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 Forum index » Advanced Topics » Additional Software (PETs, n' stuff) » Virtualization
Here's a Guide to run Multiple PUPs simultaneously - KVM
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 4273
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Sun 04 May 2014, 17:38    Post subject:  Here's a Guide to run Multiple PUPs simultaneously - KVM
Subject description: No dual-boot; no shutdown-reboot, nothing. Just start a 2nd PUP or 3rd or ...
 

Tired of rebooting whenever you are testing a new PUPPY distro; if so, read on.

When Microsoft bought VirtualPC, Linux kernel developers responded after evaluating, the then current, alternatives. They then settled on added virtualization ability in the Linux kernel, now known as KVM. It has been around since as long as 64bit PCs became available to consumers.

This feature of the Linux kernel allow running additional distros, simultaneously with your booted distro.

Puppy's current "official" 64bit offerings have this feature built-in. And, observing shows that the KVM booted distros perform at native speeds. (In fact, in my testing, FATDOG runs faster. So fast, that the only way I know I'm on the subsequent FATDOG is by its blinding speed. FATDOG normally is fast, but, for some reason, running via KVM "appears" faster.)

Here's is a PUPPY Linux Guide to running several PUPs side-by-side without lag. <=== Click here

This Guide can be used no matter if you are running Live or Frugal or Full. The distro you boot has immediate access to the internet just like anyone has when booting on a real PC.

Knock it around; kick the tires; see for yourself. Impress yourself and your friends as you show them how you can run several distros simultaneously without lag. Or dedicate one distro for Internet, while another for local needs. You are only limited by the number of creative ideas you might think of.

Here to help

IMPORTANT NOTE: The Guide provides a test to insure your CPU has the KVM feature. If your PC shows you have the feature and your secondary distro boots slowly, PLEASE REVIEW THIS POST ABOUT YOUR BIOS!

Edited: typos.

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Last edited by gcmartin on Tue 05 Aug 2014, 15:34; edited 7 times in total
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Sun 04 May 2014, 17:43    Post subject:  

The Guide shows the 2 things required to allow running/testing a PUP while running your main PUP: namely
  1. Add the PET to your main running system to allow this to occur
  2. While your main system is running, boot an additional ISO desktop right before your eyes
Its really that simple.

Update 1: The guide contains tested procedure for sharing content that the "Host" distro has with a distro running in the "Guest".

The Guide, in the post below, covers how to do this.

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Last edited by gcmartin on Fri 16 May 2014, 05:45; edited 4 times in total
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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon 05 May 2014, 22:43    Post subject:  

GCMartin:

I read between the lines and note you mentioned 64 bit. Does this mean a 32 bit will not have this ability? I'm still leaning towards the 32 bit pups. Considering that I have a hundred or so cd's burned, this might be a nice alternative and certainly a more environmentally friendly one.

Kind regards,

Slavvo67
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Mon 05 May 2014, 23:33    Post subject:  

The steps in the Guide was tested using 64bit systems because those, of mine, are the primary distros I now run and test with.

I have not taken the time, yet, to test the Guide's directions using a 32bit PUP. But, I would guess that if they pass the lsmod test, shown in the document's 1st steps, that you could use 32bit QEMU PET/SFS to accomplish the same that the User Guide shows on a 32bit PUPPY distro as the main running system. If you are running FD64/LH64 desktops, you can boot either 32/64 bit distros in the guest as shown. The guest(s) you boot can do any productive tasks just as if they were running alone on the PC.

Just a note, every 64bit PC comes/came with a minimum of 1GB of RAM. This, in most cases, affords the user enough RAM to get good performance in running their main distro while testing a 32bit PUP distro, side-by-side. I think that is what you are asking. Thus the 2 most important items for excellent performance is the CPU feature (only a very,very,very few 64bit PCs, Atoms, did NOT have it) and of course, RAM.

Further, I hope everyone understands that the Guide works, no matter if you are running a Live PUP, a Frugal PUP, or a Full PUP. And, it instructs to allow booting of another 32bit or another 64bit distro while also having the main distro active, too. "I know, I'm redundant in saying this. But those who have run a VM system understand why I repeat this statement."

If any issues are found, please report them. And if there are any improvements noted, please share them.

Hope this helps

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neerajkolte


Joined: 10 Feb 2014
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Location: Pune, India.

PostPosted: Tue 06 May 2014, 13:27    Post subject:  

Hi gcmartin,

The new qemu v2.0 sfs and pet didn't work in Fatdog64-630.

