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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Cutting edge » Multi-session live-CD/DVD
Problem continuing a multisession CD. (Solved)
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11118
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Fri 04 Oct 2013, 15:52    Post_subject:  

What's written on the disk, stays on the disk. Smile However, there is a way to get rid of unwanted saved sessions. First, boot the multisession disk with the boot option puppy pfix=N, where N is the number of saved sessions you want Puppy to ignore when it boots (starting with the last saved session and working back.) For instance, if you enter puppy pfix=2 at the boot option prompt, Puppy will ignore the last 2 saved sessions on the multisession disk when it boots. They'll still be on the disk, but all sad and lonely because Puppy ignored them.

So now you have Puppy in RAM, incorporating all the improvements you made, up to the last 2 saved sessions. Here's where multisession Puppy can do a trick that nobody else can do: using Burniso2cd or Pburn, burn a new CD of the same Puppy iso that you used to make the original multisession CD. You can use a blank CD-R or a used CD-RW that you blank with Pburn. You can even use the same CD-RW you booted Puppy from, but I wouldn't do that. Use a different CD-RW if you have one, and blank it. Save the CD you booted from. If anything goes wrong, you can always start over by booting from it.

You should now have a freshly-burned Puppy CD. With it still in the burner, click the Save icon on Puppy's desktop. This will create the first saved session on what is now your new, improved multisession CD, and it will incorporate all the improvements you made to your original multisession CD, except whatever was in the last 2 saved sessions on that old CD. They are isolated to that CD.

You now have a new multisession CD that is exactly like the old one except that all those saved sessions (less the 2 you told Puppy to ignore when it booted) have been consolidated into the first session on the new disk. I think of it as defragmenting a multisession disk. It is also a handy way to make copies of your multisession Puppy. I think it's better than remastering, though I may be partial because I've never remastered. Smile
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tallboy


Joined: 21 Sep 2010
Posts: 444
Location: Oslo, Norway

PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct 2013, 01:50    Post_subject:  

Flash wrote:
I think it's better than remastering, though I may be partial because I've never remastered.

Yes, but no. If you remove a program from your live CD, and save your work to the CD afterwards, I think the program still remain in the .iso, it is just not loaded. Unless the CD-RW overwrite function let you burn an entirely new .iso when you remove stuff.

When removing a program during remastering, it is not included in the new .iso you create.

I'll get back to this issue later, I have to do some testing, but the burn function in my DVD player has stopped working, and I have to get some sleep.

tallboy

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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 11118
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct 2013, 08:42    Post_subject:  

The reason I think multisession may be better than remastering is that it always works, or at least it always has for me. If I try something in Puppy that pleases me, then save it to my multisession disk, It's there when I reboot. I must admit that I've never tried anything as ambitious as, say, removing SeaMonkey and replacing it with Firefox. Still, if I did do that (in RAM), and found by testing that everything worked as desired, I'm pretty sure that if I saved that session, SeaMonkey would be gone and Firefox would be working fine in its place when I rebooted.
You are right that the original iso is unchanged on a multisession disk, but all the improvements I make and save to the multisession disk are overlaid onto the original iso when the disk boots. So, once the multisession disk boots into RAM it's the same as if I booted a remastered iso. I think. Smile
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1144
Location: England

PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct 2013, 10:49    Post_subject:  

Hi Flash,

Two points.

:(1) Re right click on a/any directory:
The functions "Properties" and "Count" frequently yield very different answers. In my experience "Properties" is usually by far the larger.

(2) I use multi-session and remaster - and whereas my boot time was about 120" with 30 pets installed as "date" folders totalling some 45 MB before remastering - my current remaster boots in about 85", my sole "date" folder is less than 0.1 MB and my Precise 5.6 iso is a little smaller than the original which Ted Dog attributes to greater compression.

I suspect that with your "bluray", remastering may be of no benefit to you.

