A simple question about Puppy's future

[partsman]

While this forum is open, puppy is alive. I don't see any reason to panic. Just use it, any issues are usually answered here.

"WE ARE PUPPY"
I am no developer but I do what I can to help around here ! Sure its sad to see Barry slow down he is brilliant ! But "SO ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM ! " PUPPY WILL LIVE ON IN US !" We have wonderful people developing in the community and those not dev. are testers etc. Puppy is not going anywhere ! We have so much more to do I think that the new guys like me should be encouraged to release puppies even if its built from a remaster ! It takes time to learn ! but by helping each other I am sure we can take puppy to a new level Also we can do a lot more with the puppies we already have ! they just need reworked updated etc. we have people doing this already and need our encouragement, help, etc. ! Everyone just relax ! "This is only the beginning" :wink

[sunburnt]

I hadn`t seen Barry`s idea for streamlining creation of "Ubuntu Puppy".I suggested this years ago.

# Yes... I definitely think support should be shown for Barry`s last hurrah.
I think it`s a very rational approach considering no more base level development of Puppy.
Slackware and Debian are the only two other choices. Ubuntu isn`t bad, so many offshoots.

It answers the Q about "Why?". Masses of ready made apps. is why.

# In addition to the loss of variant developers, it looks like here that the rest are about to leave.

### Are there any current Puppy variant devs. who intend to continue?
.

[darry1966]

@darry1966: How many people do you think are in this community that have the expertise to manage woof? How many of them are currently actively involved with Puppy?

How many community members are capable of building a new Puppy from woof? How many of them have the time or interest to do so?

Will forming a committee change this?

Or talking about creating a framework to form a search team to strike a committee to organize a Puppy foundation to ......

Here is the reality. The Puppy community is shrinking. The original group of skilled developers that helped BK create Puppy is largely gone. There have been very few replacements.

One needs to ask questions to get answers. So to answer your question how many people do you think are actively involved in Puppy to be part of a team well one only knows the answer to that by asking how many.

Frankly with the way things are structured - one doesn't know and users should have surety and I believe a setup wthether big or small - a team of people is better than one.

As for this tablets as a replacement thing I'll say this once - They are not replacment and frankly are limited and can never replace a desktop. I have my answers and will post no more on this thread.

Like I said users have the right to know whether Puppy continues or will it just be like a Greatest Hits Rock'N"Roll Band having previously produced original material.

[jpeps]

As for this tablets as a replacement thing I'll say this once - They are not replacment and frankly are limited and can never replace a desktop. I have my answers and will post no more on this thread.

Your answers come from your own brain vs reality. Now go hide.

[darry1966]

As for this tablets as a replacement thing I'll say this once - They are not replacment and frankly are limited and can never replace a desktop. I have my answers and will post no more on this thread.

Your answers come from your own brain vs reality. Now go hide.

Nope they come from the facts and I stand by what I said I not hiding anywhere thanks and by the way I don't resort to insults its frnakly childish gooday.

[jpeps]

Nope they come from the facts and I stand by what I said I not hiding anywhere thanks and by the way I don't resort to insults its frnakly childish gooday.

Okay then, post the facts about why devices are limited and will never replace desktops. I thought you said you weren't going to post anymore. Please include references.

Edit: I can find several articles that make the same claim with a google search, and could post a zillion references to refute every point. Here's a gem from eweek that I could have a field day with (granted that a lot of development has happened since the article was written in Feb):

Windows is the enterprise’s favorite
Component power
Virtual keyboards aren’t universally beloved
More options across the PC market

Apple’s App Store currently offers more than 800,000 applications. And although many of them are worthwhile downloads, few actually deliver the complexity and sophistication customers would find in Windows or OS X. -

Prices are still too high
The operating systems haven’t grown up yet

http://www.eweek.com/mobile/tablets-sti ... sons-why-2

The claim is actually moot anyway, since mobile devices ARE replacing PC's, big time both on the enterprise as well as personal computing levels (if people like Eric Schmidt and market data can be trusted).

