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FatdogArm [CLOSED]
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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 03:51    Post_subject:  FatdogArm [CLOSED]
Sub_title: Teaser screenshot
 

For discussion only.

EDIT: FatdogArm alpha is now released here: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=721700#721700; thus it is no longer "for discussion only" (=vapourware).
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 04:45    Post_subject:  

I would be very interested in some more information.
Some time ago I had the ARM XOs booting with a modified initrd and kernel but did not go any further.
Recently I got Tinycore going on them but their armv7 repo is prectically non-existing and the armv6 repo I used is really underperforming. Also the framebuffer video driver is really poor performer.

So, to begin with what SoC is your kernel for.
Is it with hard FPU or soft FPU.
Is it full install or frugal (Aufs, Unininfs?).
Are the applications from debian, fedora etc or compiled from source (tool chain?)
Are they armv7hf?
Which xorg/video driver?
Are these enough for discussion Razz

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Ray MK


Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 05:18    Post_subject:  

This looks fantastic.

Could it be used on an older android smart-phone or a cheapo 7” tablet?

I always have a selection of puppy usb sticks and SD cards about my person and often carry an Asus 701SD netbook, it would however be very convenient to have Fatdog ready to go on a much more pocket-able device.

Just had a closer look at photo - “input” - via keyboard or screen?

Whatever – still fantastic – cant wait to see more.

Very best regards - Ray

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 07:03    Post_subject:  

mavrothal wrote:
Are these enough for discussion Razz

Ah yes, of course Smile

Quote:
I would be very interested in some more information.
Some time ago I had the ARM XOs booting with a modified initrd and kernel but did not go any further.
That would be interesting. I think you or Mick told me that XO 1.75 uses Marvell PXA CPU or something?

Quote:
So, to begin with what SoC is your kernel for.

It's for A10, that's my development platform (Mele A1000), see here: http://jamesbond3142.no-ip.org/wiki/wiki.cgi/FatdogArm/00-WikiIndex

Quote:
Is it with hard FPU or soft FPU.

A10 comes with hard FPU, VFPv3 compatible, so that's what I built it for.

Quote:
Is it full install or frugal (Aufs, Unininfs?).

Frugal install with AUFS and initrd. All the Fatdog64 boot features are avaialable except LVM and encrypted savefile (simply because I haven't compiled the required supporting binaries yet).

Quote:
Are the applications from debian, fedora etc or compiled from source (tool chain?)

All compiled from source, although they are somewhat compatible with debian armhf (if the libs requirements are met).

Quote:
Are they armv7hf?

Yes - ARMv7, optimised for Cortex-A8, with hard-float by default.

Quote:
Which xorg/video driver?

I have two - generic framebuffer driver and sunxi-framebuffer driver (A10 specific). Sunxi-framebuffer driver has 2D acceleration (and 3D too, but I haven't built that one yet).

Xorg uses udev, I can plug-in my Wacom tablet and my HDMI TV becomes a large white board with mtpaint Smile

Quote:
Recently I got Tinycore going on them but their armv7 repo is prectically non-existing and the armv6 repo I used is really underperforming. Also the framebuffer video driver is really poor performer.

Without hardware acceleration (ok, only with that limited 2D sunxi-fb acceleration) and only armhf/neon, I can play SD video upscaled to 720p nicely (I use xine). Anything above that will stutter.

Seamonkey plays youtube's webm video like powerpoint presentation. There is no armhf Flash player available and even if there is, I would be horrified at its performance.

A10 uses Mali GPU and there are some binary blobs to make it work; and it is "down the roadmap"; but it is not so important as every ARM platform is different. At the moment I'm more interested building something which is generic enough and can easily be ported across other SoCs (apart from the kernel and bootloader - which is always SoC-specific).



Ray MK wrote:
This looks fantastic.
Could it be used on an older android smart-phone or a cheapo 7” tablet?

Unfortunately, most likely no. In case you missed it, here is a good quote by jpeps:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=696917#696917

Quote:
Just had a closer look at photo - “input” - via keyboard or screen?

Good catch - it's via conventional keyboard and mouse (I attached to a Logitech USB wireless receiver which handles both keyboard and mouse). I was initially building this on the Mele which doesn't have touch input. I have since built the touchscreen drive but have yet to test it.

