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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Puppy Power
Keeping "Puppy Linux" as a brand
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Mon 23 Sep 2013, 19:40    Post subject:  Keeping "Puppy Linux" as a brand  

"Puppy Linux" currently enjoys being 10th in Distrowatch (whatever this means). I know at least one Puppy brand that is listed as another distro in Distrowatch (I guess Grafpup, now inactive, was the first Puppy that did this.)

The question now is, is it better to enter the Distrowatch list as another distro, or is it better to be listed as a "Puppy Linux" flavor (64-bit, Slackware, U-Precise, etc)?

Of course, if we collect Puppy flavors, then our various websites/forums should reflect this (emphasizing flavors and teams). This will somehow answer the concern about which is the "official Puppy" (the answer being "whichever is still being supported by the developer")*.
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* With respect to this point, this forum tries to support all, so perhaps the only important consideration is the developer's support?

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runtt21


Joined: 07 Jun 2008
Posts: 1640
Location: BigD Texas

PostPosted: Mon 23 Sep 2013, 21:15    Post subject:  

As far as I know, the only "official" versions of puppylinux are the one's that Barry says are " official". And personally ,I think that is the way it should be.
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Karl Godt


Joined: 20 Jun 2010
Posts: 3860
Location: Kiel,Germany

PostPosted: Mon 23 Sep 2013, 23:51    Post subject:  

To me everything inside the puppylinux , quirky , fatdog or puppyrus folder that is hosted at http://distro.ibiblio.org/ appears as " official " .

But there are many derivates that might be better or better supported than the " official " , like Lighthousepup , Macpup , pemasu's spin offs or former Saluki .

Puppy has been always a " ONE-MAN-DISTRO " , that received most outside code from times before I joined Puppy in 2010 and current outside code comes from two persons I am aware of : zigbert and shinobar .
rerwin , npierce and SFR are current noticeable helpers for fixing bugs .


Further note by me : " Brand " means to me " Trade Mark " .
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darry1966

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 292
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2013, 00:40    Post subject:  

Karl Godt wrote:
To me everything inside the puppylinux , quirky , fatdog or puppyrus folder that is hosted at http://distro.ibiblio.org/ appears as " official " .

But there are many derivates that might be better or better supported than the " official " , like Lighthousepup , Macpup , pemasu's spin offs or former Saluki .

Puppy has been always a " ONE-MAN-DISTRO " , that received most outside code from times before I joined Puppy in 2010 and current outside code comes from two persons I am aware of : zigbert and shinobar .
rerwin , npierce and SFR are current noticeable helpers for fixing bugs .


Further note by me : " Brand " means to me " Trade Mark " .


Yes Pemasu has done mighty work his "buntus" and Debian Wheezy are pretty cool.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 5429
Location: Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2013, 00:57    Post subject:  

runtt21 wrote:
As far as I know, the only "official" versions of puppylinux are the one's that Barry says are " official". And personally ,I think that is the way it should be.


This is my understanding as well.I assume that the individual or group chosen by Barry K to manage Puppy Linux ( the official version) will continue this practice.

As far as I know, and off the top of my head, Unofficial Puppy versions/forks/puplets/spins/whatever listed on Distrowatch include Macpup,Legacy OS, Simplicity, Hacao, and several on the waiting list. And lets not forget Quirky.
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simargl8

Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2013, 08:45    Post subject:  

Karl Godt wrote:
To me everything inside the puppylinux , quirky , fatdog or puppyrus folder that is hosted at http://distro.ibiblio.org/ appears as " official " .

But there are many derivates that might be better or better supported than the " official " , like Lighthousepup , Macpup , pemasu's spin offs or former Saluki .

Puppy has been always a " ONE-MAN-DISTRO " , that received most outside code from times before I joined Puppy in 2010 and current outside code comes from two persons I am aware of : zigbert and shinobar .
rerwin , npierce and SFR are current noticeable helpers for fixing bugs .


Further note by me : " Brand " means to me " Trade Mark " .


You forgot to mention alphaOS,

Cheers!
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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 696
Location: USA

PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2013, 16:02    Post subject:  

simargl8 wrote:


You forgot to mention alphaOS,

Cheers!


