Hi all,
As XP is coming to an end on Apr 8th. Shame about the millions of PCs that will soon be discarded!
I know people are considering moving to Chromebooks. It took me a while to create a system with functioning a Chromium browser and all I had to do was find the right pets! (I couldn't get flash working and used the Open Source alternative), so it will take a while for a complete novice to do the same. Here's the link: http://s438261259.onlinehome.us/puppy_chrome.iso
It seems to me there's a niche for Puppy to create a project to have a chromebook equivalent. An option would be to use crowdfunding to create some funds to support a long term project and get support donations/subscriptions.
Sorry if ideas like this have already been discussed and tried.
~sanjay
Puppy Chrome Book
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jeff-nelson
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 23:59
- Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
- Contact:
Easier than it sounds
I suspect this project would be easier than it sounds, at least to get to a solution which is 90% equivalent to a Chromebook in form and function.
To simplify the task you might want to approach it subtractively. Namely, pick a working, well supported distribution like Slacko or Slacko barebones, preferably that already has a running Chrome or Chromium build. Then, start ripping out everything you don't need, which is just about everything except the browser and window manager. Tweak any settings you feel need tweaked. Finally, remaster an ISO and call it a distribution.
To simplify the task you might want to approach it subtractively. Namely, pick a working, well supported distribution like Slacko or Slacko barebones, preferably that already has a running Chrome or Chromium build. Then, start ripping out everything you don't need, which is just about everything except the browser and window manager. Tweak any settings you feel need tweaked. Finally, remaster an ISO and call it a distribution.
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sanjayjaindc
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 15:09
The technology part is easy
Hi Jeff,
The technology part is easy (well easy because of all the hard work already done).
But as usual the promotion and acceptance is the hard part - to be successful it needs:
- An official distribution
- Some assurance that it will be maintained
In fact there should be some way of updating - like ubuntu.
- A marketing team (I volunteer)
It needs to be a group based effort - if I contact a bunch of organizations in Washington DC, where I live and where there are lots of non-profits, they will ignore me unless they see some organization.
I actually sent an email to the Sierra club yesterday, but they are not likely to check out my "distribution" - I don't expect to hear back from them. But if an email from puppy.org went out to them and they can see Puppy has been around for awhile, they'll get involved as reducing eWaste is a goal they share.
This is a good time to generate media attention as XP is about to die.
We could petition Google through change.org to put a note on their page for XP users to look at the distribution.
~sanjay
The technology part is easy (well easy because of all the hard work already done).
But as usual the promotion and acceptance is the hard part - to be successful it needs:
- An official distribution
- Some assurance that it will be maintained
In fact there should be some way of updating - like ubuntu.
- A marketing team (I volunteer)
It needs to be a group based effort - if I contact a bunch of organizations in Washington DC, where I live and where there are lots of non-profits, they will ignore me unless they see some organization.
I actually sent an email to the Sierra club yesterday, but they are not likely to check out my "distribution" - I don't expect to hear back from them. But if an email from puppy.org went out to them and they can see Puppy has been around for awhile, they'll get involved as reducing eWaste is a goal they share.
This is a good time to generate media attention as XP is about to die.
We could petition Google through change.org to put a note on their page for XP users to look at the distribution.
~sanjay
Hello, all.
On the French side, "petihar" has provided "Triton",
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91730
a Precise 5.7.1 puplet that offers a lot of accesses to Internet apps.
Of course, it's not a brand-named "PuppyBook", but it's close!
Just take a not-too-old laptop and eliminate everything else!
Someone on this side of the forum had done a similar puplet a couple of years back.
And then he condensed it into a single pet. (Can't remember his name, just now.)
BFN.
musher0
On the French side, "petihar" has provided "Triton",
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91730
a Precise 5.7.1 puplet that offers a lot of accesses to Internet apps.
Of course, it's not a brand-named "PuppyBook", but it's close!
Just take a not-too-old laptop and eliminate everything else!
Someone on this side of the forum had done a similar puplet a couple of years back.
And then he condensed it into a single pet. (Can't remember his name, just now.)
BFN.
musher0
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
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sanjayjaindc
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 15:09
Too many distributions!
Part of the problem is that there are too many distributions!
Like Canonical there needs to be some structure, not as big, but some structure to reassure potential users that they should try it out.
