Carolina - 1.3

For talk and support relating specifically to Puppy derivatives
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starhawk
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#1181 Post by starhawk »

Got it going... seems to work fine. Surprises the heck out of me, but if it works, it works, I guess.

Would be nice to have a newer Chrome... my history disappeared because this Chrome is too old to import it. Pain in the tail to remember the URLs of my usual haunts, amusingly enough...

...but then again I tried upping glibc to 2.15 (used an Ubuntu *.deb) and it BFE'd.

can8v
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Media Transfer Protocol (MTP)

#1182 Post by can8v »

Hello all,
I have found the best way to connect my Nexus 7 is to use a Samba server on the Carolina machine and a Samba Client on the Nexus 7. This is not the easiest to set up, but after setup it works well and I don't have to keep track of any cables. I have however already seen another post from somebody trying puppy out that was perplexed as to why they couldn't connect their Nexus 7 via USB. "It worked in Ubuntu". After some research I discovered that KDE comes with MTP support. In Puppy however, the Nexus 7 incorrectly reports that it is connected as a "Media Device". only after you dig into the settings do you discover that it thinks it is connected using MTP. All fairly recent puppies I am aware of support PTP connections for the Camera in the Nexus 7 and that works fine, but for general file transfer MTP is required.
I did some research (the wiki at Arch Linux was very helpful) and found that Thunar supports gvfs and gvfs has support for MTP.
Carolina is apparently built with some of the gvfs backend modules, but not the one for MTP. This is a shame as it seems to be the only component missing to have support for connecting all MP3 players, tablets, phones, etc. that use MTP over their USB connection. When other OS such as Windoze and Ubuntu support this is makes Puppy appear broken. This seems like a fairly simple thing to add, but I am not sure how to make it work. I saw a pet in the package manager for gvfs, but I was unsure if it included the mtp backend module or just the modules that are already included in Carolina 1.1. Can I just install that PET and then mount the device in Thunar? I was considering that, but it will overwrite all of the gvfs modules already in Carolina. I am not sure if that is a good thing or not, as I don't know which version is already in Carolina. A little guidance here would be appreciated.
***Edit***
I booted into Carolina pfix=ram then installed the gvfs pet from the PPM, which I suspect includes only the modules that are already included in Carolina 1.1. MTP still doesn't work nor does FTP from Thunar. That or I am doing something wrong here. I figured it wouldn't hurt and if it did I wouldn't be creating a save file anyway.
The best I can tell, there are a few backend modules for gvfs that would be really nice to have. MTP for mounting usb connected devices that require MTP, FTP and SFTP, so I can use Thunar for FTP rather than FireFTP (no longer need Firefox, could switch to Slimboat), and DAV as Web Dav sometimes comes in handy (assuming that is what the DAV backend module is for). I found instructions for compiling gvfs, but nothing for compiliing the backend modules, which are apparently distributed separately. Perhaps somebody here can point me in the right direction or provide a pet. Anyone know who set up the smb backend for gvfs in Carolina, that works great and probably similar steps to get the other backend modules working.

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Geoffrey
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#1183 Post by Geoffrey »

@ can8v

The gvfs with thunar started with Saluki http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 621#658621 it was a bit of a hack but works, so we used that in Carolina, it maybe possible to do as you require, you are the first to mention it, will have to read up on what was done in the first place , if memory serves me correctly I think we only added the missing files and didn't overwrite any existing one's.
[b]Carolina:[/b] [url=http://smokey01.com/carolina/pages/recent-repo.html]Recent Repository Additions[/url]
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starhawk
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#1184 Post by starhawk »

This little netbook sure does have some quirks.

CaroLite 1.1 will not shut down properly.

It writes to the savefile but never gets farther than that. In fact, the text on the screen, 20+ minutes later, still is just the "Carolina is now shutting down" and "writing session to savefile" text. It finishes, but doesn't know it.

Probably something weird to do with ACPI, but I thought I'd let folks know about it.

This is (as always) an ASUS 1000HEB netbook with 2gb RAM and a 64gb SSD. CaroLite 1.1 was installed frugally (IIRC there's not much choice :P ) to the SSD.

can8v
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#1185 Post by can8v »

