at what it would require I realized its unfeasible for our community. (my opinion)

Who's going to write the hardware drivers?
Who's going to write the custom display server?
Who's going to re-code all the apps so they can take advantage of touch input?

I wish we had the skill and manpower to make this happen, but we simply dont. We (as a community) haven't even gotten a decent package management solution worked out. Every version has their own versions. That's because of Puppy's awesome fork-ability, so its not a bad thing. But the developers have yet to agree on a single framework. Sure we have the PPM, but its got what... maybe 100 packages in it depending on what version you are using. Debian has ~40,000 packages in their repo, OpenSuse has ~40,000 official, and Arch has like ~10,000 official and ~40,000 AUR.

As cool as it may be to have puppy on a tablet, we just dont have the manpower and ability to pull off such a massive project. Hey I wish we had that level of skill hanging out around here bored and wanting something to do. I would love to learn from those guys. This is not a slight to any of the developers we have here. We have some amazing developers. But developing a distro... and developing hardware drivers are two completely different skill levels.

_________________



My PC is for sale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Eathray

Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr 2013, 00:42    Post subject:  

Q5sys,

I understand.

My main point was to identify reasons why it would be great to have puppy on a tablet, and what I would like it to do (a question from earlier in the thread).

I wanted to do this by pointing out some of the inherent problems with the Android way of things... It reminds me of a train. Android itself is the locomotive pulling along an endless line of applications like box-cars. Even though I love it, and use it daily, there are some aspects of it that are simply hokey.

I wonder... what about the idea of compiling puppy with a linux platform that's already on a tablet, such as how Puppy Lucid was compiled with binaries(?) and whatever with Ubuntu Lucid?

I ask because there are in fact a few tablets out there that run Linux... for example, Benq S6 runs Red Flag. It is an open source Linux distro, but is in dire need of an update. Nokia also has a few Linux tablets... N810 has been kind of popular. MID has a quad-core that has Android and Linux 3.4 (not identifying a distro) and there's others.

I know it would be tablet specific, but would that be more doable than starting from scratch?

Just thinking.

Eathray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Eathray

Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 498

PostPosted: Sun 21 Apr 2013, 18:59    Post subject:  

Well, I just found out that a group has made a true linux tablet...

It's called Pengpod. They are selling a variety of true Linux devices including 7" and 10" tablets.

This is the link:

http://www.pengpod.com/

These guys had a goal to raise 40k... they ended up exceeding to 70k and were able to release their tablets in January 2013.

Maybe this will give our community some thoughts or inspiration?

I don't know. Just thought I'd make ya'll aware of it.

Eathray
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1049

PostPosted: Sat 01 Jun 2013, 17:57    Post subject:  

Eathray wrote:
I wonder... what about the idea of compiling puppy with a linux platform that's already on a tablet, such as how Puppy Lucid was compiled with binaries(?) and whatever with Ubuntu Lucid?

I ask because there are in fact a few tablets out there that run Linux... for example, Benq S6 runs Red Flag. It is an open source Linux distro, but is in dire need of an update. Nokia also has a few Linux tablets... N810 has been kind of popular. MID has a quad-core that has Android and Linux 3.4 (not identifying a distro) and there's others.

Just thinking.

Eathray


Keep thinking, cause its these ideas that will help us if we ever make it happen. There are some important things to keep in mind.

What is Puppy at its core? At its core is a methodology and a technique for making linux work on older computers through some technical processes.
Those techniques include the following:
A) The ability to run an entire system from ram and not have to deal with HARDDISK I/O
B) The ability to run an Live CD from ram and not have to deal with CDROM I/O. (Applies to DVD as well)
C) The ability to have a frugal install where all changes are saved to a single file on a Harddisk or USB device
D) The ability to save your changes back to a CD/DVD for use as a persistant Live CD.

This is what makes puppylinux, what it is.
Right off the bat you can see that B, and D are pointless when it comes to a tablet. No one is going to try to boot a tablet from a optical disk. So we can discard those.
That leaves us with A and C.
Lets look at A for a second. Tablets do not have spinning hard disks, they operate completely from SSD or Flash memory on the mainboard. (more increasingly SSD) Due to this they are not affected by the same I/O delay as typical hard disks. So Puppies technique for speeding up a system in that way is pointless as well.
That leaves us with D. Saving changes via a frugal install. If the same technique were used, you'd have a single file on your tablet that contained all your personal changes.
This is possible, but it would be much easier to take an existing OS and simply modify it for that purpose, than to try to rebuild Puppy.

The applications you use on Puppy: Seamonkey, Rox, Gftp, Firefox, JWM, etc. Those are NOT Puppy Linux. Those are simply programs which puppy uses. You can take these and install them on ANY linux distro. In fact I have a Arch install, with the exact same program selection as Slacko 5.3. I did this to test the speed difference between the two. That doesnt make that install Puppy, because its Arch with the typical applications that Puppy Linux uses.

So trying to take binaries from a distro that's already on a tablet would work. But it wouldn't be puppy anymore than it is as it exists on the tablet from the factory.

If all you want is a tablet with the same applications and interface as what you are used to on PuppyLinux... You can just buy a table that runs whatever Linux OS, and install/compile them. But that wont make it Puppy.