If we can get to a stage though crowd funding and getting say 5000 subscribers who are willing to pay $20/year for support, then we have the basis of a long term project.
I am willing to commit some time & $1000 for organisation setup & marketing materials to get this project off the ground.
~sanjay
Like Canonical there needs to be some structure, not as big, but some structure to reassure potential users that they should try it out.
If we can get to a stage though crowd funding and getting say 5000 subscribers who are willing to pay $20/year for support, then we have the basis of a long term project.
I am willing to commit some time & $1000 for organisation setup & marketing materials to get this project off the ground.
~sanjay
I think you may not understand what Puppy is all about.
It is a hobby not a job.
Something to play with and work on, if and when you want to.
It is people all over the world volunteering to do something that they want to do. When they want to do it and how they want to do it.
There is no organization or company control.
Nobody does this for money.
The biggest thing that has driven new versions of Puppy is hardware changes. The newest hardware needs supporting and only newer versions have the needed updated software and Linux kernels.
Woof-CE is about the closest thing to some kind of central control.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90202
Your idea about a different version is OK.
People may come along that want to help.
The main thing is, someone will have to step up to be the lead developer.
Any volunteers
Good example is 01micko with Slacko Puppy.
It is a hobby not a job.
Something to play with and work on, if and when you want to.
It is people all over the world volunteering to do something that they want to do. When they want to do it and how they want to do it.
There is no organization or company control.
Nobody does this for money.
The biggest thing that has driven new versions of Puppy is hardware changes. The newest hardware needs supporting and only newer versions have the needed updated software and Linux kernels.
Woof-CE is about the closest thing to some kind of central control.
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90202
Your idea about a different version is OK.
People may come along that want to help.
The main thing is, someone will have to step up to be the lead developer.
Any volunteers
Good example is 01micko with Slacko Puppy.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
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sanjayjaindc
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 15:09
Control is not the intended/desired outcome
Hi Bigpup,
I do not intend or even want control. Like Ubuntu it will remain Open Source, but a lot faster and for older computers. Ubuntu is getting bloated.
What I'm proposing is a project/distribution that promises to stay around for a few years. And the only way it will stay around is if some folks are invested in it. Those folks don't need to make lots of money, but we all have bills to pay. And it's not unreasonable for a few folks to make a living wage if they spend a lot of time working on something.
So to expand on this - lets say there are 3 core developers who are willing to be available 10-15 hours a week. And if they were paid $20K a year each, development costs are around 60K/year + some other costs
If we did a crowd-funding campaign asking for 5000 people to pay $20 each - that would kickstart this prolect.
FYI - I would not seek large amounts as we need people to start using this, my main goal is to keep millions of PCs out of landfills.
~sanjay
I do not intend or even want control. Like Ubuntu it will remain Open Source, but a lot faster and for older computers. Ubuntu is getting bloated.
What I'm proposing is a project/distribution that promises to stay around for a few years. And the only way it will stay around is if some folks are invested in it. Those folks don't need to make lots of money, but we all have bills to pay. And it's not unreasonable for a few folks to make a living wage if they spend a lot of time working on something.
So to expand on this - lets say there are 3 core developers who are willing to be available 10-15 hours a week. And if they were paid $20K a year each, development costs are around 60K/year + some other costs
If we did a crowd-funding campaign asking for 5000 people to pay $20 each - that would kickstart this prolect.
FYI - I would not seek large amounts as we need people to start using this, my main goal is to keep millions of PCs out of landfills.
~sanjay
@BigPup
If the Puppy distro is a "hobby distro" in the sense that nobody gets paid for it, and that
you contribute if you have the skills and when you can, then you're right. 0micko uses
the expression too.
But I don't think Puppy is a "hobby distro" in the sense of "pass-time". I believe the label
"community distro" would fit better, since Puppy is a distro responding to a genuine
need for simple, compact and efficient computing by a community and for a community
of computer users. BK sensed and filled that need with the Puppy distro because the
need existed.
The need is not going away because BK retired. Also, "hobby" has negative
connotations, perhaps not in Engligh, but at least in my mother tongue. So saying that
Puppy is a "hobby distro" can be a misnomer to some.
I know I've used Puppy as the basis of my HO business for the past 4-5 years.
A "hobby distro" would not have sustained the beating!