I give you credit for your work, but it is not exactly a puppy derivative. You just happen to use some lines in the init system. But it seems decent now, even with arch rollback machine gone. I just can't ever seem to get broadcom to work.
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darry1966

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 292
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2013, 19:57    Post subject: Reply  

Karl Godt wrote:
To me everything inside the puppylinux , quirky , fatdog or puppyrus folder that is hosted at http://distro.ibiblio.org/ appears as " official " .

But there are many derivates that might be better or better supported than the " official " , like Lighthousepup , Macpup , pemasu's spin offs or former Saluki .

Puppy has been always a " ONE-MAN-DISTRO " , that received most outside code from times before I joined Puppy in 2010 and current outside code comes from two persons I am aware of : zigbert and shinobar .
rerwin , npierce and SFR are current noticeable helpers for fixing bugs .


Further note by me : " Brand " means to me " Trade Mark " .


Then the answer to the one man model is simple it needs to be more open model, especially as Puppy has thrived in the past on variants which have been fantastic such as Fire Hydrant, Akita which can lead to innovation which can get feed back to the "official" and to be honest I take issue with them being called Mongrels - my point is I hope Puppy never loses the fun aspect it had in earlier days where lots of Devs were letting their creative juices flow and developing some great distros. We need to keep the fun factor, leave any bitching behind and relax and enjoy what we do.

I recognise a need for leadership but I think it needs to be more plural so the load is shared for Puppys sake and I agree Puppy should be kept minimal and sleek - the Bonsai philosphy is a great philosphy that fits Puppy.

May be some things have to change which is not a bad thing it needs to be embraced as we go forward - good luck to the future DEVS.

Last edited by darry1966 on Tue 24 Sep 2013, 23:26; edited 1 time in total
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raffy

Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 4752
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2013, 22:22    Post subject: definition  

The way I used "brand" above is "distinction". It may be useful for devs to tell us what characteristics in their build they try to keep which are also distinctions of Puppy Linux. For example:

- installs with at least 3 files: kernel, initrd and filesystem.sfs
- small: sub-200 MB while being ready for daily tasks with image editor, multimedia player, word processor, spreadsheet, browser and clients for mail and file shares
- allows user at boot time to start fresh (not reading any saved session)
- GUI interface for adding/removing packages (sfs, pet or optionally, other formats from parent distro)

As a user, I find these distinctions to be the reasons why I stick to Puppy Linux. My recent Puppies are Slacko and Pemasu's Upup.

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darry1966

Joined: 26 Feb 2012
Posts: 292
Location: New Zealand

PostPosted: Tue 24 Sep 2013, 23:36    Post subject: Re: definition  

Agreed Puppy must keep its distinctiveness. I think a return to the kind of Puppy we had in the 4 days with a minimum of bloat yet functional and I still think there is a place for pure Puppies like T2 - even old unleashed is still useful as a base. I don't think it is ridiculous to use these still with some modernisation to run modern apps eg Akita a fine example.

It is a shame the way things can get started and then thrown away before its time. I see for instance a update of one of the Lucids which is heartening to know.
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simargl8

Joined: 06 Feb 2013
Posts: 65

PostPosted: Wed 25 Sep 2013, 01:31    Post subject:  

bark_bark_bark wrote:
I give you credit for your work, but it is not exactly a puppy derivative. You just happen to use some lines in the init system. But it seems decent now, even with arch rollback machine gone. I just can't ever seem to get broadcom to work.

New arch rollback machine is: http://seblu.net/a/arm/, it's already setup and used in latest version.
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Deacon


Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Posts: 54

PostPosted: Fri 27 Sep 2013, 01:35    Post subject: Re: Keeping "Puppy Linux" as a brand  

raffy wrote:
"Puppy Linux" currently enjoys being 10th in Distrowatch (whatever this means). I know at least one Puppy brand that is listed as another distro in Distrowatch (I guess Grafpup, now inactive, was the first Puppy that did this.)

The question now is, is it better to enter the Distrowatch list as another distro, or is it better to be listed as a "Puppy Linux" flavor (64-bit, Slackware, U-Precise, etc)?

