This is a general question about the idea of having both Puppy and WinXP on the same drive.
The PC is a Dell Latitude C600, BIOS ver. A23, Pentium III, 192MB Ram. Samsung HM120JC 120MB hard drive.
The WinXP view of the HD is 120MB.
The BIOS view of the HD is 54,505MB.
The HD currently has a fresh install of WinXP and the WinXP view is:
C: 19.53GB NTFS, 92.25GB Unallocated.
THIS IS THE STARTING POINT.
The goal is to put Slacko Puppy 5.7 full install somewhere in the 92MB unallocated space and allow WinXP to handle the booting of either itself or Puppy.
I read a considerable amount of the forum concerning this issue and I don't think it's addressed very well. For example, none of the remarks I found deal with the issue of beginning with unallocated space for puppy -- they all assume a shrink operation is necessary. There are many other omissions as well.
I have the impression that if one were to boot the live puppy cd and then do an install, the install procedure would not be able to correctly handle the unallocated space -- i.e. it wouldn't ask if the space should be used to create a partition for install.
I'm wondering what the correct procedure is for this scenario?
Question re: Slacko / WinXP dual install
The missing link as you say is to tell the user to use gparted to create a partition in the unallocated space...you selecte it and choose 'new'.....
It is usually prudent to create a swap partition too...more than likely for a pentium 3 machine (I have 2)...I have 512mb plus 512mb ram...though 1GB would not hurt if the space is there.
Bios limits should not be a problem as long as the boot loader is in the first partition.
I use grub4dos and its mbr for multiboot but you may prefer the less intrusive grub4dos and edit boot.ini approach...just means 2 boot menus rather than one.
Otherwise once that partition or partitions are created the wizards should handle the rest.... though its common to separately handle the booting side.
And yes a pretty gappy arrangement compared to most other operating systems but thats the nature of the beastie.
mike
It is usually prudent to create a swap partition too...more than likely for a pentium 3 machine (I have 2)...I have 512mb plus 512mb ram...though 1GB would not hurt if the space is there.
Bios limits should not be a problem as long as the boot loader is in the first partition.
I use grub4dos and its mbr for multiboot but you may prefer the less intrusive grub4dos and edit boot.ini approach...just means 2 boot menus rather than one.
Otherwise once that partition or partitions are created the wizards should handle the rest.... though its common to separately handle the booting side.
And yes a pretty gappy arrangement compared to most other operating systems but thats the nature of the beastie.
mike
-
OscarTalks
- Posts: 2196
- Joined: Mon 06 Feb 2012, 00:58
- Location: London, England
Hello rayl,
Should be quite straight forward. You can't install into unallocated space though. Boot the Puppy live CD (with no save-file loaded) and use gparted to create a Linux ext3 partition. You will also need to create a swap partition of maybe 1.5 to 2.0 Gigs or so because your RAM is very low. Install Puppy (frugal recommended) into the ext3 partition and then install grub legacy or grub4dos which will boot either Puppy or WinXP (you can make either the default). Must admit I've never tried to do it with anything earlier than a P4 though.
mikeb got in before me but thought I would post anyway.
Should be quite straight forward. You can't install into unallocated space though. Boot the Puppy live CD (with no save-file loaded) and use gparted to create a Linux ext3 partition. You will also need to create a swap partition of maybe 1.5 to 2.0 Gigs or so because your RAM is very low. Install Puppy (frugal recommended) into the ext3 partition and then install grub legacy or grub4dos which will boot either Puppy or WinXP (you can make either the default). Must admit I've never tried to do it with anything earlier than a P4 though.
mikeb got in before me but thought I would post anyway.
Oscar in England
Re: PupWin Install
I would stick to the Puppies from the 4.x series.rayl wrote:192MB Ram
Thanks to you all for the helpful comments. I noticed one person thought 192 MB ram might be an issue for puppy 5! I'm in the process of upgrading to 512 MB (waiting on the SODIMMs).
What I really found interesting is how everyone thought I would use some variant of the GRUB boot loader.
My intent is to use the WinXP loader via the boot.ini file!
Any thoughts on that approach?
What I really found interesting is how everyone thought I would use some variant of the GRUB boot loader.
My intent is to use the WinXP loader via the boot.ini file!
Any thoughts on that approach?
@rayl
I have previously owned a Dell C600 and I suggest that, if possible, you increase RAM. Windows 2000 and Puppy 5.2.5 ran really well with 384 MB of RAM and a Swap Partition of 768 MB.
There is no reason why the Lin 'N' Win approach won't work but I think you'll find that with only 192 MB of RAM, Win XP will be awfully slow. I had Classic Grub installed to the MBR of the Hard Drive and it worked flawlessly.
Good luck with it.
I have previously owned a Dell C600 and I suggest that, if possible, you increase RAM. Windows 2000 and Puppy 5.2.5 ran really well with 384 MB of RAM and a Swap Partition of 768 MB.
There is no reason why the Lin 'N' Win approach won't work but I think you'll find that with only 192 MB of RAM, Win XP will be awfully slow. I had Classic Grub installed to the MBR of the Hard Drive and it worked flawlessly.
Good luck with it.
If it's not Backed-Up, then it isn't really yours.
You just think it is.
You just think it is.
Shutdown/Reboot FAIL
Running Slacko Puppy 5.7.0.