Just a thought.
musher0
If the Puppy distro is a "hobby distro" in the sense that nobody gets paid for it, and that
you contribute if you have the skills and when you can, then you're right. 0micko uses
the expression too.
But I don't think Puppy is a "hobby distro" in the sense of "pass-time". I believe the label
"community distro" would fit better, since Puppy is a distro responding to a genuine
need for simple, compact and efficient computing by a community and for a community
of computer users. BK sensed and filled that need with the Puppy distro because the
need existed.
The need is not going away because BK retired. Also, "hobby" has negative
connotations, perhaps not in Engligh, but at least in my mother tongue. So saying that
Puppy is a "hobby distro" can be a misnomer to some.
I know I've used Puppy as the basis of my HO business for the past 4-5 years.
A "hobby distro" would not have sustained the beating!
Just a thought.
musher0
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)
Re: Control is not the intended/desired outcome
Again you just do not understand Puppy.sanjayjaindc wrote:Hi Bigpup,
What I'm proposing is a project/distribution that promises to stay around for a few years. And the only way it will stay around is if some folks are invested in it. Those folks don't need to make lots of money, but we all have bills to pay. And it's not unreasonable for a few folks to make a living wage if they spend a lot of time working on something.
Money and getting payed to work on Puppy, is not what motivates people to contribute.
Look at Lucid Puppy .
It has been around since around 2010 and still going strong. With very good active support.
In fact, the lead developer (Playdayz) had to leave and (rerwin) took over, after seeing it needed someone to step in and keep it going.
No one got payed or is getting paid to work on Lucid Puppy.
Look at Classic Pup 2.14X
That thing has been around for ever, because of one man ttuuxxx. He felt a need and decided to do something about it.
Still very actively supported by many.
No one gets payed, but they do get to see the results of their work and the good it does.
I started a topic "IF You Need help" in the beginners section of the forum.
Stated the info people need to provide, so we can understand what the problem is and what may solve it.
People read it, and suggested some additional things to add.
I did add them.
Flash, a forum moderator, decided that topic needed to be locked to the beginning of the section, so new users of Puppy would always see it.
So, a simple topic, about asking people to answer some simple questions, to get help, turned into a group project.
That is Puppy!!
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
Getting back to the main topic Puppy Chrome Book.
What specific hardware does it need to support?
If it is the normal X86 stuff, Puppy already does that, with multiple versions. Covering very old hardware to very new.
What specific hardware does it need to support?
If it is the normal X86 stuff, Puppy already does that, with multiple versions. Covering very old hardware to very new.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
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sanjayjaindc
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 15:09
Will you commit to 2 years?
Hi Bigpup,
If you feel that it can be done without paying anyone, I am happy to hear that. Can you help me find a core development team, that will commit to at least 2 years of supporting the project?
Hardware - normal x86
You are right, there are multiple versions, but I don't know which one to use, I don't know which might have security issues. I don't know which pets I can trust!
The project is fairly simple, strip Puppy of virtually everything except setup (and hardware drivers of course) and install chromium, with the latest plugings - and offer a way to upgrade it.
If you feel that it can be done without paying anyone, I am happy to hear that. Can you help me find a core development team, that will commit to at least 2 years of supporting the project?
Hardware - normal x86
You are right, there are multiple versions, but I don't know which one to use, I don't know which might have security issues. I don't know which pets I can trust!
The project is fairly simple, strip Puppy of virtually everything except setup (and hardware drivers of course) and install chromium, with the latest plugings - and offer a way to upgrade it.
Re: Will you commit to 2 years?
So a downloadable burnable boot ISO (together with Windows and Linux versions to actually burn the ISO) that has a boot loader such as Grub and a range of possible kernels to fire up according to the hardware being run on.sanjayjaindc wrote:strip Puppy of virtually everything except setup (and hardware drivers of course) and install chromium, with the latest plugings - and offer a way to upgrade it.
Which then loads a light/bare GUI excepting for a network connection tool (portable versions of Frisbee perhaps). And a means to upgrade the graphics drivers (to Nvidia...whatever).
And a range of portable Chrome, Firefox ... browsers
http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.p ... 08298bfa95
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=91945
And a means to remaster another CD/DVD that's tuned to the particular choice of kernel/hardware/network/browser (or a pointer to an appropriate distro ISO to download/use). FatDog if you're running a Win7/8 (64) with USB boot option door closed, Slacko if coming from a XP (32) type machine, Wary if older ..etc.
