FatdogArm Alpha3 - 2 October 2013 [CLOSED]

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jamesbond
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#21 Post by jamesbond »

starhawk wrote:Hey, jamesbond, would FatDogARM support the A20? I know it runs (at least somewhat) on A10 now...
Not in alpha3, but yes it does, see my post here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 419#729419 - Cubieboard2 uses A20. All it needs is a new kernel, a new bootloader, and a new script.bin (what else is new :lol:). I'll probably cobble it together and make an release soon since I've got other things to attend and may disappear for a while. (My goals for "beta" release isn't going to be met so it will just be another alpha).
I'm working with a very nifty project, actually found out about it through something Barry bought to support them -- EOMA-68. Basically a "cartridge motherboard" sort of thing -- the CPU/SoC, RAM, graphics, and some storage (microSD) is in a "CPU Card" with the physical form factor of a PCMCIA card (totally different pinout, though). The CPU card goes into a carrier board (my personal term, not the group's) that has ports and such on it.

More here --> http://elinux.org/Embedded_Open_Modular ... re/EOMA-68

*IF* FatDogARM could be made to work with this I'd just about dance in the streets.
The answer is a qualified yes. Bootloader support is there (but you need to compile it); kernel support is probably there unless EOMA does very exotic things; the only thing missing is the script.bin - but I'm sure you can get it from EOMA devs.
Another question -- would it be possible to create a "mini-OS" that ran eg QEMU to emulate an x86 environment, on such a CPU, "under" the regular OS but also transparent to that OS? In other words --

base hardware
"mini-OS" emulation layer
some sort of x86 *nix OS
user

That way I could run, say, FatDog or Upup Raring or whatever, on this thing, as if it had eg an Atom CPU in it.
Yes you can, but I doubt how practical it would be due to (low-)speed. You can even do this on your existing x86 machine - you can run qemu-system-x86 (or qemu-system-x86_64 if you want to run Fatdog64) on the real x86 and then boot Puppy in it - and figure out the speed yourself.
ARM's great for power consumption but I don't think the codebase (set of compatible applications and packages, in this case) is anywhere near as big for *nix ARM as it is for *nix x86...
Not really. Many applications are portable; just look at the number packages supported for the ARM architecture.
x86 is very much PlugNPlay with software because it's been around since 1981 or so and it's been *nix-able since Linus Torvalds started mucking with Unix memory management in the early 1990s (don't remember if it was '92 or '93...).
True, but it has been a long time since Linux moved from being 386-only OS. The main problem with ARM is not the apps or the OS, but with the lack of discoverable bus (like USB or PCI) resulting in OS fragmentation (the analogy would be: a different kernel for every different motherboard).
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

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Ted Dog
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#22 Post by Ted Dog »

Could really use PovRay, would you tell me how you compiled it on ARM, how long it took to get to the stage you reported back. I think it can compile without 3rd party image support libraries, I could feed the raw bitmap into an existing ARM graphic editor to compress.

Just came up with a new idea, and am off to model it, so, will not be testing releases for a few days,

Oh, one more thing is the distributed compile code stuff in FDAa3 and/or hopefully FD630rc? If not please add the pair in next rollouts, sounds like you are close on the FD64-630b2.

jamesbond
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#23 Post by jamesbond »

Ted Dog wrote:Could really use PovRay, would you tell me how you compiled it on ARM, how long it took to get to the stage you reported back.
I didn't get 3.6 to compile yet because of libpng16 conflicts and can't seem to find any patches around it. I haven't tried 3.7RC due to lack of time :( I have a ton of stuff I want to compile there too but Reality (tm) is taking over at the moment.
I think it can compile without 3rd party image support libraries, I could feed the raw bitmap into an existing ARM graphic editor to compress.
Yes you can I think, but it's really annoying to compile it withouth tiff/png support. On another news, I've got netpbm to compile and it is now on the repo.
Oh, one more thing is the distributed compile code stuff in FDAa3 and/or hopefully FD630rc? If not please add the pair in next rollouts, sounds like you are close on the FD64-630b2.
They are both in FatdogArm repo (distcc and distcc-helper) and Fatdog64 repo (distcc and cross-gcc), instruction here.
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

Sage
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#24 Post by Sage »

