Light-Debian-Core-Live-CD-Wheezy + Porteus-Wheezy

[Mark_C]

Thank you and all the others for your hard work !

Mark

Thanks, Mark.

...It appears once logged in as puppy I can no longer shutdown or reboot from the menu.

It is normal debian user behavior. You need to type:

Code: Select all

sudo reboot
sudo shutdown

and to confirm puppy password to shutdown or reboot.
Easy to fix this but it is considered as security risk for user account.
Still not sure we need to hack reboot and shutdown option for user.
For example the base for DebianDog: Debian-Live-Wheezy-Standard comes with account user (with password live) and no xorg installed. When I install xorg and jwm from this user account I don't get shutdown menu entry at all in JWM.
In the official debian sudo wiki I don't see an example how regular user get shutdown and reboot access. There is user added to MYADMINS group but I'm not sure it is regular user anymore:
https://wiki.debian.org/sudo

William,
can you please share your view about giving user reboot and shutdown access without sudo?

the eject cd button in the tray doesn't seem to work

Don't know way but user account need to type sudo for eject -T, mount, umount. Normal user behavior again

Run DebianDog as root like puppy. User account is welcome and useful option sometimes. I think it is better not to make user closer to root more than it is needed.
As user you can mount and unmount drives (optical, hdd, usb) from desktop-drive-icons. But in read-only mode Only /home/puppy and /tmp are RW accessible without sudo for user account.

Cheers, Toni

[fredx181]

Hi Sergey

Now I replaced the main (base) module /base/001-lf-dw01.pfs
(see previous link: http://yadi.sk/d/3OT2pTCEH5iQc)
to your module /base/001-xxxx.pfs and was able to download this new modification 'LF'

Do I understand well that you got LF running with debian kernel?
I can't try what you offered because I don't have pae.
But I did experiment with "lf-dw-1401" and replaced kernel with non-pae from backports.
So it IS possible with debian kernel.
Also got it working with my porteus-wheezy (using linuxrc from sfs + debian backports kernel)
The only very minor point is that it uses a lot more RAM, almost twice as much.
I like what sfs did with it, lots of puppy stuff.

Regards
Fred

[fredx181]

William; Thanks for correction on chpupsocket, the safer the better of course.

Toni, I'll try your testing version tomorrow, to much porteus stuff to test now.

Fred

[saintless]

Toni, I'll try your testing version tomorrow, to much porteus stuff to test now.

Take your time, Fred.
Almost all you get working in Porteus-Wheezy is working in DebianDog so it is the same like you test DebianDog
Cheers, Toni

[sklimkin]

Hi Fred!

Fred: The only very minor point is that it uses a lot more RAM, almost twice as much.

He excitable and talented at the same time, wanted to prove (for Me) that it is possible in principle - that proved.

Fred: I like what sfs did with it, lots of puppy stuff.

And this design - its main ridge.
But I am confused by this complication.
It becomes difficult to understand what and why it works or does not work.
I understand that it is difficult to resist the complexity of construction, especially if all turns out.
But I as a user at some point cease to understand the logic of this design. Maybe I'm being overly conservative (?)

Nevertheless, some things of his theories may be useful for what You and Toni conceived: to combine the two in a single distribution.

EDIT:

But I did experiment with "lf-dw-1401" and replaced kernel with non-pae from backports.

If you find time for it, it is desirable details.
I believe that the kernel - it vmlinuz, but I guess that is also a /lib/modules ... All of what I do not know much Linux.
Until recently, my interests were in the area plan-C programming (not OOP), though in Windows,
http://www.kolbasoft.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=348
and only the last 2 years, these interests have moved to Linux.

Sergey.

[saintless]

Fred: The only very minor point is that it uses a lot more RAM, Nevertheless, some things of his theories may be useful for what You and Toni conceived: to combine the two in a single distribution.