Geoffrey wrote:@ can8v

The gvfs with thunar started with Saluki http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 621#658621 it was a bit of a hack but works, so we used that in Carolina, it maybe possible to do as you require, you are the first to mention it, will have to read up on what was done in the first place , if memory serves me correctly I think we only added the missing files and didn't overwrite any existing one's.
Ok I have looked into this further and it appears that While Thunar does have the code necessary to mount MTP devices, it does so using libmtp, gvfs, and the gvfs-mtp backend. It is designed to use something called gio (I haven't looked into this yet), but it can apparently optionally use FUSE when gio is not available. From what I can gather gio or FUSE is needed from each of the backend modules (ie. gvfs-ftp, gvfs-smb, etc.), so since gvfs-smb is already working in Carolina, I can only assume that one or the other or both are installed somewhere in Carolina. I found several version of the libmtp library and gvfs-mtp backend module for gvfs packaged as source and as .deb packages. So far none of the combinations I have tried have produced working MTP in Thunar. I am admittedly a little confused by the version numbering system (ie. unrelated version numbers for libmtp and gvfs-mtp backend module). I don't know which versions are compatible with each other.
While this seemed be a somewhat simple fix at first, it now seems a bit more complex. I will look into it again tomorrow.

can8v
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#1186 Post by can8v »

Ok I couldn't put this MTP issue to bed just yet. I am determined to make this work. Anyway I Installed the gnomad2.pet packaged which includes the libmtp and support for data transfer to mtp devices, however; it did not work in Carolina. I plugged in the Nexus 7 and gnomad2 said that it was scanning /root for quite some time then displayed relevant content from /root and said it was scanning the media library for over 30 minutes during which time my Nexus 7 said that MTP had stopped unexpectedly. After 30 minutes or so I killed the gnomad2 process as the app was locked up and wouldn't close. Then I installed the entire gvfs-backend deb package hoping it would work with the libmtp ver. 1.6.1 that was included with the gnomad2.pet pa ckage. It did not work because, it was compiled with support for gphoto2 and something else (which I already forgot). At any rate Thunar took almost 15 seconds to load after that, so I decided to see what was going on by launching it from the terminal you can see the result in the attached screenshot. Can somebody either tell me how to compile gvfs backend without support for these items or point me in the direction of a tutorial for such.
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ac2011
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Re: Grey/empty desktop with external monitor

#1187 Post by ac2011 »

Geoffrey wrote:
ac2011 wrote: When connecting an external monitor via D-sub VGA cable, the desktop is wiped, no background shows and it's not possible to right-click on it.
I tried this connecting to my TV via D-sub VGA, yes I get this also, I did try connecting the cable after the laptop had loaded Carolina and I had a desktop, I then used xrandr to select the TV, this gave me a screen but as you have described it then maxed out the CPU activity, this as me baffled, I wouldn't even know where to start.
A little more information now. The problem with the external monitor seems to be with xfdesktop: its CPU utilisation goes nuts. Installing the full Xorg PET doesn't help (in fact it stops Xorg working). I can use Xvesa and get two displays, but only at 1024x768.

I tried to killall xfdesktop but it restarts itself. After a bit of searching I found this, which might be related. It has a link to a patch.

https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=8119

Does that shed any light? I'd love to get Carolina running on this machine.

can8v
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Re: Grey/empty desktop with external monitor

#1188 Post by can8v »

ac2011 wrote:
Geoffrey wrote:
ac2011 wrote: When connecting an external monitor via D-sub VGA cable, the desktop is wiped, no background shows and it's not possible to right-click on it.
I tried this connecting to my TV via D-sub VGA, yes I get this also, I did try connecting the cable after the laptop had loaded Carolina and I had a desktop, I then used xrandr to select the TV, this gave me a screen but as you have described it then maxed out the CPU activity, this as me baffled, I wouldn't even know where to start.
A little more information now. The problem with the external monitor seems to be with xfdesktop: its CPU utilisation goes nuts. Installing the full Xorg PET doesn't help (in fact it stops Xorg working). I can use Xvesa and get two displays, but only at 1024x768.

I tried to killall xfdesktop but it restarts itself. After a bit of searching I found this, which might be related. It has a link to a patch.

https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=8119

Does that shed any light? I'd love to get Carolina running on this machine.
I will be looking into this soon, as I also have an interest in getting this fixed. No guarantees, as I am not sure where to start with this either.

ac2011
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Re: Grey/empty desktop with external monitor

#1189 Post by ac2011 »

can8v wrote:
ac2011 wrote:
Geoffrey wrote: I tried this connecting to my TV via D-sub VGA, yes I get this also, I did try connecting the cable after the laptop had loaded Carolina and I had a desktop, I then used xrandr to select the TV, this gave me a screen but as you have described it then maxed out the CPU activity, this as me baffled, I wouldn't even know where to start.
A little more information now. The problem with the external monitor seems to be with xfdesktop: its CPU utilisation goes nuts. Installing the full Xorg PET doesn't help (in fact it stops Xorg working). I can use Xvesa and get two displays, but only at 1024x768.

