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wboz
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#541 Post by wboz »

I have been following this thread with interest and intentionally not posting until now.

The suggestion to provide an XP alternative is a good one. This is a dream that a lot of distros have, but no others can offer a full-functioning system that does not require the user to mess with partitioning and system install. Make your USB key in windows, change your BIOS boot order, and voila you have a new OS up and running.

Puppy is not going to capture an immense amount of users migrating off XP - I expect those people are relatively uninformed and want a turnkey solution. In one sense Puppy is "turnkey" in that it gets up and running first time, and within the Linux world that is exceptional, right? Within the mainstream OS world, that is only table stakes. Also expected is clear and aesthetically pleasing documentation, and a coherent user interface. And then on top of that, how do you stand out among the huge marketing blast from Microsoft and Best Buy and Apple and Google and Ubuntu?

But that's not worth getting upset over. The point is to capture people on the margin. There are also going to be plenty of people who are older and actually knowledgable about computers, and are looking for simple and cost effective solutions. They may want to keep their older .. but not that old .. computers that has a 2GHz Pentium and 1GB RAM. These aren't ancient machines and would actually run well under many Linux distros. I expect that if you put a copy of Puppy in front of them they'd be very pleased!

The needs of the migrating XP user probably aren't exactly in line with what I MYSELF want from a Puppy CE, but it's an interesting new user set to think about attracting :)

darry1966

#542 Post by darry1966 »

wanderer wrote:i like the xp replacement idea. one could make a iso that runs on both (most) old computers and xp machines. i use a xp machine for 214x9 and it runs great.

by the way, i also run 214x9 on a windows 7 machine and it runs great

you could even advertise CE on distrowatch as an xp (and 7) replacement
that should get a lot of people involved in puppy

wanderer
214X will be ok as long as xorg is upgraded. XP replacement sounds good.

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ally
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#543 Post by ally »

there is a fork of simplicity (subdivision) which is aimed at windows users

http://sourceforge.net/projects/subdivision

:)

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mikeslr
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pUPnGo No! racy on with racy 5.5

#544 Post by mikeslr »

Hi all,
I heartily encourage support for pUPnGo. But not as a Community Edition for several reasons.
pUPnGo is probably essential reading and experimenting by anyone interested in eliminating excess by truly understanding how each piece of Puppy contributes to the whole. But it started as an idea for porting a Linux OS to embedded systems. It evolved to some extent because others saw its potential as operating system using minimal resources. I doubt if anyone working on it ever considered it something for “mass distribution.
Last edited by mikeslr on Sat 14 Dec 2013, 00:25, edited 1 time in total.

jpeps
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#545 Post by jpeps »

ally wrote:there is a fork of simplicity (subdivision) which is aimed at windows users

http://sourceforge.net/projects/subdivision

:)
Here's the most likely solution for windows users:


"Upgrading from Windows XP to Windows 7"

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... 7#T1=tab01



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technosaurus
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#546 Post by technosaurus »

Re: pupngo
FWIW Recent work has been toward generating a static built multicall binaries for the most essential desktop tools (X,jwm,rxvt,rox,dillo,beaver,etc...). This makes it ideal to build against _any_ distro's packages but a bad package update can (virtually) never corrupt the base ("safe mode") system.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

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mikeslr
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Here's another way to upgrade

#547 Post by mikeslr »

jpeps wrote: "Upgrading from Windows XP to Windows 7"
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... 7#T1=tab01

Why not spend $65+ to install an operating system which requires twice the RAM and a faster CPU than your computer was designed for in order to have a computer which runs slow as dirt?

Here's a better solution: https://www.google.com/shopping/product ... KQHEKYrMA8

Or maybe try Puppy Linux Community Edition for free.

mikesLr

jpeps
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Re: Here's another way to upgrade

#548 Post by jpeps »

mikeslr wrote:
Here's a better solution: https://www.google.com/shopping/product ... KQHEKYrMA8


mikesLr
That would certainly be my solution. Time for a new computer. Puppy won't handle everything that I use. I recall reading that some major companies have been upgrading to windows 7..which might be more cost effective for them. Windows 7 should be good through 2020.