Hi, Sergey.
Sounds very good to me We already have working Porteus-Wheezy kernel module working with DebianDog but it will be much better if the kernel is official debian one.
Toni

[saintless]

Small stripped down from puppy version of gnumeric 2,3 Mb.
http://smokey01.com/saintless/Fredx181/ ... c.squashfs
Haven't test it proper but seems to work. Use it in /live or load with SFS-Loader.
Gnumeric from apt-get is much much bigger.

[mcewanw]

William,
can you please share your view about giving user reboot and shutdown access without sudo?

the eject cd button in the tray doesn't seem to work

Don't know way but user account need to type sudo for eject -T, mount, umount. Normal user behavior again :)

Run DebianDog as root like puppy. User account is welcome and useful option sometimes. I think it is better not to make user closer to root more than it is needed.
As user you can mount and unmount drives (optical, hdd, usb) from desktop-drive-icons. But in read-only mode :) Only /home/puppy and /tmp are RW accessible without sudo for user account.

Yes, I agree with you Toni. I think a normal user should use sudo for these purposes - nothing is more secure (that's what it is long designed for) and like you say it is better not to make user closer to root than needed. Perhaps you could make the IceWM initiate a sudo shutdown/reboot with password required by the user? On the other hand I'm not sure if its good to encourage a normal user to shutdown/reboot - this is a multiuser system afterall... and we should consider the implications of that - it is perfectly likely that more than one user will be logged into the system remotely.

I haven't had time to test the new download - I'll be out most of today but will test later.

As far as a development/programming environment, I think Puppy does it well to separate the main distribution from the dev stuff (which is only used be programmers and not constantly anyway) - best to remember the mission of keeping the core small with add on modules. Once, for example, a BaCon program is compiled, we don't need encumbered with the whole dev system just to use the resulting binaries. Good to be able to use dev system apt-get compatible with Debian of course.

[sklimkin]

Hi Toni !

Maybe there is such a small Abiword

A little more information about opportunities lf-dw-1401.iso from 'sfs':
I did 2 versions replace the base module:
1. my base sfs-module of Porteus-to-Debian-Wheezy
2. my base sfs-module of Debian-Wheezy standart
Both options work.

I take it your own modules because they have a lot of preinstalled programs and header files - such modules heavier and therefore more problematic for insertion into third-party distribution.

Sergey.

[fredx181]

Fred: The only very minor point is that it uses a lot more RAM, Nevertheless, some things of his theories may be useful for what You and Toni conceived: to combine the two in a single distribution.

Hi, Sergey.
Sounds very good to me We already have working Porteus-Wheezy kernel module working with DebianDog but it will be much better if the kernel is official debian one.
Toni

Hi Toni, Hi Sergey
Oefff... Sometimes I think I am crazy, I have the feeling I've tried thousands of combinations to make it work with stable debian kernel.
But succeeded
Well, at the cost of higher RAM usage(from 40 to 80) at start.
Though it runs smooth on my thinkpad X40 notebook.
First managed to make work with initrd from sfs, now with my own setup in linuxrc(with modded changes-setup and so on)
Here some info:
- replaced /lib/modules/3.9.11-porteus by 3.2.0-4-486 kernel in squashfs-root.
- added to initrd.xz in /lib/modules/ the files from debian stable initrd.img (/lib/modules/3.2.0-4-486)
- added to linuxrc from porteus-wheezy these magic lines taken from author sfs(after ## Let's start! ):
(I think these make the RAM usage higher)

Code: Select all

## Let's start!
for x in `find /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel -name "*.ko" 2>/dev/null | sed 's/.ko//g'`; do modprobe $x 2>/dev/null; done ###sfs
for x in `find /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel -name "*.ko.gz" 2>/dev/null | sed 's/.ko.gz//g'`; do modprobe $x 2>/dev/null; done ###sfs

Sergey, just ask if you want to know more.

Regards

Fred

[sklimkin]

Hi Fred!