I tried to killall xfdesktop but it restarts itself. After a bit of searching I found this, which might be related. It has a link to a patch.

https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=8119

Does that shed any light? I'd love to get Carolina running on this machine.
I will be looking into this soon, as I also have an interest in getting this fixed. No guarantees, as I am not sure where to start with this either.
Getting somewhere:

install rox from repository
mv /usr/bin/xfdesktop /usr/bin/xfdesktop_old
killall xfdesktop
rox -p default

I now have a basic desktop (rox) and can run on an external monitor without mad CPU usage. It's ugly, though, because I'm sure xfce4-session (or something) is trying like mad to re-start xfdesktop. Trouble is I can't work out where to tell it to stop trying.

xfdesktop is version 4.10.0. I think an upgrade would fix this.

Edit: some more thoughts. Doing the above but also creating a small shell script at /usr/bin/xfdesktop containing:

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
while [ 1==1 ]
   do
   sleep 99999
done
allows xfce4-session to satisfy its desire to reload xfdesktop if it's not in memory.

Rox pinboard is fine for me, though there are no drive icons. Thunar can handle volume mounting, or I seem to remember there's a PET somewhere on the forum for doing so.

This is all just a workaround, but it means I can actually use Carolina with an external display from my laptop now.

Edit again: this works even better as the contents for /usr/bin/xfdesktop

Code: Select all

#!/bin/sh
while [ 1==1 ]
   do
   rox -p /root/Choices/ROX-Filer/PuppyPin
   sleep 999999
done
Image attached, with the desktop_drive_icons package from elsewhere on this forum. This works fine for me.
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Geoffrey
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Re: Grey/empty desktop with external monitor

#1190 Post by Geoffrey »

@ac2011,

I'm still trying to find the problem, but it's a ever so slow task, I did recompile xfdesktop but it has a bug that I can't find a fix for, jemimah did fix this but left no clue as to what she did, the problem is that dragging menu entries to the desktop removes them from the menu where it needs to just copy them to the desktop, the current version of xfdesktop in /usr/bin is from saluki which worked fine until you found it's downfall.

Did Saluki have the monitor problem? if not then may need to look elsewhere.

I'm calling on anyone that may have a lead to what the problem may be, rg66 and myself have very limited capabilities, as we are constantly learning as we go.

I compiled the desktop drives icons you mention in Carolina.
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[b]Carolina:[/b] [url=http://smokey01.com/carolina/pages/recent-repo.html]Recent Repository Additions[/url]
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ac2011
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Re: Grey/empty desktop with external monitor

#1191 Post by ac2011 »

Thanks Geoffrey. I compiled 0.0.5 - must have missed 0.0.6.

I'm actually quite happy with the Rox desktop, as it's what I use in Fluppy anyway. Everything else seems to work (tray, Thunar, etc.).

I always had the impression Xfce was slow (I mentioned it earlier in this thread, turned out to be related to a theme problem) and I think much of that was due to xfdesktop. It seems snappier now, though that's subjective.
Geoffrey wrote:@ac2011,
Did Saluki have the monitor problem? if not then may need to look elsewhere.
I'll see if I can dig out my copy and try it.

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greengeek
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Re: Grey/empty desktop with external monitor

#1192 Post by greengeek »

Geoffrey wrote:I'm calling on anyone that may have a lead to what the problem may be, rg66 and myself have very limited capabilities, as we are constantly learning as we go.
Was it akash rawal that was working with jemimah on drive icons? I wonder if he is still active on the forum. Could he be helpful here?

ac2011
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Remaster PET doesn't work for me

#1193 Post by ac2011 »

The Remaster PET in the PPM for Carolina doesn't work for me. It creates an SFS file that seems far too small, and always on reboot results in a "kernel panic, trying to kill init" type error.

This is the same whether using smart or simple, xz or gzip compression, etc. This problem doesn't seem to be limited to Carolina: I've seen users of other recent Puppies reporting it.

So I tried the Fluppy version of the remaster script and it works fine in Carolina 1.1. Only downside is the file it creates is called 'lina-1.1.sfs' so you have to rename that to puppy_lina_1.1.sfs once it's finished.

I've attached the script here in case it's of use.

One issue with this script and with the Carolina one: you *must* make sure the device you're planning to write to is mounted *before* starting the remaster script. Otherwise the script might let you choose the device but not then mount it, resulting in a huge file being written in /mnt/whatever/ (i.e. within your save file). This can be very bad... I speak from experience.
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Geoffrey
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#1194 Post by Geoffrey »

I tried the latest xfdesktop that I compiled even thought the menu is faulty, still don't work with two monitors, the search continues.
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ac2011
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#1195 Post by ac2011 »

Geoffrey wrote:I tried the latest xfdesktop that I compiled even thought the menu is faulty, still don't work with two monitors, the search continues.
I just booted into Saluki 023, then connected an external monitor. It worked fine, no problems. xfdesktop rarely went above 6% CPU and was mostly 1-2%.

