- AMD 64bit
- Intel 64bit
- Single Core
- Multicore
- Puppy Linus 32bit distro(s)
- FATDOG or LightHOUSE 64bit distro(s)
This thread
- is an appeal for useful information about 64bit platforms and the Puppy Linux that runs on this hardware-motherboard combinations.
- intends to dispel much emotion from the reality of the hardware and what the OS does in using it.
- educate Puppy Forum Discussion members thru collaboration and collection of facts versus "much emotion" that can cause distress when it comes from the uninformed.
Firstly, lets go all the way back to Pre-PentiumPro when the Intels, AMDs, IBMs, HPs, Fujitsu, MSs, etc look out over the horizon and planned for the advent of Multimedia processing needs as well as the scientific community's data management needs with the burgeoning communities of humans that will be moving mankind forward.
They planned an interim and a longer range solution to address those needs. It became known as PAE in shorten time span and 64bit for the further-out time span.
PAE, either AMDs or Intels, basically allows the OS to use a new hardware reference to memory pages existing in RAM. It is a replacement for the "normal" hardware memory reference of RAM pages (called frames). That's it, folks. Nothing fancy, no mirrors, no sorcery, just giving the OS page frame reference to getting "stuff" stored in the RAM frames to the CPU(s).
There has been many cries to needing or using RAM during our lifetime by people as they expound about whether there is need or etc. This is emotional, to me, as the FACT is that the hardware vendors have paved the way, no matter whether you want to use it or not. And, further, since its in hardware, they did it so such that the time to reference a RAM frame is the same...whether you use it or not!
That's the fact. So for about 16 years, the ability to reference RAM on a single platform in 32bit mode has been there whether the OS used the old way or the 16 year old newer way!
2005
Lets fast forward 10 years later when AMD, first, Intel, followed, began generally providing business and customer 64bit PCs. In their implementations, each of them did the exact same thing that they did 10 years earlier. Gave you and I a way to use EITHER the 32bit way or the 64bit way. Very few people stopped long enough to compare the similarity between how this was delivered to us. Shame, because, had we done so, we might have learned the obvious.
What they provided here is a fact of life (ur, manufacturing). And they do not care which of these you choose to purchase or use.
So, even today, there are many who continue to ignore the obvious nature of the landscape "as they expound about whether there is need or etc. This is emotional, to me, as the FACT is that the hardware vendors have paved the way, no matter whether you want to use it or not."
I have been fortunate enough to have done comparative testing with customers on several vendor systems over the years in their benchmark centers. What's significant about the PC arena is that there has never been shown to have encountered a negative impact on the use of the 32bit PAE OSs when comparing it against non-PAE.
Further, there has NOT been a single report that has shown a general degradation in overall performance of a 32bit versus 64 bit OS on the same 64bit platform.
So we are here in the 21st Century battling the same demons from the last century. ....Emotions!
My question for all of us, is whether we feel its right for us to make attempts to persuade or dissuade a distro developer to not use new technology if there is little to no impact on either behavior or performance on his/her's Puppy deliverable.
There was a report earlier last month on the forum about a remark that Linus Tovalds made. When reading and taking his remark into context, he was making a matter of fact statement that was intending to discourage those who have been trying to get him to continue 32bit life of Linux....when to him, the world is going 64bit and greater. I AGREE WITH HIM! So asking that he continue to do more with32bit via PAE with the limited resources and the current direction, I have to take his side and say something along the same lines. .."I have already addressed 32bit. I do intend to use my precious resources on the location of where the world is and the direction where its going."
32bit Puppy does a significant contribution to all. It provides the best overall general purpose desktop solution that anyone can have on a 32bit platform. It satifies 32bit PCs from 64MB RAM (older versons) to 64GB RAM (Barry's Drake and Barry's RACY). It uses older 32bit RAM frames references and PAE RAM frame references as it intends to satify all 32bit PC needs no matter how little or how much RAM you have. You can find a PUP in this community to address your platforms peripherals, CPU, and RAM!
64bit versions; namely FATDOG and LightHOUSE64, are addressing those PCs built since 2006, which have 64bit CPUs on their motherboards. This class of PCs comes with DVD burners, and RAM sizes beginning at 512MB RAM and can grow to a size that I cannot conceive. These platforms are capable of providing file system performance that is unparalleled.
ISO size
Many people in the Puppy community are unaware of the ISO size issue and why it exist. The ISO size has being in the amount of data that is transferred from a website to your PC so that you can burn a CD or a DVD to start your Puppy. In many parts of the world this is VERY very important because their connection with the internet is extremely slow. Working off a dial-up modem has many challenges to uploading and downloading information from the internet.
Next, the CD/DVD when booting will need to "expand" the OS from that media into the system's RAM + Swap. But, in every case, thus far, I have found that once the system is booted on desktop, the running OS has never been more than the ISO's size.
This is the fact. Everyone of us can go look for themselves at the summary screen provided by the Hardinfo Tool that is provided in almost every Puppy built.
Puppy does one GREAT-GREAT thing with the remaining RAM that exist in your PC. He uses it for the "FILE SYSTEM" of the running Puppy. Thus Puppy gives you about the fastest "disk" drive that you could only die for. I am amazed at the many persons I've found (including a couple distro developers) who are not aware of this. Further, they sometimes are unaware of the beauty in how the OS works with SWAP for a truly wonderful user experience.
ISO size has little to do with your system's performance. Your system's performance is not (and never has been determined by the size of ANY program). The SIZE of a program is NOT the determinant. The determinant is the path length necessary to carry out a useful operation! Many also are not aware of this as they merely point at the size of something as if it is bad. Its NOT if it gives every user a satisfactory level of useful experience This is the same as your deciding if you want the comfort of a Bentley or you want the teeth rattling ride-speed of an Ferrari. The user experience is different for each and its up to the distro designer to select the products that meets their OTB reference point(s). They do all of us a favor by getting us to a starting point so that we can enjoy and expand the delivered desktop experience (assuming RAM availability to do so)
Another item on note is that for any system to reference a frame at the lower end of RAM, in the middle of all of your RAM, or the very last frame of your RAM, the access time is EXACTLY THE SAME! This is a fact that I think most understand, but, its important to note.
A Summary
- Every 64bit system has basically 2 benefits over most 32bit PCs that were purchased; namely bus (64bit) and RAM.
- Though, very rare, some 64bit and some 32bit PCs were built without PAE
- Except for Itanium (Intel) all 64bit PCs can run 32bit OSs AND 64bit OSs.
This thread intends to be a collaboration. All information you contribute should intend to help us all. And, if referencing other website's info, please summarize with your reference.
When we understand the history and the facts, we are in a much better position to provide assistance to the Distro Developers who work very hard to provide their services to us. They need us to understand as much as we can about what they are trying to do for us.
Hope this helps.
P.S. This thread intends, neither, to discourage or encourage how the community exercises their PCs. This thread merely attempts to separate some of the emotion from the facts of the distros we see in Puppyland. It should give anyone a realistic understanding on history and simple usage of our PCs as we select what to pay attention to when selecting a PUP.
I hope these intent parameters, mentioned, makes clear this thread's OTB objective.