Quote:
Whatever – still fantastic – cant wait to see more.

Thank you.

Please be reminded that the screenshot is a *teaser*. The main work is actually about porting Fatdog to ARM platform, whatever the form-factor is (not limited to tablet) Smile

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2340
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 07:25    Post_subject:  

Cool, I was hoping the Mele would have a new life, is it the prior version from last year or the newer quad core?

I was discussing this option with Dr from UofTX as a inexpensive device for OneSwitch (method for computer control for the very disabled) just yesterday. Currently porting the programs to 64bit (can't get keyboard keys lock, wonder if its swen related...) and the speech program espeech has been ported to ARM7.

Laughing

And what is this 622 version of fatdog you are using to compile... Shocked

I have both64bit and a Mele1000A setups if you need a 'beta' tester for 'BOTH' Wink
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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 08:31    Post_subject:  

jamesbond wrote:

Quote:
I would be very interested in some more information.
Some time ago I had the ARM XOs booting with a modified initrd and kernel but did not go any further.
That would be interesting. I think you or Mick told me that XO 1.75 uses Marvell PXA CPU or something?.

The XO-1.75 has an Marvell armada 610 SoC with Marvell Sheeva ARM PJ4 CPU and the XO-4 (touch!) with Marvell PXA2128 SoC with dual PJ4

jamesbond wrote:

Frugal install with AUFS and initrd. All the Fatdog64 boot features are avaialable except LVM and encrypted savefile (simply because I haven't compiled the required supporting binaries yet).

Supper!
Any git or image to play with?

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Ted Dog


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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 09:42    Post_subject:  

Got me thinking, you could solve the need of a keyboard / mouse pad if we could get the Mele remote control to function as the OneSwitch (it software has a onscreen keyboard and mouse 'radar') controlled by a single button.
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starhawk

Joined: 22 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 11:24    Post_subject:  

I have a CX-01 Android Cloud Stick. I would *LOVE* to put Puppy on it.

If you make a FatDog for my CX-01 I *WILL* use it.

Here's links to info on that little doodad.

http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/06/14/52-99-usd-cx-01-mini-android-4-0-tv-box-powered-by-telechips-tcc8923-cortex-a5/
http://www.slatedroid.com/topic/36988-cx-01-cortex-a5/
http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/08/22/how-to-create-a-custom-android-firmware-for-cx-01/
http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/08/16/how-to-upgrade-firmware-for-cx-01-mini-pc/
http://www.cnx-software.com/2012/07/18/building-linux-kernel-3-0-8-for-telechips-tcc8925-mini-pcs-cx-01-z900-tizzbird-n1/

They're actually getting a little hard-to-find on eBay now... there are stronger better faster versions but I don't have them -- or the money to get them. I wouldn't mind loaning you my CX-01 if you're in the States -- I've no use for it till it's Linux'd -- but you've got to promise me you won't brick it Wink after all, I've only got the one.

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jamesbond

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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 15:45    Post_subject:  

Ted Dog wrote:
Cool, I was hoping the Mele would have a new life, is it the prior version from last year or the newer quad core?
The old one from last year. I wanted to do this since last year but got distracted by many other things.

Quote:
I was discussing this option with Dr from UofTX as a inexpensive device for OneSwitch (method for computer control for the very disabled) just yesterday. Currently porting the programs to 64bit (can't get keyboard keys lock, wonder if its swen related...) and the speech program espeech has been ported to ARM7.
I have not been following the thread, but it sounds like a good initiative.

Quote:
And what is this 622 version of fatdog you are using to compile... Shocked
That's "Fatdog Next", the next release of Fatdog (we (=me and kirk) eat our own dogfood, run Fatdog on my machine and experience the devastating bugs first hand, and only deliver the sanitised and clean and bug-free versions to the masses ... of course sometimes one or two bugs manage to sneak through, usually the nasty ones Razz). I posted a note about it recently in the Fatdog64 thread. Mainly new kernel, new seamonkey, a few bug fixes and new sandbox & LXC. At this stage we'll be looking after kernel 3.11 before making another release.

