Nooby struggle to get a firm grip on God.

[jpeps]

The human mind is limited. It can easily understand and juggle with contraries such as
calm and nervous, hot and cold, North and South, left and right, love and hate.

But for more fundamental concepts, it can state them, but it can know only one side

It gets more complex when you look at individual intelligence. There's a sizable number of people who are locked into primary juvenile narcissism, and lack abstract intelligence all together. For them, there's nothing beyond concrete thinking.

[nooby]

(...)
One has to see God from a Distance.

To each his own. To me, it's more like a closeness, a feeling from inside, not a view from outside.


My 2¢. BFN.

musher0

I referred to something else so I do agree with you on

a closeness, a feeling from inside, not a view from outside.

That is why I refer to my relation to God to be an emotional relation
rather than a logical one.

The "distance" when I use it here refer to
the needed logical distance not the emotional closeness.

Cold head and warm heart metaphor.

[musher0]

The human mind is limited. It can easily understand and juggle with contraries such as
calm and nervous, hot and cold, North and South, left and right, love and hate.

But for more fundamental concepts, it can state them, but it can know only one side

It gets more complex when you look at individual intelligence. There's a sizable number of people who are locked into primary juvenile narcissism, and lack abstract intelligence all together. For them, there's nothing beyond concrete thinking.

That is so true, unfortunately.

[Sylvander]

What the h*** is:
narcissism
primary juvenile narcissism
abstract intelligence
concrete thinking?

[jpeps]

What the h*** is:
narcissism
primary juvenile narcissism
abstract intelligence
concrete thinking?

Ask God

(If she isn't available, try a psychologist).

[musher0]

What the h*** is:
narcissism
primary juvenile narcissism
abstract intelligence
concrete thinking?

Ask God

(If she isn't available, try a psychologist).

I disagree with jpeps. For examples of "concrete thinking", Sylvander would get a
more "concrete" definition from the mafia, not God or a psychologist !!! (Bad joke,
I know!)

[nooby]

musher0 Id you don't mind. Could we expand views
on the individual and the collective aspect.

I am not good at reading others and to really get the nuances.

But I do get curious on your views about the emotional inner feelings
stand.

I agree that the collective approach has it's pro et cons.

The to me positive side of a collective practice is that
many people cooperate to uphold a practice.

Sure such is possible within an individual relation too.
You could share your individual view and does not need
to get it 100% compatible with the others active in same group.

As long as all of you have some tolerance towards that separate
each other.

The very bad thing about the collective practice is that it tend to
demand everybody to live up to the norms of the whole group.

An individual practice gives a freedom for each
to give the inner feelings individual expressions
that are in line with the personality of that person.

Why I still need a collective practice has to do with
my lack of sense of self worth. I need to assurance
from others that I am okay as I am.

Only God or a collective can give that assurance?



The good thing

[RSH]

Why I still need a collective practice has to do with
my lack of sense of self worth. I need to assurance
from others that I am okay as I am.

Only God or a collective can give that assurance?

No!

Only you can!

Other only can accept the way you are - or even not accept the way you are.

Do NOT be focused on what others may think about you or may say about you and the way you are!

You is you!

Others are others!

Some may like you, a few may love you - and forget about the rest!

[jpeps]

Some may like you, a few may love you - and forget about the rest!

Brings to mind the last words of a group of serial killers I was just reading about.

[nooby]

Thanks RSH, I fail to follow your good advices.
I've been like that my whole life.

[musher0]

Some may like you, a few may love you - and forget about the rest!

Brings to mind the last words of a group of serial killers I was just reading about.

A love-hate relationship, I gather ? We loved you to death, kind of thing?
In any case, I like dark humour too...

@nooby.

I'll try to expand on the individual vs the collective -- tomorrow. Today, I have some
very mundane problems to solve: car, groceries, new vacuum to find...

BFN.

musher0

[RSH]

Some may like you, a few may love you - and forget about the rest!

Brings to mind the last words of a group of serial killers I was just reading about.

Maybe less reading and MORE thinking will take you to the clue?

Because: there's a lot of bullshit out there to read - approximately 90%... ?

Especially from the psycho front in america, a country which cures so-called "hyperactivity children" (maybe the wrong term, but you should know what I do mean here) by pharmacy. **

What's that got to do with: "We trust in God!" ?

** Btw: Germany already is on its way, to enter this horrible path.

[jpeps]

Now here come the neo-nazis. I can always trust the puppy linux board for brilliant insight by brilliant minds.

Because: there's a lot of bullshit out there to read - approximately 90%... ?

If you exclude your comic book collection, would the stat be less?

[nooby]

** Btw: Germany already is on its way, to enter this horrible path.

Do you refer to that ADD are treated with medication instead of
CBT or other less "biological" cures? I trust that some kids
and adults need both for to be able to concentrate enough
to remember anything for to be helped by the CBT and other
treatments like that?

Sweden has a huge debate about these things too.
Angry debaters on both sides making it hard for us
in the middle to stand all the hatred sent both ways.

I do see merit in both ways of treatment and I trust
that one could make use of both for to get good result.

I've tested only one of them though because the other
are forbidden unless a certified Doc send a prescription

The queue to such "Specialist or Expert advice consultation
could be several months not less than one years statistically.

And some of the docs has an age limit of less than 45 years old
or else they refer to other Docs having even longer queue.

I've given up on standing in queues.
The CBT failed on me due to I failed to concentrate enough
and to do needed home work.

