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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Puppy Derivatives
Muppylinux-004 (+ 005 for testing)
Moderators: Flash, JohnMurga
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GuestToo
Puppy Master

Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 4078

PostPosted: Wed 08 Nov 2006, 11:28    Post subject:  

there is no way for any distro or kernel to solve the problem ... various bios'es and hardware have various bugs which you may have to deal with ... this may require using kernel boot options like:

apm=on/off/power-off
apci=on/off/force
noapm
noapci
noapic
nolapic
nomce

what could be done, is to bypass or replace the bios ... there are projects that are working on doing just that

and there is nothing that the bios does that could not be done by the kernel, or a pre-kernel ... BSD tends to mostly ignore the bios ... as long as the bios can get it started, it has it's own pre-kernel bios programs (written partly in Forth) that does most of the work of the bios ... for example:
http://freebios.sourceforge.net/
http://www.openbios.info/
http://www.linuxbios.org/
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4817
Location: GB

PostPosted: Wed 08 Nov 2006, 11:42    Post subject:  

BIOS fiddling - now your talking my language. I can do all that stuff in my sleep. Got the utilities, too, so that all parameters can be intercepted! However....
It seems that different BIOS settings will be required for different OS? Why wasn't this a problem with the 2.4 kernel? It doesn't seem to happen with other distros?
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Wed 08 Nov 2006, 12:16    Post subject:  

This weekend I'm away, we celebrate 20 year highschool-day.

So here a list of what I'll try to add in the following weeks:

Roadmap

1.) - Gnome:
- Add Planner. (done 005)
- remove mixer-applett that causes only a error-message. (not done, can't find the entry)
- I'll remove /usr/lib/mozilla, that currently points to firefox. (done 005)
Instead, semonkey will be in the Iso again.
Reason: Some of Puppys programs or dotpups might rely on seamonkey.
This also allows to include Gnomes very fast webbrowser Epiphany.
I might choose seamonkey 1.0.5 if it provides compatible libraries.

This is optional, Firefox will stay the "defaultbrowser" (must slightly modify some scripts maybe).

2.) Add Bluefish 1.0.7 and kompoZer HTML-editors. (bluefish done 005)

3.) add german files for Gnome and other apps. (gnome done 005)

4.) Modify the Gtk-Themechooser to use other folders like the Xfce-themes from Dougal. Add those. Dougal wrote me more suggestions, must have a closer look then.

5.) Add a small wizard to configure some options for Icewm-ultra.
I think of adding subfolders to the autostart-folder for the traybuttons and the dock-wmapplets.
Related:
This would allow to switch Gnome/Xfce-taskbar on the fly in a cleaner way. It makes no sense to keep the taskbar running when using Gnome. Gnome conflicts with icewmtray.

So a Gnome-starter (Desktop-icon) would: (partially done 005)
kill xfce
start Gnome
start all traybuttons

When gnome is closed:
start again the xfce-taskbar
start again icewmtray
start again the traybuttons from autostart/traybuttons

6.) Try to add a option to create a swapfile.
I made a quickcheck on a ntfs-drive, but that puppy.swp was not recognized.
A forum/Wiki-search showed, this is a common problem.
Not shure, if it can be solved.

7.) I was asked via PM to add a Faq.
I replied, I'd prefer to add more points to the Muppy-Toolbox instead.
Not shure yet, what to add there.

8.) The cups-installer could be already extracted in the Iso.

9.) Add a small grafical wizard for my script mkkde to build KDE.
This might take a while.

10.) Use Puppy 2.12 as base. (done 005)
This requires some more slight modifications of my build-script.
When this is done, I will post it.

11.) make it easier to share a folder with Windows XP in a network (need that at work).
I was not able to do that quickly, I'm a newbee to samba or nfs.
I need a wizard to click 2-3 buttons for that.
I think Gliezl once guided me in programming such a tool, must have a look at that again Laughing

12.) add Rox 2.5 with a quick-switch to flip between 1.2 and 2.5. (done 005)

13.) remove redundant/obsolete .desktop-files (=XDG-menu-entries) and add german translations in them.

