How to make a tweaked Puppy optical banking disk? (Solved)

Discuss anything specific to using Puppy on a multi-session disk
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Jasper

#21 Post by Jasper »

Hi Sylvander,

Three comments:

(1) Lucid, Slacko, Precise (and any close derivatives) will almost certainly support Multi-session-CD/DVD. Many other puplets either may not, or do not.

(2) Using Precise 5.6.1 click the top-left desktop file icon, then click the top-left green Up-arrow, then the top-left directory is "archive".

(3) Your trick is the one you promoted to avoid the spurious reboot/restart error message after using a desktop save icon.

Sylvander
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#22 Post by Sylvander »

1. All 3 of your comments understood. :D

2. So what's special about the /archive directory?
You say that directory [and its contents] don't get loaded into RAM, and therefore don't increase boot time.
I thought that when using a multi-session DVD E-V-E-R-Y-T-H-I-N-G [normally] gets loaded into RAM.
No?

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Flash
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#23 Post by Flash »

Sylvander, try it. Boot one of your multisession Puppies, put a file or folder in /archive, then shut down, saving the session. When next you boot, look in /archive to see what's there. There shouldn't be anything but a readme file. What you put in /archive is in the last session saved on the multisession disk. You can see it by mounting the disk, then looking in the session you saved after you put that special file in /archive.

This means you have to search through every saved session on the disk to find that certain special file you put in /archive. There is a better way. Make a folder called Archive and put your special file in it, then use Pburn to burn only that Archive folder to your multisession Puppy disk (as a session.) Keep doing the same thing with an Archive folder when you want to save something on the disk but not load it into RAM when Puppy boots, such as .pets for large programs you don't use very often. Multisession Puppy will ignore the Archive folders on the disk when it boots. When you mount the multisession disk, you will see like magic one Archive folder or session no matter how many of them Pburn put on the disk, and inside it will be all the stuff from all the Archive folders you burned on the disk.

You can also do this from the command line. Years ago I detailed how to do that somewhere in the forum, either the How-to section or the Multisession section, I forget.

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#24 Post by Sylvander »

Wow, it's cool to be able to do that. :D
Really useful if/when it's needed.
If I had no other storage devices that would be vital.
Or if I was working on the move, and didn't want to carry other storage devices [Flash Drive?] around.
I don't need to use it though, so I guess I won't.

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tallboy
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#25 Post by tallboy »

Sylvander, you may also get some additional input by perusing this thread, I guess it is the thread Flash referred to.

Save directories to DVD+RW as sessions, using growisofs
I actually store seldom used .pets in such sessions, and install them in seconds if needed, without the need for a net connection or separate storage. As they are installed to RAM, they are gone again after shutdown, unless you do a normal save. When using the genealogy program Gramps, I always save the data dir .gramps to the DVD as described in the thread, it will not be loaded at bootup, but I will have all the info available when needed. This is similar to the /Archive solution described by Flash, you can actually name the directory as you please, any session not placed (or linked) within the directory where the boot files are, will not be loaded at bootup. Barry K. is a genious!

BTW, some puppys - like Lucid_5.2.8, come without an /archive directory. Then you can just create it, and puppy behaves as it should, by not loading it's contents at bootup.

If I have nothing to save, I just turn off the PC when I'm finished, no need to spend time going through the save dialogs.
That may be different if you have an .sfs on the HD that require a normal shutdown, someone else must comment on that.

tallboy
True freedom is a live Puppy on a multisession CD/DVD.

Sylvander
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#26 Post by Sylvander »

@tallboy
1. "Sylvander, you may also get some additional input by perusing this thread:"
Whoa, you're going too fast for me!
Good idea to post the thread; I may come back, click the link, and read [and understand?] the thread.
Don't yet understand what it is to "merge a directory".
It's the "merge" bit I fail to grasp.
If you "merge" 2 folders, each with different file contents, do you end with ALL the files in the 1 folder of that name, and in that location?
See what you've done?
Now I need to go lie down in a darkened room. :wink:

2. "I only use CD-R or DVD-R, and usually only after remastering them"
I understand that remastering includes everything [the latest state of the running session?]...
But I don't have a mental image of the totality.
e.g. When I remastered a Puppy, the end result did NOT include all my tweaks.
I was disappointed.
What had I done wrong?