Same version number of xfdesktop as in Carolina. Perhaps Jemimah did some clever patching, or perhaps the problem is elsewhere but causing xfdesktop to display this behaviour.

Edit: I meant Saluki 023, not 013. Had Fluppy on my mind.

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rg66
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#1196 Post by rg66 »

ac2011 wrote:
Geoffrey wrote:I tried the latest xfdesktop that I compiled even thought the menu is faulty, still don't work with two monitors, the search continues.
I just booted into Saluki 023, then connected an external monitor. It worked fine, no problems. xfdesktop rarely went above 6% CPU and was mostly 1-2%.

Same version number of xfdesktop as in Carolina. Perhaps Jemimah did some clever patching, or perhaps the problem is elsewhere but causing xfdesktop to display this behaviour.

Edit: I meant Saluki 023, not 013. Had Fluppy on my mind.
As Geoffrey stated earlier, Carolina uses Saluki's xfdesktop binary (from xfce-4.10-i486.pet). We are thinking of trying the complete xfdesktop package from Saluki to see if it works.

I've used the remaster pet to build a custom Carolina for my kids and it worked. The only issue I can remember was it needed to be built on an ntfs partition.
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can8v
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#1197 Post by can8v »

ac2011 wrote:
Geoffrey wrote:I tried the latest xfdesktop that I compiled even thought the menu is faulty, still don't work with two monitors, the search continues.
I just booted into Saluki 023, then connected an external monitor. It worked fine, no problems. xfdesktop rarely went above 6% CPU and was mostly 1-2%.

Same version number of xfdesktop as in Carolina. Perhaps Jemimah did some clever patching, or perhaps the problem is elsewhere but causing xfdesktop to display this behaviour.

Edit: I meant Saluki 023, not 013. Had Fluppy on my mind.
I had the same experience in Saluki 023 last night.

ac2011
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#1198 Post by ac2011 »

rg66 wrote:I've used the remaster pet to build a custom Carolina for my kids and it worked. The only issue I can remember was it needed to be built on an ntfs partition.
Interesting constraint!

I have an odd setup: five or six SFS files loaded via sfs_load and not always from the home partition. The Fluppy remaster script handles this (writing the remaster to an Ext3 partition) but the Carolina one doesn't. I've read elsewhere on here of people reverting to remaster scripts from older Puppies for similar reasons.

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#1199 Post by can8v »

can8v wrote:
ac2011 wrote:
Geoffrey wrote:I tried the latest xfdesktop that I compiled even thought the menu is faulty, still don't work with two monitors, the search continues.
I just booted into Saluki 023, then connected an external monitor. It worked fine, no problems. xfdesktop rarely went above 6% CPU and was mostly 1-2%.

Same version number of xfdesktop as in Carolina. Perhaps Jemimah did some clever patching, or perhaps the problem is elsewhere but causing xfdesktop to display this behaviour.

Edit: I meant Saluki 023, not 013. Had Fluppy on my mind.
I had the same experience in Saluki 023 last night.
I had a little more time to tinker with this and I have come to the conclusion that this may have something to do with bios or hardware, because I tested an external monitor on three of the four laptops in my house all all three worked with Carolina1.1 booting off the cd in pfix=ram and I also tested one of them with my save file. One of the machines refused to display wallpaper on the external monitor, but in no case did any of them exceed 6%CPU usage and they were all quite zippy. In fact the laptop I turned into my Carolina media server has broken hinges and the lcd got so dim this morning I just removed it altogether and left an external monitor connected. I was concerned that it would not reboot into the external monitor mode, but those fears prooved to be unfounded. Grub doesn't come up on the extenal monitor, but once the time delay is over and Carolina begins booting as default, I soon have the remainder of the boot sequence on screen and the external monitor is simply remembered from session to session. Further more, on all the laptops the function keys worked for toggling my monitor selection. All of this was out of the box. No other distro has worked so well with my hardware.
Last edited by can8v on Fri 17 Jan 2014, 16:36, edited 2 times in total.

ac2011
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#1200 Post by ac2011 »

can8v wrote:I tested an external monitor on three of the four laptops in my house all all three worked with Carolina1.1 booting off the cd in pfix-ram and I also tested one of them with my save file.
Curiouser and curiouser...

Doesn't work here with an Asus Eee PC 900, a Fujitsu clone (possibly Uniwill L51 underneath) or a Twinhead H12Y.

All old-ish machines, all running Intel integrated graphics. I wonder if that's a factor. What graphics chips do yours use?

But Saluki does work here, at least on the Twinhead, so there is a software difference somewhere (Intel driver?).

Another step in the right direction.

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