14.) add nvidia-drivers to 3DCC. Received a Gt2 as donation today. Thanks Bob!

15.) Bob offered to send SCSI-hardware.
We need a donation to cover the postage (I think 10-15 US$).
If there is interest, that I try to add drivers to Muppy, please donate the porto, see http://dotpups.de for a paypal-button (**edit** donation solved, thanks snowdog!).
I can however not guarantee success!

-----------
Not every point might be in the next iso already.
I plan the next to be released in 2-4 weeks.
The roadmap might be finished in 2 month.
Unless Puppy 2.12 is used, an uppdate for Muppy004 might be available to avoid you have to download 200 MB again.

Further suggestions are welcome.
Artie already wrote some via PM, I'll have a look again. Thanks Artie.
I prefer suggestions in the Forum in general, so that I find them again quicker, and so that others can comment them Smile

Mark

Last edited by MU on Sun 26 Nov 2006, 08:13; edited 3 times in total
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SnowDog

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 312
Location: Manitoba Canada

PostPosted: Wed 08 Nov 2006, 13:15    Post subject:  

re: >We need a donation to cover the postage (I think 10-15 US$).

Check your paypal account Mark.

I don't use scsi much myself, but I really appreciate all your efforts in other areas.

Cheers Very Happy

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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Wed 08 Nov 2006, 13:27    Post subject:  

Quote:
Mit dieser E-Mail wird bestštigt, dass Histocs Industries Ihnen $25,00 USD mit PayPal gesendet hat.


Great, many thanks Snowdog Cool

This will allow Bob to send me the hardware.
I will transfer the money to his own account, this also covers his costs for the Nvidia-card. - done -

Mark
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SnowDog

Joined: 05 Jan 2006
Posts: 312
Location: Manitoba Canada

PostPosted: Wed 08 Nov 2006, 14:38    Post subject:  

My pleasure Mark.

If shipping wasn't so insane, I'd send you so many presents you'd still be testing hardware this time next year.
But then, you wouldn't get anything done with muppy, so it's probably a good thing I can't.

I can't say if your paypal button works or not... it does go to what looks like the right kinda page, but I couldn't understand any of it (because I don't read German), so I just sent it from our paypal account instead.

P.S.
I'm working on getting Muppy downloaded, should have it done by tomorrow. I'll send reports in to you for whatever hardware I have a chance to run it on.

Cheers

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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Mon 13 Nov 2006, 15:00    Post subject:  

updated the servicepack.
Setting the font did not work in the Gtk-Themeselector.
Corrected this now.
Mark
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 07:59    Post subject:  

I've uploaded Muppy-005-212.iso to http://puptrix.org/isos/
http://puptrix.org/isos/Muppy-005-212.iso (237 MB)
http://puptrix.org/isos/Muppy-005-212.iso.md5.txt

Servicepack for german utf8-support:
http://dotpups.de/dotpups/Muppylinux/Muppy-005-212-servicepack.pup (55 kb)


Changes:

- based on Puppy 2.12

- includes GuestToos servicepack for 2.12

- taskbar of Gnome should work now, fixed and optimized the startscript.

- uses Rox 2.5 by default, because that supports german √§√∂√ľ.
If you prefer Rox 1.2 from Puppy 2.12, run "setrox1" in a consolewindow.
"setrox2" to use 2.5 again.
It seems there are some problems with the backgroundpicture after the first start, so a servicepack might follow in the next days. Will try to add "xrefresh" to redraw the desktop.
Also Rox 1.2 has better support for file-types, I did not adapt the mime-types yet for 2.5.

- added Gant-project (Java), Planner(Gnome), wxWeekdaynotes (wxBasic)

- added german locale for Gant-project, Planner, Rox 2.5, Gnome, Nautilus, Epiphany, bluefish

- re-added Seamonkey with mail and HTML-Editor. It is in the included addon, so by default still Firefox and sylpheed are used.

- added Gnomes webbrowser "epiphany", that uses the seamonkey libraries.