Quote:
I have both64bit and a Mele1000A setups if you need a 'beta' tester for 'BOTH' Wink
You have 64-bit ARM setup? Shocked

Quote:
he XO-1.75 has an Marvell armada 610 SoC with Marvell Sheeva ARM PJ4 CPU and the XO-4 (touch!) with Marvell PXA2128 SoC with dual PJ4
That's cool. Are they unbrickable? Can they boot from SD Card without having to flash the internal NAND/MMC storage? (like Mele)? If both are yes, any idea how I can get my hands on them? Smile

Quote:
Supper! Any git or image to play with?

Not yet. Let me rationalise the packages a little bit, perhaps splitting of the toolchains to devx sfs, etc.

Quote:
Got me thinking, you could solve the need of a keyboard / mouse pad if we could get the Mele remote control to function as the OneSwitch (it software has a onscreen keyboard and mouse 'radar') controlled by a single button.

I haven't tested it yet but according to linux-sunxi.org, Mele's remote is detected as just another "keyboard". So in theory it is possible. But personally, as a not-disabled person, navigating using Mele's keyboard is a very frustating experience - I'd go for keyboard anytime.

Quote:
I have a CX-01 Android Cloud Stick. I would *LOVE* to put Puppy on it.
Thanks starhawk for the offer. As it happens, I also have CX-01 ... and I love to have puppy there too. Unfortunately at the time being it doesn't seem to be feasible. The main problem is that it can't boot off external media, which means if you want to install Puppy you have to wipe-off the Android. Secondly, to actually do that, you need to use a Windows program .... Rolling Eyes The last information I can find is here: http://www.freaktab.com/showthread.php?4424-CX-01-Information-by-Tatubias and all they got as far is to "upgrade" the Android there.

cheers

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starhawk

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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 15:59    Post_subject:  

Re: CX-01. I don't *want* android on there; without a touchscreen it's incredibly clumsy. Plus half of everything (the exciting half, predictably) expects a tablet with an accelerometer in it... not gonna happen on a CX-01. Not a pleasant experience at all! No, I'd much rather have Puppy.

If you can tell me how, I don't mind doing the actual install myself (I've got a win7 laptop that I do a lot on Embarassed ) although I'll need some fairly idiot-proof instructions. I can do some pretty stupid stuff when I don't know what I'm doing Wink

Alternately, if you know where I could get something similar with an SD slot for $20 or less I'd be able to do that... but only barely.

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mavrothal


Joined: 24 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Aug 2013, 16:24    Post_subject:  

jamesbond wrote:

Quote:
he XO-1.75 has an Marvell armada 610 SoC with Marvell Sheeva ARM PJ4 CPU and the XO-4 (touch!) with Marvell PXA2128 SoC with dual PJ4
That's cool. Are they unbrickable? Can they boot from SD Card without having to flash the internal NAND/MMC storage? (like Mele)? If both are yes, any idea how I can get my hands on them? Smile

Both yes.
Check the Contributors program and join the XO-puppy development team Wink
If you want to do that let me know.

Quote:
Quote:
Supper! Any git or image to play with?

Not yet. Let me rationalise the packages a little bit, perhaps splitting of the toolchains to devx sfs, etc.

I was thinking of a pre-alpha version to test if my kernels are doing OK.
You may want to upload it somewhere and PM me.

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raffy

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PostPosted: Sun 18 Aug 2013, 04:24    Post_subject: another tester  

Yay, excellent development!

You have another FatdogARM tester here.

Cubieboard, another popular build of the Allwinner SoC, must also be jumping with joy.

Yes, mavrothal, "how I can get my hands on them" is now a question about the XO. Tell us how to.*

* My elementary school [hundreds of km from here] has a pilot run of the XOs, so it will be good to work on the XO again.

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mavrothal


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PostPosted: Sun 18 Aug 2013, 09:26    Post_subject: Re: another tester  

raffy wrote:

Yes, mavrothal, "how I can get my hands on them" is now a question about the XO. Tell us how to.*

* My elementary school [hundreds of km from here] has a pilot run of the XOs, so it will be good to work on the XO again.