As a relatively new user I would loved to have had access to something like that, rather than the countless hours and mountain of DVD's I've spent/created over the last few weeks.
Where do we go
Maybe "Blue Pup" is close to what you need. Just strip some out of it (check under derivatives, developper ETP).
Earlier there was "BrowserLinux" that was exactly what you described, but that was based on Firefox.
For a puppy chromebook you would need chrome... or chromium.
Be aware that in Puppy you are ROOT. This may impose security issues (serious or not). That (as I understand) is one of the reasons it is difficult to get chrome running on puppy.
Are you sure about wanting to convert XP machines to chrome books ? There should be no problem getting a minimized chromium image running on an older XP machine, but there are additional requirements for chrome books that are not found on older (XP) laptops or desktops.
Memory requirements (min 2Gbyte, typical 4 Gbyte)
Graphics requirements (min 1280x800, standard 1366x768)
If you end up with a "lame" XP convert, then the efford may be not well spend.
Appart from that (I may be polarized) it is possible that people that still run XP (haven't invested in PC's for 7 or 8 years, since they skipped Vista, 7 and 8 and 8.1) could also have limited internet bandwidth. A chrome book needs bandwidth to behave vivid.
Earlier there was "BrowserLinux" that was exactly what you described, but that was based on Firefox.
For a puppy chromebook you would need chrome... or chromium.
Be aware that in Puppy you are ROOT. This may impose security issues (serious or not). That (as I understand) is one of the reasons it is difficult to get chrome running on puppy.
Are you sure about wanting to convert XP machines to chrome books ? There should be no problem getting a minimized chromium image running on an older XP machine, but there are additional requirements for chrome books that are not found on older (XP) laptops or desktops.
Memory requirements (min 2Gbyte, typical 4 Gbyte)
Graphics requirements (min 1280x800, standard 1366x768)
If you end up with a "lame" XP convert, then the efford may be not well spend.
Appart from that (I may be polarized) it is possible that people that still run XP (haven't invested in PC's for 7 or 8 years, since they skipped Vista, 7 and 8 and 8.1) could also have limited internet bandwidth. A chrome book needs bandwidth to behave vivid.
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sanjayjaindc
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Tue 18 Mar 2014, 15:09
Volhout & rufwoof,
Thanks for the technology suggestions. Technology is not the biggest problem As I said most of the hard work has already done by the puppy community. When i say Puppy Chrome - I mean Puppy with Chromium, not the full Google Chromebook.
I too, after many, many hours of playing around and finally learning what I need to do, was able to put this together fairly quickly:
http://s438261259.onlinehome.us/
But if I was someone new to puupy, there's no way I would install the iso I put together. I am looking to get a core team who will commit to supporting this for at least 2 years. I believe this project needs funding and I'm willing to put time in to raising the funds.
Perhaps I need to contact Canonical and suggest an ubuntu Chromebook.
~sanjay
Thanks for the technology suggestions. Technology is not the biggest problem As I said most of the hard work has already done by the puppy community. When i say Puppy Chrome - I mean Puppy with Chromium, not the full Google Chromebook.
I too, after many, many hours of playing around and finally learning what I need to do, was able to put this together fairly quickly:
http://s438261259.onlinehome.us/
But if I was someone new to puupy, there's no way I would install the iso I put together. I am looking to get a core team who will commit to supporting this for at least 2 years. I believe this project needs funding and I'm willing to put time in to raising the funds.
Perhaps I need to contact Canonical and suggest an ubuntu Chromebook.
~sanjay
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jeff-nelson
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 23:59
- Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
- Contact:
It's not typical to get funding for open source projects, but Kickstarter has funded crazier ideas.
I suspect the main issues you'd run into are (1) simplifying puppy to the point your grandmother could install and run it (2) ACPI tends to be flaky, so suspend/resume may or may not work on any given platform (3) should the installer run as a Live CD or overwrite the BOOT sector?
I suspect the main issues you'd run into are (1) simplifying puppy to the point your grandmother could install and run it (2) ACPI tends to be flaky, so suspend/resume may or may not work on any given platform (3) should the installer run as a Live CD or overwrite the BOOT sector?
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gcmartin
Couple months back, I found a Chromebook OS and tested it on a touch PC. It was simple to use, navigate with my finger and operate.