FatdogArm meta-distribution can be used for any ARM platform/device capable of ARMv7-A, VFPv3-d32 and NEON.
The original Raspbian distribution contained a Puppy version. It works well. Rpi is ARM11, v6 compatible.
Rpi is the market leader by an huge margin, worldwide with massive development of peripherals and co-developments with Arduino and Beagleboard interfacing. Expect to read a lot more - it has legs!
Why focus on the Mele?

jamesbond
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#25 Post by jamesbond »

Sage wrote:Why focus on the Mele?
The focus isn't on Mele. Mele was just a development platform (to compile stuff, etc). It would be impossibly slow to compile stuff on Raspi. As you have quoted, the target platform for FatdogArm is:
FatdogArm meta-distribution can be used for any ARM platform/device capable of ARMv7-A, VFPv3-d32 and NEON.
Mele is one of those, but FatdogArm is not only for Mele. We have it running on Qemu, Cubieboard2 (A20), OLPC XO-4 (Marvell PXA2128 SoC), some forums members have it running for MK802ii, etc. In the future I will lower the bar to VFPv3-d16 without NEON to support lesser endowed platforms, but I won't go lower than ARMv7, not for FatdogArm.
The original Raspbian distribution contained a Puppy version. It works well. Rpi is ARM11, v6 compatible.
Rpi is the market leader by an huge margin, worldwide with massive development of peripherals and co-developments with Arduino and Beagleboard interfacing. Expect to read a lot more - it has legs!
I have technical and philosophical concerns with Raspi.
The technical concerns:
- Raspi is mainly a (closed-source) GPU, with an weak, low-end ARM CPU tacked onto it.
- The ARM CPU is ARMv6, which is an older generation architecture. All newer performance-targeted ARM SoCs designs are ARMv7 (Cortex, Snapdragon, Kraith, Armada, PXA, etc) for good reason. Sure SoC companies still design and make a lot of ARMv6 (or even ARMv5) chips as well, but they aren't meant for performance applications; they are meant for embedded stuff (routers, NAS controllers, etc).
- The ARM CPU on Raspi is running at 700MHz - this is *slow*. (Don't compare it with Pentium 3 running at 700MHz - clock per clock, ARMv6 is far much slower than Pentium 3).
- The initial version of Raspi had only 256MB RAM.

All in all this makes Raspi a very weak platform for desktop replacement (which is FatdogArm's target). Sure it may be able to play 1080p HD video or run 3D Quake3 because of its excellent GPU, but that has nothing to do with its general purpose computing performance (which is performed by its ARM part) - which is poor.
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

Sage
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#26 Post by Sage »

Thanks for all that, jb. What puzzled me was that BK had already done the porting/compiling for Rpi which must've been some considerable effort. You are right about lack of performance, but Rpi is focussing on HW development like sensors, switching and general IF-ing along with coding-for-kids, including machine level. We desperately need to educate a new generation of binary-capable & assembler writers as those skills are disappearing fast now that 60's & 70's wannabes are retiring!
Bonus if one can get a squint at the Interweb with these devices. Maybe leave the consumer end of the biz for Android, though?
Rpi is now being issued with 512Mb. 700 is slow but the boot process allows modest overclocking. More aggressive performance may be possible by fitting the custom HS. Should be OK as the ARMs have plenty of thermal headroom.

JackWagon
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Network speed

#27 Post by JackWagon »

I have my Mele A2000 loaded with FatdogArm. The network configuration is slower than my android network connection.

terminal command:
dmesg | grep -i duplex
reports:

[ 30.850000] wemac wemac.0: eth0: link up, 10Mbps, half-duplex, lpa 0x0021

how can I get to: 100Mbps full-duplex?

thanks,
JW

jamesbond
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#28 Post by jamesbond »

JW,

Install ethtool from the repo then try this:

Code: Select all

ethtool -s eth0 speed 100 duplex full
Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

jamesbond
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Joined: Mon 26 Feb 2007, 05:02
Location: The Blue Marble

#29 Post by jamesbond »

Fatdog64 forum links: [url=http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=117546]Latest version[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/ke8sn5H]Contributed packages[/url] | [url=https://cutt.ly/se8scrb]ISO builder[/url]

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