Unfortunately, XOs can be found only on ebay and they are usually XO-1s (x86 Geode CPU).
The aforementioned "Contributors Program" is the only alternative for individuals that are deemed they have something to contribute to the OLPC project, to get a (free) XO (see here to get an idea of approved requests)
Being involved with a pilot or a local deployment is certainly worthy
Of course you can buy them in lots of 100+ ( Surprised ) if you want to set up a pilot or something.

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mavrothal


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PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2013, 01:16    Post_subject:  

Hi jamesbond.
I can appreciate that from teaser to pleaser can take some time so I thought to get going at least with busybox.
Unfortunately I do not have a 64-bit CPU with me currently but the XO-4 can compile its kernel in ~20min Wink
So is a toolchain with glibc-2.16/gcc-4.7.2/binutils-2.35.51 close to yours?
Can you post your busybox configure/flags?
Thx
Latter: ...or you could advise on my busybox config (attached)
busybox.config.gz
Description 
gz

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Filename  busybox.config.gz 
Filesize  6.22 KB 
Downloaded  142 Time(s) 

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jamesbond

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PostPosted: Mon 19 Aug 2013, 12:55    Post_subject:  

starhawk wrote:
Re: CX-01. I don't *want* android on there; without a touchscreen it's incredibly clumsy. Plus half of everything (the exciting half, predictably) expects a tablet with an accelerometer in it... not gonna happen on a CX-01. Not a pleasant experience at all! No, I'd much rather have Puppy.

If you can tell me how, I don't mind doing the actual install myself (I've got a win7 laptop that I do a lot on Embarassed ) although I'll need some fairly idiot-proof instructions. I can do some pretty stupid stuff when I don't know what I'm doing Wink
I agree. For me to tell to give you idiot-proof instructions, however, I need to at least have done it once myself; which right now I'm a bit reluctant to do (since it requires me to setup Windows somewhere). I will see what I can do later, but no promises yet Smile

raffy wrote:
Cubieboard, another popular build of the Allwinner SoC, must also be jumping with joy.
Yes, I am considering to get Cubieboard2, though I haven't decided yet whether I'll get that or BeagleBlack instead (Odroid and Cubox are interesting too but out of question at the moment for budget reasons).

mavrothal wrote:
Hi jamesbond.
I can appreciate that from teaser to pleaser can take some time so I thought to get going at least with busybox.
Unfortunately I do not have a 64-bit CPU with me currently but the XO-4 can compile its kernel in ~20min Wink
So is a toolchain with glibc-2.16/gcc-4.7.2/binutils-2.35.51 close to yours?
Can you post your busybox configure/flags?


Ah ok, you don't need 64-bit CPU at all. I'm attaching the bbconfig static busybox and glibc-busybox (dynamically linked); the static busybox is for initrd and the dynamic busybox is for the main SFS. Busybox in the main SFS is used to supplement missing tools and binaries (e.g, if you haven't installed net-tools then busybox will provide ifconfig, netstat etc) -- if you have all these tools then dynamic busybox isn't strictly necessary (I like to have them). My busybox is from git July 2013; patched with guess_fstype applet patch you can find from the Programming thread (from Ibidem); if you can't find it don't worry just use the standard Puppy's guess_fstype instead.

The busybox config I attached is over-spec'ed, Fatdog initrd doesn't actually need all these applets. I enabled them just because I like to have all these tools handy when I need it. You can easily trim it down to the basic applets if you.

The static busybox is cross-compiled using Aboriginal's cross-compiler 1.2.3; the glibc-busybox I compiled much later using the native compiler after I got the native compiler working. You can use any native compiler to compile glibc-busybox, it isn't critical.

I cross-compiled my kernel using linaro's 4.7 toolchain (which is a 32-bit tool) but there is no reason why it can't be compiled native only the machine, if it is capable enough. Linaro's toolchain is gcc 4.7.3, binutils 2.23.1, glibc 2.15; so I think yours should work too.
bbconfig-glibc.gz
Description  dynamically linked busybox config
gz

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Filename  bbconfig-glibc.gz 
Filesize  5.61 KB 
Downloaded  147 Time(s) 
bbconfig.gz
Description  static busybox config
gz

 Download 
Filename  bbconfig.gz 
Filesize  5.59 KB 
Downloaded  143 Time(s) 

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