CBT is known for to not help everybody due to this need
for to at least have a minimum of concentration or else
one need a live helping had either being present during
the CBT home work.
The newer tratment a variation of CBT named ACT
also need enough concentration that some ADD persons fail to give i.

ACT is short for Acceptance, Commitment Therapy.
Some say it is Buddhist psychology using Western terms
Steven Hayes that came up with it wants it accepted
among science so he try to avoid the Buddhist terms

While the Buddhists that love ACT put much energy
into elevating ACT to be the best Buddhist treatment
available.to common practicing lay person Buddhist.

These Buddhist praise of Steven as a great teacher
reminds me of how admire and praise easily become
a cult like dependence on the former or informal leader.

So no wonder Steve try to tone down the Buddhist enthusiasm
He looks rather irritated an embarrassed at times when being asked
about it at press conferences.

The Therapy that I trust most are something named Behavioral Activation
therapy. that one can be easily used for

Oops sorry such a long text from me.

[nooby]

RSH I do trust that you gave me very good advice
that the feeling of self worth has to come from within me
and not be dependent on what others think of me
or else I will be totally dependent on others approval
and that I easily will feel lost when one give their
take on me and the other have the opposite message.

But in practice this is how I have lived all my life so
it seems that I have this approach as a second nature.

A habit so strong that I will have no chance on how to
change now after some 55 years of identity of dependency
on what others think of my behavior and thoughts.

Sad story indeed. I am happy that you have been able
to be more self reliant and don't need constant approval
of/from everybody else.

[Bruce B]

The human mind is limited. It can easily understand and juggle with contraries such as
calm and nervous, hot and cold, North and South, left and right, love and hate.

I don't want to disagree with you per se.

I mean, like you, I also think the human mind can easily understand and juggle contraries such as hot and cold, North and South, left and right.

Having said this much, I wish to add and I tell the truth, that I know people who don't know north from south. Whom barely grasp left from right and apparently never committed them to memory, meaning to say, "They have to think about it."

Even if they understand hot and cold, they don't dress properly for the weather. They screw up the thermostat settings. Are clueless about our plumber's code which says the handle on the left is for hot and the one on the right is for cold.

Whatever you do, don't ever try and explain to them that cold does not actually exist.

And it gets worse, they never noticed that in the northern hemisphere the water drains counterclockwise down the sink. Let alone wondered why.

Also, don't know how to read a road map. And they can't give you decent directions. If you ask them to draw you a simple map, they'd not know how to do it.

[RSH]

.. .. .. Having said this much, I wish to add and I tell the truth, that I know people who don't know north from south. Whom barely grasp left from right and apparently never committed them to memory, meaning to say, "They have to think about it."

True!

I do know such people also.

Worst of all: in Germany them are allowed to drive cars !!!

[greengeek]

I trust that some kids and adults need both for to be able to concentrate enough

ADD and ADHD often seem to be conditions where the brain has to process a multitude of input without filtration. It is sad to 'normalize' someone by anaesthetising the mind with chemicals in order to reduce the input to a manageable level. I don't like seeing such drugs given to young kids but maybe it is the only way for some, if they have some sort of damage to their inbulilt filtration system (reticular activating system damage etc)

As an adult someone who suffers from those conditions can often learn to use the unfiltered input to advantage - as a means to expand knowledge and experience beyond the 'norm'.

[nooby]

These people reminds me of my own struggle to grasp
programming. of computers or even to use GUI
or text instructions. I fail to keep the terms in memory
long enough to get what to do next.

That is why I hesitated to take a Swedish driving licences.

I mean if I crash into other people then I am the one responsible
for the tragedy that can be prevented if II decide to not take the risk
of driving a car or motor bike. I owned a "Moped" and that taught me
to respect how bad my brain where to act in time and to be aware of
the small marginals that I had. I got so easily distracted that I where
on the wrong part of the street and did not noice nti very late. Sad story
so I decided o stay out of such adventures.

[nooby]

Okay back to the God thing.

So if I get it. There are individual interpretations.

Each individual are allowed to make their own preferred
way to relate to God. It's nobody else's business.how
they individually relate to God.

Big contrast to some of the "collective" interpretations
where you promise to live up to the teaching of those
in charge of the Group Norms upheld rigid discipline.

I had that rigid view on Atheism way back between 1965
to around 1985. I dismissed agnosticism a an aberration sort of.

Aberration means

the act of departing from the right, normal, or usual course.
2. the act of deviating from the ordinary, usual, or normal type.
3. deviation from truth or moral ...

rigid means
3. Marked by a lack of flexibility; rigorous and exacting

That was me in a nutshell. I acted like that and I where totally blind
to the extreme hatred I had. towards others that did not share
my rigid view.

I still have not come to a good way to deal with that trait
but it is much less severe now than way back in 1985.

That experience have med me very suspicious behavior
like bragging they know others than what that person know
about themselves. Righteousness is one such trait that makes me
suspicious about their claims.

So we have many ways to relate to Groups norms and
to individual "spirituality norms"

I see merits and problems with both approaches.

Being as emotional as I am and lacking the talent for
structure I am lost when it comes to sorting out what to give
priority and what to be careful bout and to avoid falling into traps set up
by the believers individually or by their political leaders.

Being righteous is one such very bad trap.

"How can we be wrong when "we have God on our side. "

God being the truth we know the truth. God tell us the truth so
we are on the winning side in the war against all evil."