[James C]

http://gcn.com/articles/2013/04/16/pcs- ... nment.aspx

The latest round of anti-PC sentiment follows the admittedly bad sales report on PCs for the latest quarter. CNN Money recently reported that PCs experienced the worst drop in the history of PC sales tracking. Sales were down 13.9 percent, more than double what research firm IDC had predicted.

That has led to a slew of predictions that the PC is dead, that everyone will soon ditch desktops for iPads or smart phones, and we'll forever be unchained from our desks.

Sorry, but that's total hogwash. If PCs were truly dead (and this includes laptops and ultrabooks) then I probably wouldn't be typing on one right now. Looking around the office, I wouldn’t see coworkers also typing on their computers (which includes a mix of Windows PCs and Mac desktops). When I visit federal agencies, I wouldn't see rows and rows of desktops, all performing valuable functions. Also, don't forget that even with the huge drop, 79 million new PCs were still sold in the first three months of the year. Those were added to an enormous installed base that isn't going away anytime soon.

In government, the PC's dominance is even more pronounced. The Defense Department is adding mobile devices, certainly, but it also just awarded a $617 million contract that will bring Windows 8 PCs to the Army, Air Force and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency. When combined with a similar $700 million deal with the Navy and Marine Corps, that means that PCs running Windows 8 will more or less dominate the entire defense infrastructure for the foreseeable future.

Are PCs in their Golden Age? Probably not. But are they dead or even dying? Also, no. They will either evolve into something different enough that their sales will increase again, or they will simply level out and continue as normal after this little dip. In any case, they will be good for government for decades to come, or even longer.

[mavrothal]

http://gcn.com/articles/2013/04/16/pcs- ... nment.aspx

Similar things can be said for big corporations, banks, science, IT etc. But what this has to do with puppy or its future?

[James C]

http://gcn.com/articles/2013/04/16/pcs- ... nment.aspx

Similar things can be said for big corporations, banks, science, IT etc. But what this has to do with puppy or its future?

Merely one link refuting the opinion that the desktop is dead while underpowered tablets and phones are the future of the computing world. Nothing more and nothing less.

[jpeps]

Merely one link refuting the opinion that the desktop is dead while underpowered tablets and phones are the future of the computing world. Nothing more and nothing less.

Many people still own and use PC's and probably will for years to come. In California, the State still uses CPT billing codes that are a decade old.
Mobile devices are increasingly finding an important place in both enterprise and personal computing. I don't know about "underpowered" devices.


Nobody said that PC's are dead. Mine are still alive. What was said was that new development is going in a different direction. So how does that affect Puppy?

[koulaxizis]

Look, i use a desktop computer at my work and a netbook for personal use. I don't really like mobile devices, i don't like tablets, i don't like ubuntu. All i want is an up-to-date Puppy, i'm used to it, i'm emotionally attached to it and i love working with it every day. It's that simple...

[jpeps]

. All i want is an up-to-date Puppy:

What doesn't your computer do now, that needs to be brought "up to date"? It's a bit strange..Puppy is perfect for older computers.

[koulaxizis]

. All i want is an up-to-date Puppy:

What doesn't your computer do now, that needs to be brought "up to date"? It's a bit strange..Puppy is perfect for older computers.

Up-to-date only to support all software packages...

[jpeps]

Up-to-date only to support all software packages...

only that?

[koulaxizis]

Up-to-date only to support all software packages...

only that?

I'm a simple man...

[jpeps]

Up-to-date only to support all software packages...

only that?

I'm a simple man...

For that you'll need an android.

[koulaxizis]

only that?

I'm a simple man...

For that you'll need an android.

Android doesn't bark!

[mavrothal]

Merely one link refuting the opinion that the desktop is dead while underpowered tablets and phones are the future of the computing world.

x86 is certainly not gone, however ARM may soon run servers (mostly because of energy efficiency).
Regarding the "computing word" I have no idea but most computer users today use PCs for media consumption and communications. Tablets/phone can do it very well today and even better tomorrow, and if MS provides a tablet version of office in 2014 (as rumors have it) will be very little left to PC other than major production work.