My regards

I have made a small adaptation to Ted Dog's brilliant contribution.
However. if any of you follow Ted Dog's method to the letter - after booting your current Multi-session-Live-CD/DVD, eject it and insert a fresh CD or fresh/used DVD to avoid any overwrite after the "remastered-sfs" stage.
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Precise 5.6 with Multi-session-Live-CD/DVD + W98SE solely for rare printing needs.
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Disco Makberto

Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 13:10    Post_subject:  

Flash wrote:
If you run multisession Puppy from a rewritable CD or DVD, you don't even have to put in a new disk; Burniso2cd will burn the iso to the multisession disk you've been running Puppy from, then it is burned you just Save to it. The danger is that if the burning or save process doesn't go right, you no longer have your old multisession disk to fall back on. So it's better to transfer to a different disk. I use DVD+RWs and leapfrog them. Once I'm sure the new disk works, the old one goes into the pile to be reused for the next test.


Please excuse me, Flash, but I don't clearly understand the difference between "defragmenting a live disc" via a multisession CDR or multisession DVDR versus "defragmenting a live disc" via a multisession CDRW or multisession DVDRW. Why can we use the same multisession CDRW or mulitsession DVDRW when we "defragment"? Does that means that we cannot do the same when using a multisession CDR or multisession DVDR?

Carlos Albert
D-Mak
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Disco Makberto

Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 13:23    Post_subject:  

Jasper wrote:

(2) I use multi-session and remaster - and whereas my boot time was about 120" with 30 pets installed as "date" folders totalling some 45 MB before remastering - my current remaster boots in about 85", my sole "date" folder is less than 0.1 MB and my Precise 5.6 iso is a little smaller than the original which Ted Dog attributes to greater compression.



Jasper, if you do and complete a multisession disc, and then, once in the latest dektop, you make a remaster, why are you ending up with a "date" folder? I was told in another thread that if we first do multisession and then remaster, there will be no "date" folders but an all-in-one SFS (which covers everything as in the last session).

Carlos Albert
D-Mak
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1144
Location: England

PostPosted: Wed 19 Mar 2014, 16:39    Post_subject:  

Hi Carlos,

If you would like a full explanation of what I do and how and why with a copy of "ram2sfs" and "reburn" it may help to tailor my response if you say:

Which Pup you most want to remaster (32bit unless Ted says otherwise)
How much RAM you have
What total MB your current CD/DVD uses (excuding any extra non-dated archive folders or files - if you have added any)
If you want to use a DVD+RW or DVD-RW or- a CD-R or ..
If you have a hard drive
If you have a spare Flash Stick and, if yes, what type and size.
Perhaps Ted Dog may wish to add something?

Else, please tell if (say, tomorrow) you would prefer a brief answer restricted to your question.

My regards

ram2sfs and reburn (both from Ted Dog) work simply and superbly with my Precise 5.6 multi-session-DVD. I have 640MB RAM (no swap facility) and I also use (but do not need) a 4GB USB2 Flash Stick (6MB/sec write, 22MB/sec read) and use some 170MB of HD space to hold a copy of my current main sfs file to reduce my boot time by 30 seconds).

However, if the method fails in your case - consult Ted Dog here and if he doesn't fix it pretty pronto - demand a full refund with interest at a punitive rate.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4355
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar 2014, 04:08    Post_subject:  

Hi @Jasper

If i follow what is presented, can I assume that
ram2sfs - gathers all system's folders into a single SFS
reburn - burns a bootmanager and the single SFS to a new CD/DVD
Is this an accurate view.

Or, does reburn take the single SFS where it is packaged into an ISO and burned to the DVD?

Thanks in advance

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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2367
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar 2014, 12:58    Post_subject:  

what did jasper talk me into again... Very Happy You are lucky I have internet today and have my equipment with me. One of those Sonic menus jumped out of the concrete and busted my headlight.. Then acted like it never happened Very Happy
So I am at a friends house a few blocks away from repair place awaiting the call that my part has arrived.. Backing up my friends hardware on to Multisession bluerays. Someone else fixed the size limit of 8Gs and I am awaiting code source to try 32bit.
My reburn stuff is DVD and BluRay not old fashioned CD... Saw CD in title. I haven't done a CD version since 2006. Mad
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Disco Makberto

Joined: 07 Aug 2011
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Thu 20 Mar 2014, 15:58    Post_subject:  

Hey, Jasper!