3. "If you only need a browser and possibly a calculator or banking program"
For me...
One of the essentials is WINE, because [in all my Puppies, but ESPECIALLY a banking Puppy] I use a Windows exe = "Acerose Password Vault".
Had it for years, and it holds All of my URL's, usernames, passwords, security info, etc.

4. By-the-way, I made a [64-bit] "Lighthouse64-6.02-B2" DVD+RW multi-session disk.
Been having trouble with it.
When I try to save...
Either during the session, or at shutdown/reboot...
It gives a failure warning, and says it needs to make a new [2nd] disk, and the disk MUST be blank.
One time, it then failed to write anything to the disk; other times it successfully writes a new disk that works OK.
But the 1st disk has little used space [almost empty], so why the failure to save to a new folder on the 1st disk?
I have 1 successful [banking] DVD+RW holding "Precise-5.6.1"...

5. If I succeeded in making a functioning "Lighthouse64-6.02-B2" banking DVD+RW multi-session...
[Or some other Puppy that I don't normally use]
I could take the Precise banking DVD+RW out of use, and so could place the precisesave back on the internal HDD, and be able to use my existing "Precise-5.6.1-ataflash", or make a new "Precise-5.7.1-ataflash" with matching new precisesave.

Jasper

#27 Post by Jasper »

Hi Sylvander,


How long does it take you to multi-boot now?

Then how long does it take to boot entirely from your DVD+RW (by temporarily renaming the sfs copy on your hard drive)?

As regards your security question in another thread - your hd/partitiom holding the sfs isn't automatically mounted after booting - so it would seem hard for malware to unpack, change, then repack the sfs, but you decide if you want to save a few boot seconds and/or persevere with Lighthouse.

--------------

Merge - just test for yourself - it would take 10 minutes at the outside - and you cannot easily ruin a rewritable DVD.

However, since you said you have no interest in storing anything in an archive directory (or more importantly any other directory) why worry about "merging"?

--------------

It does seem, to me, to be overkill to install Wine just to hold any banking password.

--------------

After a few tries. I’m also a failure at remastering - but as success might save some 30 seconds a day and it takes me about an hour to remaster - I don’t retry very often.

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#28 Post by Sylvander »

@Jasper
1. "How long does it take you to multi-boot now?"
Do you mean "how long to boot a multi-session DVD+RW that uses a copy of its SFS file held on the internal HDD".
Yes?
Assuming so:
I've not yet ever seen one of my multi-session DVD+RW Puppies use the SFS held on the internal HDD.
I believe I deliberately placed a copy of the SFS file on the internal HDD, and watched during boot to see if it was used, but it never was.

2. "Then how long does it take to boot entirely from your DVD+RW"
It takes MUCH longer than an ordinary CD-RW Puppy that DOES use the SFS+pupsave on the internal HDD.
The time it takes to load the folders...is toooo long.
The time it takes to load the SFS on the optical disk takes too long also.
But I could live with those delays methinks; I'd just go do other things while the loading takes place.
And once loaded, it's BLAZING FAST! :D

3. "As regards your security question in another thread - your hd/partitiom holding the sfs isn't automatically mounted after booting - so it would seem hard for malware to unpack, change, then repack the sfs, but you decide..."
That's GOOD NEWS! :D
Plus, if I suspected it may have been messed with, I could just delete it, and replace it with a new/good copy.

4. "However, since you said you have no interest in storing anything in an archive directory (or more importantly any other directory) why worry about "merging"?"
Well...
It's always nice to know about that, because who knows what the future holds; perhaps one day I may have a pressing need for that.
I do store stuff in other directories...
Small stuff on the Puppies internal file system.
Big stuff, or things I want to be accessible to all other Puppies I store outside of the Puppies file system.
Probably on external HDD's or Flash Drives, but possibly on the internal HDD.

