Icepipes - my pipe menus collection for icewm

Window managers, icon programs, widgets, etc.
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musher0
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#21 Post by musher0 »

Nope, no icons...
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Nathan F
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#22 Post by Nathan F »

I will take a peek at your script of course. Internationalisation is a good thing, and I always try to provision for it eventually. For now I've just been working on basic function.

Gotta run. @work...
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#23 Post by Nathan F »

Two more thoughts occurred to me.

1) It would be great to have a tool to automatically sync ROX bookmarks and gtk bookmarks.

2) I'm annoyed about the d**n icons. I'll investigate it, but it would be nice to have standard icon names in Puppy someday.
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musher0
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#24 Post by musher0 »

Sorry, everyone.

I've removed the script and contribution that I had previously put here, since it appears that outside contributions are not needed or are swallowed into the "Nathan F" corpus.

Regards.

musher0
Last edited by musher0 on Wed 24 Jul 2013, 20:34, edited 1 time in total.
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#25 Post by Nathan F »

On the subject of icons...

I've been examining what Puppy includes for icons by default. A lot of it is just what I remember from years back. Even the old fvwm95 icons that I remember from Puppy 101 or so, when I first started fooling with it.

The good news is that the cut-down "themes" in /usr/local/lib/X11/themes have a good, workable selection. The bad news is that the naming conventions are non-standard. But I have thoughts for how to fix it (fix it from my perspective anyway).

A "normal" icon theme for gtk+ or for KDE/QT for that matter, has subdirectories for the different sizes of icons, and inside are more subdirectories for categories (apps, actions, places, mimetypes to name a few). This could be mimiced in Puppy by creating skeleton directories inside the icon "themes" and symlinking the icons into the appropriate directories, with the more "official" names that most apps expect. It would be fairly straightforward to script.

That would probably be enough to cover the missing menu icons, and it might even make it possible to use the icons that Puppy includes to theme gtk apps somewhat, although I doubt there's enough there for full coverage.

What I really want to avoid doing is making any of my scripts "Puppy Only" by adopting Puppy naming conventions for the icons. No offense intended.
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#26 Post by Nathan F »

Question, since I've got rox bookmark support implemented now.

Would it make better sense to have the ROX-Filer bookmarks always open in ROX-Filer, or use whatever the default filemanager is set to?

Going to stop working for the rest of the day, and take my son out to spend some time together.
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#27 Post by musher0 »

Nathan F wrote:Question, since I've got rox bookmark support implemented now.
(...)
"You've got bookmark support implemented now"? Therefore it seems that you do not need outside contributions.

I will therefore remove the script I contributed earlier and let you lure other fishes.

Good luck doing things on your own.

Regards.

musher0
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#28 Post by Nathan F »

OK, that was an unexpected response. Maybe I'm oblivious?

I will give it one shot at placating you. I meant no offense. If you're upset because you think I took your code without credit, I didn't. I implemented my own. If you're upset that I didn't use your contribution, I'm sorry. I'm writing this and reserve the right to implement things my own way.

I'd rather not leave it thinking I just made an enemy though. If I come off as insensitive please understand that I live a busy and stressful life, as I'm sure a lot of other people do. I usually have a number of other things on my mind while typing and hitting send. So maybe I went wrong somewhere, and if so please feel free to enlighten me, but for the most part I'm just puzzled at the moment.
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simargl

#29 Post by simargl »

.
Last edited by simargl on Sun 01 Sep 2013, 15:24, edited 1 time in total.

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#30 Post by Nathan F »

I don't understand why you bother at all
I didn't for quite some time. Kinda missed it.

I get everything you're saying. I've also been around long enough to know reasons for a lot of what you may only have guesses for.

ROX-Filer is a pretty old app. It's gtk+1xx ported over to gtk+2xx. It doesn't really re-implement anything. It had implementations of it's own for things that other apps didn't have at the time, or hadn't been standardised yet. That's why it has it's own internal mechanisms for bookmarks, mime-handling, and whatnot. It makes it quirky, but it also has features I miss in -every- other filemanager.

Similarly, the icons weren't "moved" to /usr/local/lib/X11. When I started using Puppy it had fvwm95 and jwm was a new experimental option. Fvwm95 had it's icons in /usr/local/lib/X11, and since Barry was re-using the icons all over the place he kept them there when fvwm left. It looks like a major kludge now I agree.

It's all quirky, but it's still useful.
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#31 Post by Nathan F »

By the way, if you puy .desktop files on the rox pinboard then their icons will follow the gtk theme.

I put in a feature request on the rox mailing list a long time back to allow specifying an icon in AppInfo.xml, when creating AppDir's. Currently the icon can only be set by placing an icon file inside and naming it .DirIcon. I'm pretty sure the project was already dying by that time though, and the request wasn't even acknowledged. The latest release is now pretty old in the tooth. Which is a crying shame.
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musher0
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#32 Post by musher0 »

Hello, Nathan F.

Upon checking, I re-discovered that the icon path problem is a non problem in icewm. Icewm provides a distro-neutral way of specifying icon paths. You simply specify your icon path(s) in ~/.icewm/prefoverride. For example:

Code: Select all

#prefoverride

#  Icon search path (colon separated)
 IconPath="/usr/local/lib/X11/pixmaps:/usr/local/lib/X11/mini-icons:/usr/share/pixmaps:/usr/share/icons/hicolor/16x16/apps:/usr/share/icons/hicolor/48x48/apps"

(...)
One should read the icewm manual before complaining about any distro's particular placement of its icons.

