Puppy webserver - LOW POWER CONSUMPTION

[greengeek]

***EDIT : pay particular attention to upgrading openssl and also bash to get around heartbleed and shellshock issues which cause risk to servers***

Sometime during this upcoming year I hope to build a puppy based webserver that will run 24hrs a day and which will need to use the LEAST POSSIBLE POWER CONSUMPTION as I will be driving it with solar panels and a small battery bank

This webserver will probably not be used for downloading of large files, it is more likely to be used to serve up a few "online business cards" - ie: pages that offer information regarding contact info for specific small businesses, but without any ecommerce or other fancies. Really basic.

I am looking for suggestions regarding the following:

1) Which lowpower hardware is guaranteed to run the necessary software? eg: the Raspberry Pi seems like an obvious choice, but I don't know if the initial bugs been sorted out enough for such a project? Are the Raspberry Pi power instabilities now sorted? Which puppy would be recommended for the Pi as a webserver?

2) Are there other types of hardware that are not generally suitable for use with puppy, but which would do a better job for this project? (I've seen some usb sticklike TV plugins that are Android I think). Do they work? Could they be converted to puppy?

3) Which hardware will run 'headless'? Can any server be used in a headless mode or do I need to plan for a specialist cli-only pup?

4) Will the hardware be capable of self-booting if my batteries go flat and come back up to running voltage some hours or days later. I can handle the battery side of things but not so sure about what hardware has the ability to selfstart without human interaction.

5) What protocols do I need to use?

6) Could I remotely program / load / configure such hardware? (I know I can load a puppy using PXE viia a crossover network cable from a running puppy, but can this be done over the internet?)

Probably the webserver side of this project is relatively straightforward but I am still keen to hear from anyone who has actually done something similar or who can help me weigh up the merits of the various methods.

Even if you don't have time to offer comments I am keen for any relevant links to be posted here for future reference.

Thanks!

I have found some links for starters:

***EDIT : pay particular attention to upgrading openssl and also bash to get around heartbleed and shellshock issues which cause risk to servers***

http://puppylinux.org/wikka/Hiawatha
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=37109
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=60681
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/archive/index ... 76237.html


Other links for reference/review

Webserverpuppy threads:
http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.p ... ede234d88d
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=43285
http://www.simplemachines.org/community ... c=369462.0
http://412collection.co.uk/b-bones.php (has download links for two versions of Webserverpuppy at very bottom of page)

xrdp info (might be useful for remote connection/control):
http://www.xrdp.org/

Hiawatha:
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/HiawathaServerMySQL
http://www.hiawatha-webserver.org/
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90470 Hiawatha and Precise

Joomla?
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... &start=128

Hardware possibilities:
- Mini-itx etc:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 670#505670
- Raspberry Pi?
- ARM based tablet?
- Odroid?? http://hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php

My current preferences:
Hardware: - Raspberry Pi (Model B)
OS: -
Special software: -
.

[amigo]

Why not use a real server distro instead of trying to mold puppy into something it is definitely not meant to be?

[ally]

raspberry pi webserver, low power.....just a thought....

http://raspberrywebserver.com/

[mikeb]

Agreed...hacking puppy into a headless webserver can be frustrating and ultimately disappointing. Removing the X modules from slax, adding a lammp stack would give a better result and that's only a half silly suggestion.

As for starting up from a power loss I think I have only seen that as a bios option which logically it would be. Wake from LAN might be useable too.

Interesting link on the pi

mike

[Ted Dog]

oddly my mele1000a will restart after power failure. also will run Play videos from HD For 19 plus hours off phone charger. and run a version of Fatdog perfectly. I have it wired for a wheel chair battery via phone charger and with my two solar cells (250w total, when CLEANED) run every thing.
I ve been running with solar for.sometime in my RV Stay away from glass solar panels. LOST ALL BUT ONE do to breakage. Now only buy the flexible ones that roll up and can be stored in the under bed. The roll up ones are made with a tar backing for metal roofs. But have a backing paper that I left on. so far it was dropped of truck before delivery. horrible road rash and enbedded rocks from pavement but still works.Had a calf walk on it and lick it hoof prints are pressed in the plastic like surface but no damage also use a shunt type solar controller and never use a pwm if you want to run equipment while its charging.

[mikeb]

Flexible solar cellss... they sound handy

One other power option is those 12v to ATX converters.... efficient small and cheap (ebay) and might be useful combined with a low power ITX board...not as low as a Pi but still only a few watts here and there especially if idling and not running high level graphics.

Otherwise parhaps a netbook with the screen disabled (or broken from ebay).... ready for 12v and low power again.

mike

[Ted Dog]

Flexible solar cellss... they sound handy

One other power option is those 12v to ATX converters.... efficient small and cheap (ebay) and might be useful combined with a low power ITX board...not as low as a Pi but still only a few watts here and there especially if idling and not running high level graphics.

Otherwise parhaps a netbook with the screen disabled (or broken from ebay).... ready for 12v and low power again.

mike

12v to computer power supplys are pricy. where an andriod device that can run a version of linux could fill the bill and run cheaper. a thin client could also be repurposed one I had ran from a 12v brick powersupply and cf card. now notebook idea is good. I did.have one running from a solar panel directly but charge rate and high/low voltage cutouts made it last only 6hours per day. but with a car charger and a large battery could make it longer. but at a greatly increased price and lacked portability.