>Hi Carlos,
>If you would like a full explanation of what I do and how and why with >a copy of "ram2sfs" and "reburn"

Thank you kindly!

>it may help to tailor my response if you say:
>Which Pup you most want to remaster (32bit unless Ted says >otherwise)

Puppy Linux Lucid 5.25

>How much RAM you have

512MB, but I am in the process of a memory upgrade.

>What total MB your current CD/DVD uses (excuding any extra >non-dated archive folders or files - if you have added any)

I am not sure about the final one, but I would say around 200MB something or 300MB something. I don't want to do it at once, but rather little by little using multisession until the last final session at which point my plan is to remaster.

>If you want to use a DVD+RW or DVD-RW or- a CD-R or ..

Any of those. I prefer to use the most effective while in the process. Obviously, the final ISO (or the ISO copy of the final disc) can be burned on anything.

>If you have a hard drive

Yes, my internal hard drive, but it is corrupted (or I should say Windows is corrupted), so I try not to use it.

>If you have a spare Flash Stick and, if yes, what type and size.
>Perhaps Ted Dog may wish to add something?

Most of the time I use microSD cards with USB converters, not flash drives (though I have a few flash drives). And most of my microSD cards are 8GB (plus a few 4GB and a few 2GB). Then I have some CF's, SD's, and MS's, but I barely use them. Again, what I use the most are microSD cards.

>Else, please tell if (say, tomorrow) you would prefer a brief answer >restricted to your question.

Well, the more you can explain, the better.

>My regards
>ram2sfs and reburn (both from Ted Dog) work simply and superbly >with my Precise 5.6 multi-session-DVD. I have 640MB RAM (no swap >facility) and I also use (but do not need) a 4GB USB2 Flash Stick >(6MB/sec write, 22MB/sec read) and use some 170MB of HD space >to hold a copy of my current main sfs file to reduce my boot time by >30 seconds).

That's nice to know! But if the final disc includes a "date folder" plus the main SFS, that is not something I am looking after. I would like to have a final disc with just one all-in-one SFS (without date folders) in lieu of the original SFS of the disc.

>However, if the method fails in your case - consult Ted Dog here >and if he doesn't fix it pretty pronto - demand a full refund with >interest at a punitive rate.

(:

Thanks again, indeed!

Carlos Albert
D-Mak
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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1144
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar 2014, 14:54    Post_subject:  

Hi Carlos,

Using “ram2sfs”, either with “reburn” or via an updated iso you must have one (albeit small dated save file) if you want to be able to ever save again to your remastered DVD. The reason is that there is a problem with the boot sequence timing of a flag check.

When “ram2sfs” works it is likely to be faster than any other method of remastering, but more importantly, to me at least, it’s just click and wait for your fully updated main sfs - with not even one single question or option to be exercised.

The only other difference, I know of, is that it does not reproduce your “archive” folder which has special properties and does not load into ram (see the note inside your archive folder). Though, this is easily rectified if you want any archive style folder(s) on your multi-session-DVD (or CD).

So if “ram2sfs” works with your multi-session-DVD Lucid 5.25 with 512 MB ram. you have three choices:
(1) If you choose not to have one smallish dated save folder. You will have to remaster again each time to make any changes to your DVD.
(2) If you copy your current main 100MB+ sfs file from (probably) sr0 to your internal hard drive (any partition) you can test if your hard drive is corrupt. If it’s good I anticipate you may find a reduction in boot time of at least 20 seconds and when booting is complete your hard drive will not be mounted.
(3) If (2) above works - you can remaster without having your new main sfs on your DVD (by substituting your remastered “ram2sfs” sfs on your hard drive), and making a new DVD (or, perhaps recklessly, overwriting the Current DVD).
Although with ramifications if you want to boot your DVD from another computer.