First, it's good news, congratulations!
Of course there are questions:
1. Debian debian on i686 - it's from 'sfs' modules?
2. Kernel 3.2.0-4-486 - it's from Your REAL debian kernel?
3. And without these lines work?:
for x in `find /lib/modules/ ... ... ...

And again, I'm leaning toward your choice is not very new, but the proven core system. Let others participate in these races "for the newest."
If the system works with a somewhat outdated kernel and resource consumption for such a choice is less - it is a more sensible choice.
(last string I wrote probably to himself)

Hi Toni !
kernel is official debian: de-jure
kernel is mix from porteus and debian: de-facto

Sergey.

[fredx181]

Hi Fred!

First, it's good news, congratulations!
Of course there are questions:
1. Debian debian on i686 - it's from 'sfs' modules?
2. Kernel 3.2.0-4-486 - it's from Your REAL debian kernel?
3. And without these lines work?:
for x in `find /lib/modules/ ... ... ...

And again, I'm leaning toward your choice is not very new, but the proven core system. Let others participate in these races "for the newest."
If the system works with a somewhat outdated kernel and resource consumption for such a choice is less - it is a more sensible choice.
(last string I wrote probably to himself)

Sergey.

Hi Sergey
1. It is just the same porteus-wheezy (the one I made before) but with modified initrd.xz and stock debian kernel. (the i686 is probably only what conky say about my computer)
In fact the only things I did was studying the modified initrd.xz from sfs, finally added the 2 lines in linuxrc from porteus-wheezy and added files from official debian initrd.img to initrd.xz.(and replaced the porteus kernel in the squashfs-root)
2. Kernel 3.2.0-4-486 the exact same as the official stable debian as Toni uses in Light-wheezy-Debiandog.
3. Without these lines work NOT, I think this is the solution sfs did to make it work.
And also he added "/lib/module/<kernel-version>" inside second initrd in grub4dos line.(initrd /%f%/initrd.xz /%f%/initrd-%k%+.xz in menu.lst)
I just combined the two.

And again, I'm leaning toward your choice is not very new, but the proven core system. Let others participate in these races "for the newest."
If the system works with a somewhat outdated kernel and resource consumption for such a choice is less - it is a more sensible choice.

Not sure if I understand, but if you want kernel 3.12 from backports it works also.
I made it work with no-pae version from backports but should of course be possible with pae also.
If you want I can make iso from your choices.
I made it with the stable kernel version so it could be much more compatible with Toni's setup of several flavors.
Hope it's clear enough.
btw, in this case the older kernel (3.2.0-4-486) has more resource consumption than the newer one (3.9.11-porteus)

Fred

[fredx181]

Hi Toni
Can you test sometime this initrd in your setup with porteus ?
It corresponds with stable kernel, the only strange thing for me is that it mounts hdd as sdb1, sdb2 instead of sda1...
Maybe you know a medicin for that behaviour

initrd-3.2.0-4-486.xz:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCD ... sp=sharing
I wonder how it goes on your low RAM computers.

Fred

[sunburnt]

Sergey is right on simplicity and core reliability.
And also on Abiword, I`ve thought about it too. Better than a reader.

Toni; Please tell me how to reproduce your user problem with ArcDrop.
All the files are "all exec", and pinbd is "all read", it should work.
I could use xdotool utility if pinbd is problem. Can user run tar, zip, etc.?

# Thoughts: In user`s $HOME have: /docs, /shares, /dnld ( or /download)
I don`t like user`s stuff being in Save file and taking space, should be links to /media/( part.)
Have a root-user main DebianDog setup gui to choose the partition and set it up.

# A list of "To Do" items:

1) Remove from desktop: set-default-apps

2) Fix Geany so it`s a normal editor "no options" on first start.
Only status bar, tabs, and line numbering. No other panels or bars.

3) For Firefox include: libdbus-glib-1-2_0.100.2-1_i386.deb ( Zip file attached ).
Could post a no-install version at Smokey`s and make a Menu download.
It`s nice to keep Common Big apps out of the Save file.