5. "It does seem, to me, to be overkill to install Wine just to hold any banking password."
I agree, eccept it's NOT only my banking password etc.
It's a HUGE list of multiple info.
And then, what's the alternative?
I MUST have access to [aaallll that stuff] in my "Acerose Password Vault" [APV]...
Probably in EVERY Puppy I use.
And one advantage is...
I CAN access it from EVERY Puppy, because it runs as a PORTABLE program.
Never found it to fail.
Was a time I ran it ONLY using Windows...
Then I ran it using both Windows, and ALL Puppies.
Now only in all my Puppies.

Jasper

#29 Post by Jasper »

Hi Sylvander,

You don't have your engineer's hat on this week and it seems very few of my comments have been either well understood or useful to you.

I assume your banking-only-DVD takes less than four minutes to load - as some people and puppies can run a mile in less than four minutes.

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tallboy
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#30 Post by tallboy »

Hi Sylvander
1. Merging means adding to, as this code taken from the first post in the link:
For directories stored in /root/pictures/
# to initiate ie blank disk.
growisofs -J -R -Z /dev/hdc -graft-points oct06/=/root/pictures/oct06
# to merge another directory on to disk
growisofs -J -R -M /dev/hdc -graft-points dec06/=/root/pictures/dec06

You will then have a disc containing the directories oct06/ and dec06/.
If you're still in december, you may merge your latest pics into the existing content of dec06.

I hope I don't overload you with too much info at once: Take a look at the lower 3 windows in the picture in this post, where the entire /tmp/applications directory is copied to the disc sr0 as a separate session, on the same disc as the puppy. It can be added to with a simple command, just as the Save button add dirs and files to the directory on sr0 which hold the puppy files.
The sr0/applications directory will not be loaded at bootup, but can be mounted and read at any time. This is the way I prefer to save files to the DVD, the Save button is only used for saving changes to configs and settings that I want to load at bootup.
Beware: Saving a file that already exists in a session on the disc wih the growisofs command , will 'overwrite' the old version, even when using a DVD-R! Strange but true!

2. A remastering is simply adding and removing programs from the original puppy. I have some I like to use in all puppies, like 'xpdf' and 'pdftk' to read and manipulate pdfs. They are downloaded and set up, while I remove 'epdfview', and all references to it is replaced by 'xpdf'.
You must also know that for example /usr/local/bin/defaultbrowser contain a command to open your favorite browser, and if you install opera and the browser icon insists on opening firefox, you have missed that setting during remastering.
Most of you have probably not read the text in /usr/sbin/remasterpup2:
This program has created folder /tmp/root, which has everything that is nowgoing to be added as /root in the \$PUPPYSFS file.
This is mostly 'pristine', as obviously you do not want all your cache files,
temp files, email files, and other working/temporary files to be burnt onto
the CD. However, if you are familiar with the workings of Puppy, you might
like to take a look at /tmp/root right now, and possibly add anything that
you want from /root (or remove something!)
Well, yes, you'll want the configs! This is the culprit, you have tweaked your puppy, polished it to perfection, and then it is not saved to the new remastered version after all. You MUST read through the script before making an attempt to remaster. I usually remaster a puppy 4-5 times before I'm satisfied. (notecase is a good tool for noting your tweaks)

3. OK, I've never used wine.

4. I know some puppy derivatives don't always act as the original, you should post a question in the puppy's thread.
The warning you get seem to me as if the session is closed, and cannot be added to?

5. Try an older one, LupuPlus_5.2.8-1 may work OK for you. You should also look at quirky and wary , they have booted very fast on some of my PCs.