When sfs is loaded all system fonts change to square blocks had hard time unloading the sfs. Problem went away when after unloading.
The pet gave following output in terminal..
Code:
# qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -m 1024 -cdrom /aufs/devsave/LinuxTools/precise-5.7.1.iso                       
qemu-system-x86_64: error while loading shared libraries: libaio.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Older qemu 1.5.3 pet from Fatdog Package Manager works nicely.
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Whitesnow


Joined: 20 Nov 2007
Posts: 103
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Tue 06 May 2014, 21:36    Post subject: QEMU 2.0.0 64 bit  

Hi neerajkolte and everyone. I'm the author of QEMU 2.0.0 SFS, so I reply for my package (that gcmartin had converted in PET).

neerajkolte wrote:
The new qemu v2.0 sfs and pet didn't work in Fatdog64-630.


I compiled QEMU for LHP 64 bit, that is based on Slackware binaries. Your main problem is that Fatdog64 is based on Ubuntu, as far as I know. Therefore, compatibility is not guaranteed.

Take a look at http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=88604

For forum information, as gcmartin current QEMU SFS link is mine:
please, if you want to share, don't link directly my repo resources. They often will be overwritten by newer versions or can be moved for more efficient folder organization or for hosting reasons. Don't leave orphan links all over the web, browse repository instead (that is safe to link).

Bye.

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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Wed 07 May 2014, 00:49    Post subject:  

In the Guide, it references a QEMU version 1.53 PET in the additional software section. That version is from @JamesBond, last year and it works for both FATDOG and LightHouse64.
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neerajkolte


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PostPosted: Wed 07 May 2014, 03:59    Post subject: Re: QEMU 2.0.0 64 bit  

Whitesnow wrote:
I compiled QEMU for LHP 64 bit, that is based on Slackware binaries. Your main problem is that Fatdog64 is based on Ubuntu, as far as I know. Therefore, compatibility is not guaranteed.
I didn't know two 64bit distributions are that different. I thought may be just some problem with dependencies. I am quite new to linux. Just using fatdog for 3 months only. This looks like nice opportunity for me to learn making pets and sfs from source. Smile Thanks.
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stemsee


Joined: 27 Jun 2013
Posts: 362
Location: London

PostPosted: Wed 07 May 2014, 06:18    Post subject: KVM
Subject description: 32bit
 

Hi gcmartin

I just tried this on my Emsee-2nd Edition pup which is 32bit precise derivative. When i ran the command to boot the iso i get this 'VNC server running on127.0.0.1:5900' then there is disk activity as though booting the iso. . Upon connecting vnc viewer, a box flashes open and shut. So it works but I have not been able to keep the vnc viewer open, as yet. Firefox returns RFB 003.008 - i tried an online vnc viewer but it reports a problem with the connection or vnc server settings. So it all works, just can't see it!
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slavvo67

Joined: 12 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Wed 07 May 2014, 08:15    Post subject:  

I have yet to try this but I can see it as a great addition to someone like me that burns many different ISO's over the course of a year. Trying this is definitely on my list of "to do".

Best,

Slavvo67
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Wed 07 May 2014, 18:31    Post subject:  

Thanks @Stemsee.

What he share is EXACTLY WHAT IS NEEDED! ... Feedback!

For those who have looked over the Guide they are seeing 2 "Approach-es" to running a 2nd/subsequent PUP distro. Approach #1, the command line approach and Approach #2, the GUI launch tool approach.

The launch tool option for VNC was not tested: and therefore was not included in the Guide and its discussion.

I propose that we tackle the VNC approach in a separate thread or on the "QEMU Launch" thread as that is where it is made prevalent in that tool's offering. Here's why: Currently, the Guide DOES NOT address using the "real" LAN that the PC is attached to via the main running distro (the Host). Thus, currently, the Guide does show the setup where the additional distro (the Guest) can access the Internet but, their is no ability, demonstrated in the Guide for extending this to the real local LAN.

That extension in the KVM discussion is certainly on my horizon, just not addressed just yet.

So, to do so, we will need to show how the Bridge-Utils can be made to allow the Guest to be accessed via VNC from another PC on your LAN, just as is done for a Real PC attached to your LAN. (I am sure that some of you have noticed that in the "Additional Software" section of the Guide, this utility is shown while there is no discussion about it, ... that is, no discussion about it yet)

I am hopeful that as more and more members become aware of this Linux feature and its current implementation, that we will mature to use the many great thing that Open Source provides in Linux to expand the scope and understanding on the benefit of KVM in the kernel.