4) Include and test: Rox OpenWith ( Zip file attached ). # Make link: SendTo => OpenWith

5) Test new Wallpapers ( Zip file attached ), no gui yet. If good include/move to /opt/apps
If there`s no file: wallpapers.lst , or it`s empty it defaults to /$USER/desktop.jpg then /root/desktop.jpg.
So it could be run by default at boot. Or my gui can turn it on & off.

[saintless]

Hi, Terry.

I will test again user account ArcDrop problem and give more details.
In the last 01-v3.squashfs boot and logout. Type login -> puppy (user) -> puppy (password) -> Now you are in X with user account. ArcDrop is on desktop but it does nothing when I try to drop file. Running from command prompt /opt/apps/arcdrop/arcdrop gives error message about pinbd, but I will check it again to be sure.

All other things I will test today and report back.

Toni

[saintless]

Hi, William.

it is perfectly likely that more than one user will be logged into the system remotely.

Good enough for me to leave the reboot and shutdown work with sudo only. I will try to make it open terminal and ask for password after click on reboot and shutdown.

[saintless]

Hi Toni
Can you test sometime this initrd in your setup with porteus ?
It corresponds with stable kernel, the only strange thing for me is that it mounts hdd as sdb1, sdb2 instead of sda1...
Maybe you know a medicin for that behaviour

initrd-3.2.0-4-486.xz:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0ByBgCD ... sp=sharing
I wonder how it goes on your low RAM computers.

Fred

Hi, Fred, Sergey

Fred it works with 01-v3.squashfs. I had to make only small 02.xzm with chroot link to busybox. Even not needed to make /mnt real folder instead of link to /media The system creates real /mnt folder after boot.
I can't find /mnt/live/mnt populated anymore. It was with the porteus kernel
The RAM and CPU usage are higher. See the pictures.
Anyway it is great option and I will start to test and explore what we can do to optimize it. I think sdb instaed sda is not a problem at all but I will try to find out why is changed.

Thank you Fred!
Thank you, Sergey! Give my best regards and gratitude to the author sfs (Andrej - if I remember the name correct).

Toni

[sunburnt]

Toni; Don`t know why we didn`t think of it to begin with...
I had you move pinbd to /root , so now only root can access it.
I`ll think about a fix and let you know. This permissions thing is new...

[saintless]

Toni; Please tell me how to reproduce your user problem with ArcDrop.
All the files are "all exec", and pinbd is "all read", it should work.
I could use xdotool utility if pinbd is problem. Can user run tar, zip, etc.?

Hi, Terry.
The problem is the script points anly to /root for configuration files and user account can not read /root folder ata all. It has all arcdrop configuration files and pinbd in /home/puppy but arcdrop does not look there. It looks only in /root

When I change all /root with /home/puppy in the script it is working for user puppy, but for different named user it will not work again without changing /root to point /home/user-name

Toni

Edit: I saw your post now, Terry. We posted at the same time.

[mcewanw]

When I change all /root with /home/puppy in the script it is working for user puppy, but for different named user it will not work again without changing /root to point /home/user-name

Sounds like you just need to change all mentions of /root with "$HOME" or maybe more reliable at times: "${HOME}" and if there are any specific config files or folder in /root put a default copy of that in /etc/skel and in the home directory of the already created user puppy.

Toni, as I looked at the murga Forum Index it struck me that, now that things have come this far, you might consider starting the title of this thread with "DebianDog"?

I'm just having a quick look at the new DebianDog download before bed. I've been out in a kayak for six hours today in pretty big waves with the rest of the family (four on the boat) so I'm tired out. I was worried the two year old would fall overboard or that we would capsize but neither event occurred though the two year old did have a minor tantrum in the middle of the open sea and decided to stand up and so on... Normally he just sleeps because of the rocking waves