_________________



My PC is for sale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
nooby

Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 10557
Location: SwedenEurope

PostPosted: Sun 02 Jun 2013, 06:57    Post subject:  

So if I get anything at all the compromise would be
to be able to use Android as if it where Puppy Linux.
to be the Boss instead the slave of Android.
That way one could use all the apps for Android
but stop those apps from doing nasty things?

To be in control over the OS. So one would support
all those Root Android guys out there on internet?

But I know too little to even get what I just wrote. Smile

_________________
I use Google Search on Puppy Forum
not an ideal solution though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1049

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun 2013, 16:44    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
So if I get anything at all the compromise would be
to be able to use Android as if it where Puppy Linux.
to be the Boss instead the slave of Android.
That way one could use all the apps for Android
but stop those apps from doing nasty things?

To be in control over the OS. So one would support
all those Root Android guys out there on internet?

But I know too little to even get what I just wrote. Smile


Well its easy enough on most devices to root your android. And google isnt making it extra difficult anymore, so that's good. But rooting only gets you so much. You're still locked down by the Google UI, and what apps are released for it.

_________________



My PC is for sale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
AwesomesaurusRex


Joined: 03 Jun 2013
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Mon 03 Jun 2013, 16:46    Post subject:  

Eathray wrote:
Well, I just found out that a group has made a true linux tablet...

It's called Pengpod. They are selling a variety of true Linux devices including 7" and 10" tablets.

This is the link:

http://www.pengpod.com/

These guys had a goal to raise 40k... they ended up exceeding to 70k and were able to release their tablets in January 2013.

Maybe this will give our community some thoughts or inspiration?

I don't know. Just thought I'd make ya'll aware of it.

Eathray

My best friends brother bought one of those PengPods and has the plasma active stuff on there. It works but its pretty horrid. Its clunky to use. Its slow. Its not 'smooth' in any way. He put bodhi on there too, but the touch was horrible to use so we ended up plugging a mouse into it.
ill stick with my ipad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
qkall

Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun 2013, 21:04    Post subject:  

this is a totally ignorant statement/question -

but couldn't you get a nexus 7 and build puppy from ubuntu's nexus 7 packages? i mean isn't that teh design of woof?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1049

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun 2013, 21:24    Post subject:  

qkall wrote:
this is a totally ignorant statement/question -

but couldn't you get a nexus 7 and build puppy from ubuntu's nexus 7 packages? i mean isn't that teh design of woof?


If I understand what you're asking, the answer is No.

Ubuntu Touch is NOT the same as Ubuntu the desktop OS.
Ubuntu Touch is just a glorified themed Android Experience with an Ubuntu install chrooted into the FS.
Apps for the ubuntu desktop OS will not run on ubuntu touch.

But lets go ahead for a moment and lets say it were possible. What would be the point? Android runs from Memory as it is. So there's no benefit like what Puppy gives you from running from a live CD/DVD or as a frugral install. Nothing Puppy offers the Desktop Linux Experience is of any good or any benefit on a tablet. Read 4 posts above yours. I dont know if you saw this or not, but if you did... What benefit are you hoping to achieve? Perhaps I'm missing something that you are thinking of.

_________________



My PC is for sale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
qkall

Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Thu 06 Jun 2013, 21:37    Post subject:  

I wasn't talking about Ubuntu touch I meant the desktop builds
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
greengeek

Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 2539
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013, 03:18    Post subject:  

nooby wrote:
to be able to use Android as if it where Puppy Linux.
to be the Boss instead the slave of Android.

Yes - the ability to remove any app or function that I didn't want, and the ability to add any app or function that I DID want - now that is the essence of what I believe Puppy Linux gives me.

To be the Boss, instead of the Slave. Well put nooby.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
stiginge


Joined: 22 Mar 2007
Posts: 420
Location: Kerry, Ireland

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013, 14:55    Post subject:  

Is it possible to access the memory on my android smartphone from a computer running puppy? I've tried and no smartphone drive shows in pmount on reboot after plugging in my smartphone via usb...
_________________
Buy silver, crash JPMorgan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
qkall

Joined: 04 Dec 2007
Posts: 75

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013, 17:10    Post subject:  

to clarify - ubuntu 13.04 is quite fleshed out for the nexus 7 at this point and doesn't rely on android but rather ubuntu-arm repos. that said couldn't you build woof?

http://imgur.com/a/PRH0j
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Q5sys


Joined: 11 Dec 2008
Posts: 1049

PostPosted: Fri 07 Jun 2013, 19:33    Post subject:  

qkall wrote:
to clarify - ubuntu 13.04 is quite fleshed out for the nexus 7 at this point and doesn't rely on android but rather ubuntu-arm repos. that said couldn't you build woof?

http://imgur.com/a/PRH0j



Hmm... I was unware of that, thanks for bringing that to my attention. I'll have to look into it further. But as I said previously, even if it was created. What benefit does Puppy give you over Ubuntu?

_________________



My PC is for sale
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message 
Display posts from previous:   Sort by:   
Page 3 of 5 [73 Posts]   Goto page: Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 Next
Post new topic   Reply to topic View previous topic :: View next topic
 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Suggestions
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
[ Time: 0.1064s ][ Queries: 13 (0.0065s) ][ GZIP on ]