If you try “ram2sfs” and it does not work now, it may well when you have added your extra ram. On my 1998 desktop it takes some 37 minutes to make the new sfs, but one chap I helped reported it took 1‘26“ with his huge [fast] ram.

So, if any of the three options might appeal to you I will make “ram2sfs” available for download and then if that works I’ll do likewise with "reburn”.
My regards

I have considerable experience with Precise 5.6 and multi-session-CD/DVDs, but my expertise is close to zero. I can say that all gcmartin’s guesses were imperfect and though I am happy to try to help with instruction and testing - the magic how and why is for the stars like Ted Dog.
-----------------
Using a multi-session-CD/DVD is in any case somewhat like remastering so actual remastering will not be useful for many.

If your current CD or DVD is becoming full with dated save folders then after booting eject it, then insert a new CD/DVD and reburn your current iso (or sometimes an upgraded iso) then save on exit. You should then have at most 2 dated save folders and a lot more free space on your CD/DVD.
-----------------
There seem to be few Puppy users who favour a multi-session-CD/DVD, but (as far as I know) it's only available with Puppy Linux - and it's brilliant and flexible and stable and with some unique gems given advice or serious research. I do not pretend it's for all, but if say, your hard drive fries you might try it as a temporary alternative especially with a desktop computer.
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 2367
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar 2014, 15:34    Post_subject:  

yes what jasper said...echo echo.. The remaster in RAM method would should or could have a problem finishing with such limited ram... That beening said there are some easy to work around script. If you do not care to get your hands into code. Nothing should destroyed since it just a forward only process If you can find the hardcoded tmp folder line that is in the first few lines of script point that to a mounted harddrive or flashdrive to get around remaster in RAM issue. Second the ram2sfs method does not hurt or help if it ends up In a cd or dvd but the on the fly burn script is for Dvds and BluRay in 64bit world.
As Jasper pointed out I have left behind upgrading 32 bit code for 64-bit but I do plan to return to 32bit AFTER making an upgraded methodology work in 64bit and ARM. 32bit is stable but dated. Learn a lot about how to multisession bluray and have it as good to better than 32bit code. Ie its faster than flashdrives and at times hard to tell if its loading saving from BluRay or regular harddrives based on speed.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4355
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar 2014, 16:24    Post_subject:  

Quote:
... I can say that all gcmartin’s guesses were imperfect ...
So if I'm to ask, again:
gcmartin wrote:
If i follow what is presented, can I assume that
ram2sfs - gathers all system's folders into a single SFS
reburn - burns a bootmanager and the single SFS to a new CD/DVD
Is this an accurate view.

Or, does reburn take the single SFS where it is to be packaged into an ISO and burned to a DVD?
Correct or not? Anything missing?

Thanks in advance

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4355
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar 2014, 16:37    Post_subject:  

BTW, Thanks @Ted Dog and @Jasper for what is being shared.

This may be a good time for a new/newer thread to be authored by either of you with the PETs/Scripts and guidance on this process. I think a thread where RAM2SFS and Reburn is discussed specifically, can be useful in discussion that is centered around an initial post where these tools can be found. If you agree, more members might find it easy to locate, test, and provide feedback on the excellent ideas being presented, here. In addition, more developers can find making it easy to evaluate so that these tools and any current version of such are available in a booted PUPs utilities.

Just an idea for consideration. Idea

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Jasper


Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 1144
Location: England

PostPosted: Fri 21 Mar 2014, 17:13    Post_subject:  

@ gcmartin - I'm trying to help Carlos and those who want to do something personally - not to help attention grabbing authors and critics. I answered your original questions, but you have now edited your second request to add another question.

Only a few days ago you asked for suggestions on a similar topic which I made and you ignored. That's fine, but don't repeat your extraneous questions just because you don't like my answers.

Also, a few days ago I sent you a PM with a file attached. Ten minutes ago you had not even downloaded that file - despite your reply to me which you should inspect.

Ted said he's busy, I'm not interested in writing a major all-embracing manual and I think you said you've had a 40 year career in IT. You write the manual in the new thread you suggest - you write umpteen posts a day so you must have the time.
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