[jamesbond]

Back to topic.

Have we come up with a decision on which will be the next Puppy main stream and what binaries will be used?

Identify the person/team/group who will continue the Puppy development and then you can get the answer for this by asking that person/team/group. Asking this before we identify who "will do it" is putting the cart before the horse. Right now every good suggestion and feedback is going down the sinkhole because *nobody is listening*.

One needs to ask questions to get answers. So to answer your question how many people do you think are actively involved in Puppy to be part of a team well one only knows the answer to that by asking how many.

### Are there any current Puppy variant devs. who intend to continue? .

Yes, I can confirm at least one --> 01micko (that's why he said "don't panic" ).
In the other threads similar to this Nathan F (the original builder of Grafpup) has expressed interest in at least doing some of the partial work.
The fact that Iguleder and Elroy is expressing their concern can also be taken as they care and they would be willing to spend the effort to continue Puppy.

Like I said users have the right to know whether Puppy continues or will it just be like a Greatest Hits Rock'N"Roll Band having previously produced original material.

It will continue. But it may not look like the Puppy you know. Each and everyone I said above has his own (and rather conflicting) views of how the new Puppy should look like. If jpeps has his way we'll probably have a "puppified Android" But that's not like the situation is new, we have puplets which are all different even today

Enough talking, let's get the ball rolling.

How to ensure Puppy's continuity in five (5) easy steps.

1) Clone Woof repository
2) Upload to a public hosting place (chiselapp.com if you still want to use fossil, or convert the repo to git and use github or repo.cz or whatever).
3) Make it public so others can make puppies from your Woof copy too.
4) Continue puppy building, making releases, etc - business as usual - plus making changes to your own Woof copy, as needed.
5) When Barry has finally appointed the official successor, merge the changes back to the official Woof line.

Notes:
a) As Mavrothal said elsewhere, chances are, whoever has shown the initiative to maintain (his/her own copy of) Woof (*and* if Barry likes the change), could be the one appointed as the official successor.
b) Even if you are *not* appointed, you'll get the warm feeling knowing that you've done the right thing; and by that time you have the choice of continuing your own work, or slowly adapt it to the official Woof line.
c) How you run the your project is up to you - you want to be another dictator? Go ahead. You want to form and listen to focus groups in this forum? Go ahead. Committee model suits you better? Go ahead. A full democracy - you listen and try to accomodate to anything that people in this forum has to say? Go ahead. Anything you like, nobody's stopping you, and if they do, you don't have to listen to them - it's *your* project. Anybody who doesn't like you, your project, your vision or the way you run things, is free to start their own .

Any takers?

EDIT: more notes:
d) You can do 1) & 2) because Puppy is GPL - thanks Barry!
e) You can do 4) as long as the name is not Puppy or something similar enough that can be confused with Puppy Linux; Puppy Linux is Barry's trademark and he has reserved its use for something that he approves. But you can call yours as something-pup name (or pup-something), I think I read somewhere that Barry has explicitly said that calling something-pup is okay
f) How is this different from building a variant puppy in existence? None at all, except that now you're taking charge of *everything* including the code in Woof (=read: can modify everything that you wish, including the base stuff).

Any takers?

[jpeps]

Any takers?

Another approach would be simply to let Puppy continue to fill the nitch for a minimized distro for PC's with older hardware (which is likely to still be around for years to come). Meanwhile, linux support for modern hardware likely will become available (Ubuntu?) and can be integrated if interest exists. Support for features like cloud printing can be added the same way dropbox and skype were, by professional developers that added linux support.

BTW/ I think we went through this whole process several years ago, where tux put in his bid to take over from Barry. As you can see, nothing at all came of it and here we are.

If jpeps has his way we'll probably have a "puppified Android"

not even close