Of course, if we collect Puppy flavors, then our various websites/forums should reflect this (emphasizing flavors and teams). This will somehow answer the concern about which is the "official Puppy" (the answer being "whichever is still being supported by the developer")*.
----------------------------
* With respect to this point, this forum tries to support all, so perhaps the only important consideration is the developer's support?


Since I entered a respin on Distrowatch and found the results frankly very positive, I suggest anyone doing Puppies on their own in the "derivatives" section should enter them there individually. Part of the frustration of newer pupmakers I've seen is a feeling (generally unwarranted) of lack of recognition for their hard work. Entering your pup on Distrowatch ensures once it's listed-- it gets noticed.

That said, from my own experience, if you do this, you absolutely should have two things done:

1) You should have-- even a single page-- a clear description of your website, screenshots, and pass that on when you submit the deriv. In that you should mention it's a Puppy-based distriution. DO NOT link to the forum post for your URL in your email to Distrowatch, but to a separate page with a description. I'll explain why with....

2) Because of the tendency in our community (likely due to the fact that we can fit new puppies on a flash drive and test them in as little as 15 minutes) to react quickly and offer support and criticism to new versions, attach a "discussion" link directly to the Derivatives posting on your page. Submitting to Distrowatch guarantees dozens of new users asking questions which can stump or even irritate-- as well as lots of downloads. Bringing user questions to an existing community already likely familiar with most of the underpinnings of your own version but will also generate more interest in the Puppy community from outside, which in turn is good for Puppy as a whole.

3) On the flip side of it, it also helps protect you from burnout. A lot of Distrowatch downloaders are newbies shopping and pro Linux reviewers. When you work alone, you may not be prepared for the attention. Bringing it back to the forum protects you (1) from the sense of isolation of suddenly becoming an unpaid customer support rep and (2) reminds you that you are part of a greater community of Puppy users, and by extension, GNU/Linux users.

A lot of folks already do this, such as Akita Linux: http://scottjarvis.com/page112.htm

Submitting to Distrowatch independently while retaining links to the community gives you a chance to pursue the dream of distributing your own version of GNU/Linux. Keeping it linked to the community and forum can help inoculate your dream from becoming a nightmare.
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8-bit


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 3274
Location: Oregon

PostPosted: Sat 28 Sep 2013, 15:51    Post subject:
Subject description: On Scotts Site comments
 

I have to say that after doing a quick visit to Scott's site, that it is a very well thought out web site with much information.
It is not often one sees a detailed how-to on setting up their own web page and suggestions for getting it right.
Also, it has a fairly complete repository of files for the distro with not having them scattered.

And after visiting there, it appears a must to try out his Puppy distro!

Thank you for the link!
It was well worth the visit.
Am adding a click-able link to Akita Linux in this post.

http://scottjarvis.com/page112.htm

And excuse me for completely missing his thread on that Distro as well as others. But with some really old laptops with limited memory, it looks like something I should try.

What is interesting in this is that it seems that some derivatives/mongrel Puppys seem to be better supported than the official releases of Puppy in having a dedicated website that tends to make one think that the release will have long term ongoing support.
Whereas with the Puppy official releases, one has often to do a lot of searching to find support for many of the versions such as Puppy 3.01 and Puppy 4.2.1.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2049
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Sun 29 Sep 2013, 14:02    Post subject:  

PuppyLinux as a work of art. I find how to classify a puppylinux difficult, so I think of the brand as a type of artwork. Sometimes wild like a Quirky build our just a workhorse like Wary (should work on all types of machine)

To me puppylinux has always been my hobby. Since a child, I've been tinkering with electronics, hardware and computers. Even been threaten with school suspension by bringing home made gadgets, or because I was caught wirewrapping computer breadboards during Art and History classes in High school. Once almost was shot by local police due to a sound effects board I left in my locker that was making a ticking sound. I was asked by police to open my locker, and I pulled out my ticking bundle of wires duct taped to a log of taped up D-cells. Wink

As a hobby I like that puppyliunx is like a small swiss army knive, run as root - brilliant, why should I fight with permissions just to tinker with my hardware or install new homemade software, small and fast booting, forgetting of bad setups or efforts with multisession rollback.
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