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Geoffrey
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#549 Post by Geoffrey »

Hi guy's,

What about BarryK's quirky-5.99, well not as it is, but there are the T2 packages that were used to build it, maybe something could be done with those,
http://distro.ibiblio.org/quirky/quirky ... 2/quirky6/

It uses glibc-2.17, could this be used and built as a conventional Puppy, if so that would make it a true Puppy that would require a repo of it's own.

Just a thought, I could be talking out of my hat as I've never built a puppy with woof.
[b]Carolina:[/b] [url=http://smokey01.com/carolina/pages/recent-repo.html]Recent Repository Additions[/url]
[img]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/ahfade8q4def1lq/signbot.gif[/img]

wanderer
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#550 Post by wanderer »

I would humbly like to continue to advocate for using the pup and go system as the base for CE.

I feel it is a significant improvement on Barry Ks basic puppy system, while retaining all the power and flexibility inherent in the original system. The static linking of the core and applications and the linking of sfs and 2fs files allows for unprecedented independence and modularity of the components and this will allow us to realistically make whatever variation we desire.

We can then produce a finished iso that the newcomer can just use without needing to be aware of the complexity of the underlying structure. If later the user wishes to learn more and modify the iso it will be relatively easy to do so.

The independence and relatively small size of the components will allow us the develop and maintain them much more easily and one person or team will be able to concentrate on a single component (for example a browser) without being overly concerned with the other components.

just my opinion
thanks for your consideration

wanderer

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ttuuxxx
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#551 Post by ttuuxxx »

Hi Guys I haven't been on here in almost 2yrs,So I figured this would be a great place to say high :) I've been thinking of coming back and helping out with puppy again, my daughter is almost 3 now and I'm starting to have more free time.

I've been involved with every CE edition other than 1 series and If another CE happens, I would be happy to participate. I haven't compiled in almost 2 years either, lol Probably a bit rust but I'll get it.
Jeff
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

wanderer
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#552 Post by wanderer »

hey ttuuxxx
its awesome to see you back
i use your 214 as my main iso
it is the best
as is all your other work
we are not worthy

wanderer

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mikeslr
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pUPnGo & quirky 6 packages

#553 Post by mikeslr »

Hi again,

FWIW, technosaurus's opinion is worth far more than mine. If he thinks that a distributable Pup can be developed with pUPnGo, and wanderer is keen to try, than what do we have to loose? Time, and its an illusion anyway.

The T2 packages for quirky-5.99 was a nice find, Geoffrey. Anxious to find out more about quirky-5.99 I failed to note its number and accidentally down loaded, read the menu.lst instructions for quirky 5.4.91 and booted into it. It uses a 3.8 kernel. But as the release notes mentioned something about having everything loaded into ram and not using unions I was surprised when at shutdown it had a routine for creating a SaveFile. [I had already been surprised that although it was quirky, the desktop said racy but I checked, rebooted and got the same result]. Despite "creating" a SaveFile it was nowhere to be found. The release notes said it was "rough" and many applications were vestigial or broken.
Found quirky-5.99, but could find no way to safely boot into it. Its a special built for use with SD cards, having its own install instructions.
The most I can make of this is that Barry K has been busy during the last year building T2 binaries. It would be nice if we could make use of them.

So, where do we go from here? Wanderer, technosaurus, other Devs, how do we go from tossing around ideas, to setting up a structure and organization for turning those ideas into a Pup?

ttuuxxx, great to see you back. I am more hopeful of our success than ever.

mikesLr

p.s. jpeps -- you're almost completely right. Android devises are the wave of the future. For those who can afford them. 40% of Americans live at or below the poverty level. $65 is a weeks food. Most of the third world lives at the subsistence level or below. A half million tons of computers end up in landfills each year in the US alone. In the US gifts to charities are tax deductible. What's really needed is an infra-structure to direct "obsolete" computers to Boys & Girls Clubs, PALS, libraries, Church/Synagog/Mosques-run charitable organizations --along the way wiping HardDrives, and installing free operating systems-- for distribution to those who need them, if for no other reason than to provide them with access to "jobs" "How To's" "Online-Tutorials." And perhaps after-school programs where kids can learn computer fundamentals, or use them to compose music or whatever. Knowledge is a powerful thing. We waste the potential of most of our children.
I know. I'm a dreamer. I can't help thinking "of things which never were and asking why not?"
Last edited by mikeslr on Wed 18 Dec 2013, 15:11, edited 1 time in total.