- added Bluefish 107, but forgot a startscript in /usr/local/bin/ so you'll see no menu-entry.
Will add a servicepack tomorrow.

- modified the startup-files, in 004 the "dialog" did not work on every computer.
It was run from /etc/rc.d/, now it runs from /usr/X11R7/bin/xwin.

- replaced xinit with a script, that starts "dbus" if available (addon). Required for epiphany.

- added undeb, unrpm with rpm4.2-libs

... stuff and fixes ...

important

You might need to start with a new pup_save.3fs, because I had to modify the startscripts.
I might fix that with a new servicepack, that overwrites the files from the servicepack for Muppy004 with the new ones.
Else the new files will be ignored, as the files installed from the dotpup get higher priority from unionfs.

Propriatary Ati-driver is not available yet (but the free ones are included). Must compile that one tomorrow.
Nvidia-drivers are planned for Muppy006, tempestous compiled them already, and I was sent a card that I have not built into my computer yet.

Mark

Last edited by MU on Tue 28 Nov 2006, 10:16; edited 1 time in total
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4817
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 12:47    Post subject:  

Wow! That's a bit of a blockbuster, Mark? How much main memory does it need?
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Lobster
Official Crustacean


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 15117
Location: Paradox Realm

PostPosted: Sun 26 Nov 2006, 21:57    Post subject:  

Embarassed

did not have much luck downloading with firefox
so am trying wget

. . . it may just be working Smile

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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 02:38    Post subject:  

Lobster, it seems puptrix is down.
Please look here in 3 hours:
http://htb65.de/puppylinux/puppy-releases/isos/

I've set up the overload-protection, details:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=77658#77658


Sage:
the bigger size has two reasons:
the included zdrv_212.sfs from Puppy 212, and some new programs.
The modules from zdrv are just extracted, if required.
The new programs are in the addon, so only used if you activate it.

The basic system, that loads to Ram, just has new: rox 25, wxbasic.
So it still should work with 256 MB.

Mark
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4817
Location: GB

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 02:52    Post subject:  

Yes, indeed. Everything works just fine for me. But I thought 128Mb was to remain the target?!! If you look at the Forum in detail, you can see just what HW many folks are trying to use. An install on 64Mb with swap is still a realistic minimum - like it or not!! Perhaps this is going to require even more innovation and ingenuity from the clever coders? Doublesquash?
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 02:59    Post subject:  

no, for a system that fits into 128 MB, you had to use JWM with dillo.
This is not the target for muppy, that basically targets on systems 400 Mhz + 256 MB Ram. 192 MB, ok, as often 64 MB often is used for shared memory of the graficscard.
But for a smaller system I'd suggest to use Puppy or a stripped down Puplet like Murga-Puppy.
Mark
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 4817
Location: GB

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 04:26    Post subject:  

The point I was making was that it may not be wise to limit user acceptance due to HW demands. No-one wants to tread in the footsteps of you-know-who. Notwithstanding, folks using onboard video with shared memory are asking for trouble; better to switch it off in BIOS (or with a sharp scalpel, if that isn't possible!) and fit, even an old PCI Cirrus Logic card, for example.
The danger of upping the resource requirement is that it takes your masterpiece into the hinterland between small, fast live distros and the mainline majors, possibly appealing to a smaller audience?
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MU


Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 13644
Location: Karlsruhe, Germany

PostPosted: Mon 27 Nov 2006, 04:52    Post subject:  

well, Muppy targets on people, who miss some things in Puppy, but don't want a full-blown up main-distro.
Also it targets on german users, where the mentioned specs are available for everybody, as you can buy such computers for less than 100 euro in the local newsletter.
I think this makes the charm of Puppy: you can use it to build a distro targeting a special audience.
Muppy is not intended to be "for everyone", but for the computer-user, that already has XP on his machine, and looks for something more reliable, with a set of programs that cover 80% of his needs.
The rest can be installed from dotpups, as it might be too specific depending on personal preferences. (Games or grafics or ...).
Mark
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