And I forgot, welcome to the wonderful world of multisessions. :lol:

Edit: I might add that the reason I remaster, is to avoid the slow loading of savefiles. But, I don't understand if the loading is so slow on a 64-bit machine; when I switch from a slower PIII to a P4 1.8 GHz PC, my live disc boots very fast. (less than a minute)
Edit2: Hmm, will a CD boot faster than a DVD? I have to make a test!

tallboy
True freedom is a live Puppy on a multisession CD/DVD.

partsman
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#31 Post by partsman »

Yes m/s puppy will find swap and look for main sfs on the hard drive like
jasper said I reduces the boot time :wink: But in Sylvander's case he has remasterd so he needs to copy the main sfs from his newly remasterd m/s dvd to the hard drive Not the original sfs :wink:
If he wouldn't have remasterd then the original would work fine but after tweeking and remastering he must now use his sfs from his remasterd puppy :wink: I am sure he will love m/s puppy it really is great way to use puppy :D
[color=red]Anyone can build a fast processor. The trick is to build a fast system. (Seymour Cray)[/color] :wink:

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Ted Dog
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#32 Post by Ted Dog »

Flash wrote:Sylvander, try it. Boot one of your multisession Puppies, put a file or folder in /archive, then shut down, saving the session. When next you boot, look in /archive to see what's there. There shouldn't be anything but a readme file. What you put in /archive is in the last session saved on the multisession disk. You can see it by mounting the disk, then looking in the session you saved after you put that special file in /archive.

This means you have to search through every saved session on the disk to find that certain special file you put in /archive. There is a better way. Make a folder called Archive and put your special file in it, then use Pburn to burn only that Archive folder to your multisession Puppy disk (as a session.) Keep doing the same thing with an Archive folder when you want to save something on the disk but not load it into RAM when Puppy boots, such as .pets for large programs you don't use very often. Multisession Puppy will ignore the Archive folders on the disk when it boots. When you mount the multisession disk, you will see like magic one Archive folder or session no matter how many of them Pburn put on the disk, and inside it will be all the stuff from all the Archive folders you burned on the disk.

You can also do this from the command line. Years ago I detailed how to do that somewhere in the forum, either the How-to section or the Multisession section, I forget.
Awesome, way of doing his the 'right' way. Will work on a active Archive folder you drop a file into this and it will burn to archive folder as a multisession. :wink:

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#33 Post by Sylvander »

@Jasper
1. "You don't have your engineer's hat on this week and it seems very few of my comments have been either well understood or useful to you."
Old age doesn't come alone you know.
My mental faculties are not what they once were.
I now have difficulty recalling rapidly from memory, the names of things.
You know...those thingumy-bob whatsits, that attach to the em, em, whatevers.
Plus my eyesight and hearing are both deteriorating.
Am I downhearted? NO WAY! :D
Things could be MUCH worse.

2. "I assume your banking-only-DVD takes less than four minutes to load"
Not sure, may have been more than 4 min.
A normal Puppy only takes 40 to 50 seconds to boot, and 10 seconds to close down.

@tallboy
3. That's a lot of interesting stuff you say there, but too much for me to digest as one meal.
I'll nibble at it over the coming days.

@partsman
4. "in Sylvander's case he has remasterd so he needs to copy the main sfs from his newly remasterd m/s dvd to the hard drive Not the original sfs"
Aha! I must try that.
When did I remaster?
What constitutes a remaster?

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#34 Post by Flash »

Thanks, Ted. I'm glad you liked it. :D

Did you see the link to the post that details how to do it from the command line using growisofs?

Jasper

#35 Post by Jasper »

Hi Sylvander,

I also have an abundance of your defects in memory, eyesight and earsight.

I believe you should be able to boot your banking-only-multi-session-DVD+RW in less than 75 seconds, perhaps less than one minute, if you are willing to provide some simple information and try one or two experiments.

Start a new banking DVD with your Wine and other tweaks then:
(1) Move your /root/.wine file to your archive directory and then copy it back with an absolute link.
(2) Move your /usr/lib/wine file to your archive directory and then copy it back with an absolute link.
(3) Reboot using the Save option.

Now, hopefully, you will notice a huge reduction in boot time and if so, after you have booted, roughly how much longer does it take to access your password .exe file (perhaps after mounting the DVD)?

If that doesn't work well, or at all, then start again and put a Wine sfs file in your archive directory and copy/put your .exe file to /root.