If you find fault with one distro, to be fair, you must complain about all of them. If you complain about Puppy's icon placement, you must also complain about Debian's way of throwing most menu items in the "Other" category, about the the fact that Scientific Linux Live provides no programs to speak of (only a browser), about the fact that Arch is not for the general public, about the fact that Fedora's atrocious LVM approach destroys anything non-Fedora on the disks without proper warning, and so on, and so forth.

A good critic maintains perspective. Otherwise, it's just ideology, or bone-picking, or revenge, or some such basic instinct.

No distro follows the ideal Linux model. Period. Don't throw BK and Puppy to the lions for some frivolous reason. If you do, you may some day end up between their teeth as well.

As to "enlightening" you, this: I work best when task-centered or community-centered. On the other hand, you use the 1st person singular a lot, and do not seem keen on maintaining a dialogue: you ask questions on this thread when you seem to already have your answers. IMO, there is no point anymore in contributing to this thread.

Regards.

musher0
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#33 Post by Nathan F »

You do realize that you basically just told me to rtfm?

Which I have, by the way. The issue is not icon paths, and not icewm, but icon naming IN PUPPY. When choosing names for icons to display I chose basic/generic icon names that are expected to be present - everywhere except in Puppy. I'm not willing to adjust my icon naming to what puppy uses as it would break the scripts on virtually every other distro or os. I am willing to help implement symlinks that would help make Puppy more compatible with other distros and programs, including mine, without breaking anything internal to Puppy. But if the main response is flaming, maybe it's better if I just stop now.

I'm also not trying to trash Puppy or Barry. I have an enormous amount of respect for both. But I also see issues here and there and don't feel a need to gloss over them or tout them as "features". Barry is a great guy and incredibly creative. He also loves reinventing the wheel. Sometimes this is great and his solutions are astoundingly simple, other times it creates unforeseen complications. If my telling it like I see it is a bad thing, maybe your doing the same towards me is too...

You seem very intent on seeing me as a bad guy, but have misunderstood quite a few things all along so far. Maybe I could communicate better. But the fact that your tone continues to be accusatory is not encouraging me here. To the best of my knowledge I haven't criticized you in this entire thread, until this post. On the other hand, you have several times now accused me of being self centered in various ways. I'm not going to continue after this post because it's just plain bad etiquette to air out personal grievance, but I'm not going to leave all your comments about my "bad behavior" and supposed self centered attitude up for all the world to see without saying something back. Not when all I was trying to do was post something I thought might be useful, and then do some revision in order to satisfy other's needs and wishlists.

For the record, what I said about syncing rox bookmarks with gtk bookmarks had nothing to do with wanting code to add rox bookmarks to a pipemenu. It was all about the fact that rox has it's own bookmark implementation which is separate and incompatible with gtk bookmarks, so your gtk bookmarks don't show up in rox and your rox bookmarks don't show up in -any- other gtk app. What I was expressing was that it would be nice to have a program to merge the two. You completely misunderstood what I wrote and posted some code that I then chose not to use, because I already had a solution to the problem you -thought- I was asking about in mind and it was, in my opinion, more elegant. So then you took offense and expressed it quite publicly. I could just as easily accuse you of being an egomaniac for getting your feathers all ruffled over that.

My last word (really) is this: you say you have nothing more to contribute to this thread. I say maybe you're right and if it's a choice between you continuing to cop an attitude or just going away, I'd rather you just went away. However, if you're able to get back to civility then SO AM I and I'd much prefer that option. I don't hold grudges.

That is all.
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#34 Post by musher0 »

Hello.

Thanks for your frank reply.

With pekplaces.sh, you obviously have succeeded in 4,15 Kb where the 691 Kb pekwm_ls_menu has fallen short. (Please see https://projects.pekdon.net/projects/11). Your pekplaces script is as slow as molasses at this point (at least on this older computer) and the sub-directories listing certainly needs refinements (the menu cannot remain so clogged; proper sub-menus listings need to be implemented), but basically it works.

Thus, you are not the free-rider the wording of some of your messages led me to perceive you were. What threw me off if that you have not indicated whether you had consulted / reviewed any previous attempts at what you presenting.

Hopefully you already know that some of what you are presenting has been done or at least attempted, that people in or close to the pekwm community have suggested scripts with the same goals as yours. A single line comparing your take with theirs would have worked wonders in removing obstacles to communication, in my mind anyway.

From that context and perceived standpoint, maybe you can now understand why I did indeed tell you to read the fabulous manual.

I can only observe that our communication styles are quite different and end up being oppositional. For the time being, I have no wish of refining that analysis to discover whether that "angular" communication has generational, cultural, methodological or other roots.

Maybe our exchanges will be more fruitful at a later time. For now, I'll leave it at that and get out of your way.

Regards.
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#35 Post by Nathan F »

Honest feedback there, that is appreciated. Maybe we're not friends yet, but it seems like progress. Thank you.

A couple small points relating to the technical details.

There's no way it's going to be fast implemented in the shell, particularly if you try to browse the entire filesystem. This is for those not wishing to install python|boost or whatever other odd libs and thus enter dependency and upgrade hell. You can also disable a couple features and make it behave more like the gnome2 places menu, which was more along the lines of the original intent. That in itself should make it feel snappier.

My other comment would be that yes, I am aware of a number of other implementations. In fact I use a directory browser in openbox created by Xyne that is quite a bit faster than mine and packs in a few more features to boot. The point, once again, was to try to do it completely in the shell.
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