Don't remember where I got it from, but, if I still have the ISO, I will post.
ChromeBook is an OS. It is not Chromium on top of a distro. And, it offers offline and online user use with strong emphasis on Cloud for storage and service needs.
How many have notice what Google has done for Internet Browser use on Android devices with their latest Chrome for Android "Beta". Better look now to get a better understanding of where this all is going.
Now, if we can just start sending letters to politicians and government officials for a strong Net-Neutrality laws or policies, we, even this community users for local LAN services, will have equal opportunity to be a part of internet our past taxpayer money has built for common citizenry use and contribution.
Otherwise, "they" will decide which of you will be allowed to traffic based upon your wealth. This is NOT about bandwidth, this is about your choice of information models you can use without discrimination.
Go for it!. Standup and force "them", government lawmakers and policy decision-makers to level the playing field!
Don't remember where I got it from, but, if I still have the ISO, I will post.
ChromeBook is an OS. It is not Chromium on top of a distro. And, it offers offline and online user use with strong emphasis on Cloud for storage and service needs.
How many have notice what Google has done for Internet Browser use on Android devices with their latest Chrome for Android "Beta". Better look now to get a better understanding of where this all is going.
Now, if we can just start sending letters to politicians and government officials for a strong Net-Neutrality laws or policies, we, even this community users for local LAN services, will have equal opportunity to be a part of internet our past taxpayer money has built for common citizenry use and contribution.
Otherwise, "they" will decide which of you will be allowed to traffic based upon your wealth. This is NOT about bandwidth, this is about your choice of information models you can use without discrimination.
Go for it!. Standup and force "them", government lawmakers and policy decision-makers to level the playing field!
there are a few difficulties running puppy on a chromebook
1) there are intel or arm varieties, puppy on arm is still in its infancy
2) to fully install a normal linux installation, you need to flash a new bios - goodbye warranty!
3) its possible to dual boot chrome os and ubuntu (or debian) and would probably be possible to get puppy working along with these but thats a lot of messing around
4) most hacks involve entering developer mode at EVERY boot, not difficult but a pain in the ass
5) no optical drive and you have to enter developer mode to boot from usb
its a really nice idea but google have made it intentionally difficult to boot another os
1) there are intel or arm varieties, puppy on arm is still in its infancy
2) to fully install a normal linux installation, you need to flash a new bios - goodbye warranty!
3) its possible to dual boot chrome os and ubuntu (or debian) and would probably be possible to get puppy working along with these but thats a lot of messing around
4) most hacks involve entering developer mode at EVERY boot, not difficult but a pain in the ass
5) no optical drive and you have to enter developer mode to boot from usb
its a really nice idea but google have made it intentionally difficult to boot another os
Download a better Computer :)
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[url=http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=rDTLJYDHX3g]Puppy Linux Song[/url]
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jeff-nelson
- Posts: 20
- Joined: Thu 21 Feb 2013, 23:59
- Location: South Lake Tahoe, CA
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@gcmatrin
Sync is built into Chromium. Offline access to Google apps is a browser extension, so most of what this project needs comes almost for free, except for setup and install.
Sync is built into Chromium. Offline access to Google apps is a browser extension, so most of what this project needs comes almost for free, except for setup and install.
I think the OP meant the reverse: making a Chromebook-like Puppy distribution that runs on old Windows machines.there are a few difficulties running puppy on a chromebook
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gcmartin
Yeah, I've been a Sync user for quite a while.jeff-nelson wrote:@gcmatrin
Sync is built into Chromium. Offline access to Google apps is a browser extension, so most of what this project needs comes almost for free, except for setup and install.
My point is not about the browser as being the central point. The Chromebook is NOT a browser of top of some distro. This system is integrated as being Cloud-centric...not browser-centric.
I have tested, both, an ISO I found, as well as a Chromebook PC. The ISO is for x86 and produces a functional, skimpy Chromebook "OS"...not a browser.
Maybe the correct title of the thread and the comments herein should be clear on the objective on adding Chrome/Chromium as a ALTERNATE browser centric oriented operating system (OS) similar to what is provided by the Chromebook. I think BLUE, another distro very recently produced by @ETP, where he offers a similar vision in a browser oriented PUP distro, OOTB.
This, thread, could produce a similar distro. But, the title could be a little better worded to clarify the direction.
Here to help to clarify what I am sharing.