How many partitions do you have on your internal hard drive and ideally what are they used for and how are they formatted?
--------------------------------------

Update some 12 hours later

Upon reflection: you don't have to leave the house, let alone make even a short journey, to get an up-to-date view or conduct some financial transfers - so what's a few extra minutes boot/coffee time.

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#36 Post by Sylvander »

1. Decided to try a suggestion given by gcmartin in the Lighthouse thread, as follows:
a. Made a multi-session DVD+RW of "Lighthouse64-6.02-B2_Mariner.iso".
Very big for an optical disk to [it may or may not] be used for banking.
This includes various SFS files [including WINE], and there's the opportunity during boot to choose which of those to load.
I only chose 3, so it didn't take too long to load.

b. Tried running "Acerose Password Vault" using:
b1. winefile command in a terminal, then navigate to the exe file. [worked OK]
And...
b2. Used ROX to navigate to the exe file, then uses "Open with..." and chose wine. [worked OK]
So all's well.

2.
a. Will 1st try the "Save..." icon on the desktop, and report back.
This 2nd save worked OK.
Will now reboot, and see if the 2nd save folder is reported at startup.
Problem: Failure to boot.
Took a long time seeking main file & session file...
The reported "Kernel panic" and ended with a flashing cursor.

b. After reboot next session will try making some changes, then try saving at shutdown/reboot, and report back.

@Jasper
3. Do think it's still worth trying your suggestions in this "Mariner" version?
I guess the principle still holds, and could be tried with any SFS other than those included in Mariner.
I wonder where the SFS files are held in Mariner?
And will I be offered the full list at next boot.
I've chosen/configured to be offered the choice.
Last edited by Sylvander on Wed 14 Aug 2013, 12:38, edited 1 time in total.

Jasper

#37 Post by Jasper »

Hi Sylvander,

Elsewhere, I think you said Slacko 5.6 is your new No 1.

As Precise 5.6.1 works for your banking needs. keep it - and experiment with whatever takes your fancy, but my own view is "if it ain't broke there is nothing to fix".

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#38 Post by Sylvander »

@Jasper
1. "Elsewhere, I think you said Slacko 5.6 is your new No 1."
True.

2. "As Precise 5.6.1 works for your banking needs. keep it..."
a. The problem with this is...
Precise-5.6.1 WAS my number-1...
Then Slacko-5.5.91 became my new number-1, with Precise-5.6.1 as my number-2.
Precise-5.7.1 could overtake Slacko-5.5.91.
Ideally I'd rather not use either of these as my banking multi-session DVD+RW.
That's why I'm experimenting with Lighthouse.
When the next version of Lighthouse is released, I'd rather not use Lighthouse for a banking multi-session DVD+RW.
I'd rather use something further down my ranking list.
But what?

b. The reason I don't want to use my favourites for banking:
Because it seems the DVD+RW's interfere with the pupsave files.
If that's not true, then I don't need to be concerned, and can use BOTH the ordinary "live" CD-RW, and the multi-session DVD+RW for various given Puppy versions.

Jasper

#39 Post by Jasper »

Hi Sylvander,

If you still have another Precise iso (5.4 or 5.5 or 5.6 or 5.7[.0]) they should work just as well as 5.6.1.

Sylvander
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#40 Post by Sylvander »

1. I have LOTS of disks! :)
e.g. Precise:
CD-RW's:
a. 5.7.1-ataflash
b. 5.6.1-ataflash [works well]

DVD+RW multi-session:
c. 5.6.1 [no pmedia=ataflash setting in the isolinux.cfg file in the ISO]
This disk is working well I believe, so long as it sees no precisesave.

2. Problem is:
a. If I hold the pupsave [for a CD-RW] on the internal HDD...
Will the Puppy of a particular type on a DVD+RW...
Ignore the pupsave of the same Puppy type run from a CD-RW?
e.g.
b. If the Puppy type was Precise.
Will the Precise run from a DVD+RW ignore the Precisesave of the Precise [perhaps a different version] normally run from a CD-RW?
Even if it can see the precisesave file?

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