[Ted Dog]

flexible.rollup.solar.are made.for.metal.roofs and are just slighty more expensive than the smaller much less wattage rollup solar panels used for.camping. just fyi.

[Ted Dog]

http://www.motherearthnews.com/renewabl ... power.aspx

here is an example.of.what.I use. looks like the exact ones based on the connectors seen.

[Ted Dog]

if you have enough solar to run in series to around 220Vs you can run DIRECTLY from VDc with a switching power supply in the 220v settings. ha ha never tested this in practice but its true according to the Internet

[greengeek]

Thanks all for the comments. Very helpful.

Why not use a real server distro instead of trying to mold puppy into something it is definitely not meant to be?

Would you have a recommendation for an appropriate distro? (I know you have your own linux version - is that a possibility for this use?). Is puppy just too difficult to set up for this task, or lacking in protocols, or is running as root a bad idea for this purpose?

http://raspberrywebserver.com/

Excellent link. Thanks Ally.

Stay away from glass solar panels. LOST ALL BUT ONE do to breakage. Now only buy the flexible ones

Most of my panels are glassfront monocrystalline but I also have two 60 w flexible amorphous panels (hard to find in NZ...) and I have them all arranged as a mixture of 12v and 24v systems. Biggest problem I have found is the crystalline panels don't start outputting on overcast days - whereas the amorphous flexible ones start generating at much lower light intensities. I now have the amorphous panels facing one East and one West to collect the low intensity early morning and late evening light and the crystalline panels facing North (your northern hemisphere equivalent of southfacing...). Wish I could get more high wattage flexible panels...

also use a shunt type solar controller and never use a pwm if you want to run equipment while its charging.

Thats good advice. I switched to pwm and mppt because they are supposed to be more efficient but I can't tell you how many cheap 12v powered appliances and fluoro bulbs I've had to replace early. So many of them have 16v capacitors which is just stupid. Might be time for me to go back to the shunt style chargers.

One other power option is those 12v to ATX converters....

You've reminded me that I have one of those tucked away in the back room. Never did find a cheap enough itx though. I should look into this again.

Otherwise parhaps a netbook with the screen disabled (or broken from ebay).... ready for 12v and low power again.

Yeah, good option. I've seen the odd busted netbook on offer fairly cheap. I wonder what percentage of netbook power consumption is the screen? Maybe I could fit a switch to cut power to the backlight inverter.

[greengeek]

if you have enough solar to run in series to around 220Vs you can run DIRECTLY from VDc with a switching power supply in the 220v settings. ha ha never tested this in practice but its true according to the Internet

I reckon anyone who tried this must have balls bigger than Texas

[Ted Dog]

most laptops can be told to turn off screen with a flag setting in /proc

[mikeb]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-DC-DC-ATX ... 3cd72cd9bc
was referring to these things ~$20 and probably cheaper in the US

mike

[greengeek]

Yes, thats the type of power adapter I've got. Cost me $50 in NZ a couple of years ago - just couldn't find a mini itx mobo for less than $100 and it seemed rather steep at that price so I went no further at the time.

[EDIT :] Just dragged out my previous attempt at a standalone solar powered PC. I seem to recall the main problems (other than the 4Amp draw of the screen...) were the mobo needed too much current and I couldn't find an easy way to make it self-boot after power loss.

Ted Dog - do you think all Mele's do what yours was doing with the auto reboot or did you have a special setup?

[Ted Dog]

mixed battery / mix solar cell systems. I just read that your can charge batteries that are strung in series ACROSS individual batteries with solar and its better for the batteries since series run batterys will always be unbalanced when charged across full string.

my RV is two golf cart 6v and I wonder if my shunt types ( have two, for on the road spare ) can be dropped to 6v. it automatically adjust 24/12 systems. My flex cell solar can put out 4v in full moon not sure of amps so I lost a few hours of amps between battery voltage cutout and that would be high enough to charge @ 6v

[amigo]

Is puppy just too difficult to set up for this task, or lacking in protocols, or is running as root a bad idea for this purpose?

Basically, yes, yes and yes.

Probably the best thing would be debian stable. You could make nearly any mainstream distro work, after hardening it some, but I'd avoid any LiveCD-based thing, ubuntu and any other desktop-oriented distro. A small cli-only debian or slackware installation would make the best starting point and get in your way the least.

[mikeb]

Fair enough... got to work with the technology available at a sensible price. I get stuff mainly from hong kong as its so much cheaper than here.

mike

[greengeek]

so I lost a few hours of amps between battery voltage cutout and that would be high enough to charge @ 6v

I've had a similar thought myself - it's easier to find charge current for a 6v battery than a 12v one. I have tested stepper motors as a source of easy charge current but the voltage is often no more than 7 or 8 volts which would be fine for 6V batts but not so much use on 12v unless I used something like the joule thief idea.
http://rimstar.org/science_electronics_ ... ircuit.htm

[Ted Dog]

I was hoping to hang 5v running stuff off of one of the 6v batteries. so differental charging is a must. Im looking forward to the coming 3.7v USB3 powered tablets as a real solution. I want to run my mele1000 as a wget downloader and file server wifi access point directly wired to my RV. got to pay for the bandwidth on the road so a outbound webserver would not be ideal.
I also try to avoid maintaining solar cells when on the RV roof, So choice of bigger solar and simple and cheap shunt charge controller (17 $) to keep my equipment happy. Shunt charge controllers are easier to find down under.