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ttuuxxx
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#554 Post by ttuuxxx »

wanderer wrote:hey ttuuxxx
its awesome to see you back
i use your 214 as my main iso
it is the best
as is all your other work
we are not worthy

wanderer
I'm still using 2.14X as my main multimedia OS for the TV room, Its great on a 50" LED tv using HDMI input. I never stopped using 2.14X. Hopefully as this CE moves forward I might have a new replacement.
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

gcmartin

Puppy needs attractiveness to those who have other OSes

#555 Post by gcmartin »

On the subject of Puppy CE to attract Windows users, see this thread.

New membership can indeed find comfort in this community. .... with a little help and thoughtfulness from us.

I hope we can address ease of understanding and a robust starting package to exploit the RAM in more than 99% of all PCs ever manufactured since 1995. A 2nd approach could be to focus on a robust 64bit CE distro.

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ttuuxxx
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Re: Puppy needs attractiveness to those who have other OSes

#556 Post by ttuuxxx »

gcmartin wrote:On the subject of Puppy CE to attract Windows users, see this thread.

New membership can indeed find comfort in this community. .... with a little help and thoughtfulness from us.

I hope we can address ease of understanding and a robust starting package to exploit the RAM in more than 99% of all PCs ever manufactured since 1995. A 2nd approach could be to focus on a robust 64bit CE distro.
The 64 bit is an real world idea, but people tend to come to puppy for speed for older kits, Plus we don't have much, if any 64 bit apps compiled on a server, so it would be like starting from scratch unless we base it on a well known 64 bit distro, which will bring a lot of bloat in our backend. I'm in any which way it goes, but I do have a preference for keeping older pc's up and going. There's a lot of 3rd world countries that use puppy daily. but 64 bit also should have a solid place in puppy
ttuuxxx
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

darry1966

#557 Post by darry1966 »

I believe Fatdog caters for 64bit and Lighthouse.

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ttuuxxx
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#558 Post by ttuuxxx »

darry1966 wrote:I believe Fatdog caters for 64bit and Lighthouse.
yes he does and has done a great job with that, but we are talking hundreds of custom compiled apps.
It wouldn't be based on his version, a complete different backend. Sure some might work, some might have errors, it would make the Ce a unstable version if we went down that route to recycle his apps.
Its always best to compile with the glibc, gtk, x-server being used to keep things stable.
Jeff
http://audio.online-convert.com/ <-- excellent site
http://samples.mplayerhq.hu/A-codecs/ <-- Codec Test Files
http://html5games.com/ <-- excellent HTML5 games :)

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technosaurus
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#559 Post by technosaurus »

ttuuxxx wrote:Its always best to compile with the glibc, gtk, x-server being used to keep things stable.
Unless you are building a multi-distro package. You should build against the oldest supported versions with the implied social contract that newer versions are not supposed to break things compiled against older versions (though someone needs to inform the gtk folks).

This BS is why we can't run Chrome on some pups, why people using Redhat, CentOS and Debian can't run Dart... google just doesn't get it and seem to be perpetuating their flawed logic. Don't be a victim.
Check out my [url=https://github.com/technosaurus]github repositories[/url]. I may eventually get around to updating my [url=http://bashismal.blogspot.com]blogspot[/url].

jpeps
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#560 Post by jpeps »

technosaurus wrote:
ttuuxxx wrote:Its always best to compile with the glibc, gtk, x-server being used to keep things stable.
Unless you are building a multi-distro package. You should build against the oldest supported versions with the implied social contract that newer versions are not supposed to break things compiled against older versions (though someone needs to inform the gtk folks).
Right, programs that use new features won't work correctly..same as with any software development. I just added a feature onto an android app, and was informed that older versions won't support it. Many of us used gtkdialog features not available in older versions...which is why we asked for them.

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