In a nutshell, I am looking forward to building instructions to allow those who do use this LInux feature, to boot virtual PCs (teh Guests) so that they look like "Real PCs" on the LAN. (I believe that @JamesBond has actually done this using FATDOG/KVM.) We just need to gather instructions together to do so.

In the meantime, the Guide is helpful to allow members to simply download and "fire-up" any PUP of their choosing. And, because of its current state in the Guide, there is extremely useful built-in security to the overall running distro as well as within the virtual distro as well. Thus, it adds a level for those who would want an isolated environment for banking and other such kinds of concerns.

The Guide attempts to provide an easy and safe step into the fruits of this LInux technology so users have excellent understanding of what they are doing. So, its not just a simple Guide, it expand the knowledge and options for using their PCs, easily for the day-to-day PUP stuff we do.

So, in a nutshell, expect that the Guide, and the Linux tools shown will expand to add additions to take advantage of the features that Linux has given us.

I am hopeful that if FATDOG/LightHouse/Slacko64 advances into the future, they will see fit to incorporate Bridge-Utils in the base system for the advantages that 64bit systems offer in resources to use. The additional cost is too little to not have the benefit available for it extends well beyond just KVM in the local system.

Hope this helps.

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mikeb


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PostPosted: Thu 08 May 2014, 05:30    Post subject:  

I choose the vnc option and connect to it by launching vncviewer.
I used 127.0.0.1:1 for a local connection to test.

So only 3 points... has :1 been used, is there a firewall on, has the vnc command line for qemu changed .. i use -vnc:1

mike
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jamesbond

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PostPosted: Thu 08 May 2014, 11:54    Post subject:  

neerajkolte wrote:

The new qemu v2.0 sfs and pet didn't work in Fatdog64-630.
When sfs is loaded all system fonts change to square blocks had hard time unloading the sfs. Problem went away when after unloading.

That's because the SFS keeps keeps stuff in /usr/etc instead of /etc.

Quote:
The pet gave following output in terminal..
Code:
# qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -m 1024 -cdrom /aufs/devsave/LinuxTools/precise-5.7.1.iso                       
qemu-system-x86_64: error while loading shared libraries: libaio.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
Older qemu 1.5.3 pet from Fatdog Package Manager works nicely.

Yup, missing dependency. As it was built in LHP64 it picked up whatever library there.

Whitesnow wrote:
Fatdog64 is based on Ubuntu
Fatdog64 is based on T2-build, similar to Puppy Wary/Racy (but 64-bit while Racy/Wary is 32-bit), not Slackware or Ubuntu.

Quote:
I compiled QEMU for LHP 64 bit, that is based on Slackware binaries
LHP64 is a derivative of Fatdog64, with a lot of additional programs and libraries (and polish!) on top of Fatdog base. It is *not* based on Slackware. The problem is exactly that - LHP64 has many additional libs that Fatdog doesn't have.


Quote:
I am hopeful that if FATDOG/LightHouse/Slacko64 advances into the future, they will see fit to incorporate Bridge-Utils in the base system for the advantages that 64bit systems offer in resources to use. The additional cost is too little to not have the benefit available for it extends well beyond just KVM in the local system.

bridge-utils is already built-in to Fatdog since 630. For earlier versions, use "busybox brctl" which does the same thing.

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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Thu 08 May 2014, 17:15    Post subject:  

JamesBond wrote:
bridge-utils is already built-in to Fatdog since 630. For earlier versions, use "busybox brctl" which does the same thing.
Thanks @JamesBond. Good guidance and understanding.

I will remove that application link from the Guide, as its not required for the PUP distros that the Guide is built on and could be cause for user confusion (certainly was the case with me).

What this means is that both FATDOG and LightHouse64 are fully featured such that only QEMU is required to be instantly operational to boot additional distro and to do more advanced uses of the booted distro(s), the guest(s), than what the simple, "get started" items", that the Guide already demonstrates.

Most importantly, additional distros (the guests) could provide important functions for users in addition to what the main desktop (the host) is being used for.

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Ted Dog


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PostPosted: Fri 09 May 2014, 00:53    Post subject:  

anyone recall the other method if your uefi machine hardware HAS virtual hardware builtin but removed from settings by Microsoft loader. Found a website to hack UEFI by flipping bits and re flashing but would rather fake out QEMU or have it NOT use the more modern driver system. I use Fatdog64 630.. Thanks.
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