Both shutdown & reboot fail with what looks like a kernel call trace dump to the screen and then the machine seems to hang.
I wasn't sure how to capture the output so it could be provided, if needed for debug.
I thought maybe dmesg might be the tool but the timing doesn't seem right.
Anyone know how to capture the output?
Or, any ideas on what might be the problem?
Both shutdown & reboot fail with what looks like a kernel call trace dump to the screen and then the machine seems to hang.
I wasn't sure how to capture the output so it could be provided, if needed for debug.
I thought maybe dmesg might be the tool but the timing doesn't seem right.
Anyone know how to capture the output?
Or, any ideas on what might be the problem?
Make sure you are using the Slacko 5.7 no-PAE version.
Slacko 5.7 may still not work on your hardware, but the no-PAE version has the best chance of working.
P3 processor is at the bottom limit of what Slacko is built to run on and that is very limited support.
Very much a may or may not work.
Slacko is built to support the newest hardware and what is possible for older hardware.
A moving target.
With Linux newer kernels, in general, dropping support for really old hardware. Like a P3.
These versions of a Puppy 5 series would be good to try.
Lucid Puppy 5.2.8.005
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70855
Lucid 5286
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90461
With a P3 system you may have to try several versions of Puppy to find one that works well with your hardware.
Any Puppy 4 versions should work.
Puppy is designed for 256MB of ram as minimum.
A swap partition is very much needed to help the memory you have.
I know you say you want to use the Windows boot.ini to boot Puppy, but the Grub4dos bootloader works very good in providing a boot menu that works for Linux, as well as booting Windows.
It also provides some useful boot options, that are Linux only options, you would not have with only using boot.ini .
Slacko 5.7 may still not work on your hardware, but the no-PAE version has the best chance of working.
P3 processor is at the bottom limit of what Slacko is built to run on and that is very limited support.
Very much a may or may not work.
Slacko is built to support the newest hardware and what is possible for older hardware.
A moving target.
With Linux newer kernels, in general, dropping support for really old hardware. Like a P3.
These versions of a Puppy 5 series would be good to try.
Lucid Puppy 5.2.8.005
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=70855
Lucid 5286
http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=90461
With a P3 system you may have to try several versions of Puppy to find one that works well with your hardware.
Any Puppy 4 versions should work.
Puppy is designed for 256MB of ram as minimum.
A swap partition is very much needed to help the memory you have.
I know you say you want to use the Windows boot.ini to boot Puppy, but the Grub4dos bootloader works very good in providing a boot menu that works for Linux, as well as booting Windows.
It also provides some useful boot options, that are Linux only options, you would not have with only using boot.ini .
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected
YaPI(any iso installer)
Here's how I've done it.
(1) Pick a Pup. For you I'd recommend trying AnitaOS (direct download link). If it boots, it will work. If it doesn't boot, it's not for you
(2) Run gparted (if you haven't already) and make some space.
(3) Install your Pup in the space you made.
(4) Run grub4dos. I always check the boxes for []search only this device and []single page menu. I always edit menu.lst at the end, to remove the "safe mode" option for Puppy (it's fairly redundant IMO, and I can't think of one single example of where I'd use it), the Partition Boot Sector section, and the grub2 stuff under #Additionals. '[]search only this device' has a habit of not working very well, so if additional drives show up I pull that, too.
(5) Reboot, and if everything works, you're done. I've never had grub4dos fail me...
(1) Pick a Pup. For you I'd recommend trying AnitaOS (direct download link). If it boots, it will work. If it doesn't boot, it's not for you
(2) Run gparted (if you haven't already) and make some space.
(3) Install your Pup in the space you made.
(4) Run grub4dos. I always check the boxes for []search only this device and []single page menu. I always edit menu.lst at the end, to remove the "safe mode" option for Puppy (it's fairly redundant IMO, and I can't think of one single example of where I'd use it), the Partition Boot Sector section, and the grub2 stuff under #Additionals. '[]search only this device' has a habit of not working very well, so if additional drives show up I pull that, too.
(5) Reboot, and if everything works, you're done. I've never had grub4dos fail me...
Thanks everyone for the helpful replies.
Slacko 5.7.0 worked OK, except for the fact I had to use the power button to turn off the machine either for a re-boot or because I was done.
I'm currently running Puppy 5.5 Wary and all seems Ok, including the reboot and shutdown requests! There is one problem I noticed though and I'll probably just ignore it!
The wireless connection won't come up automatically after a shutdown but it will after a reboot -- I tried exiting X to a prompt but couldn't find a 'shutdown' command, so I used the power button and when it booted after the shutdown, the wireless connection came up without me having to do it manually!
I have a Linksys WPC11 and it seems funny under linux, but works OK under Win2k.
Since my purpose in life (at this stage in my life) is to just screw around, I'll probably try a few other options with different OSs and different network adapters (also have Linksys WUSB11v2.6 & WUSB300n and a Belden USB adapter).
Thanks to all for your help!
@Latitude-didn't seem to have any problems with any of the drivers!
@bigpup-the machine has PAE, so I didn't see any reason to try no-PAE -- but it might be worth a try. The problem seems to be with the PCMCIA network card--when it's installed, reboot/shutdown fail; when it's NOT installed, they work! With respect to your suggestions to try older pups--I tried Wary 5.5 and it seems to work OK! I may try the ones you suggest as well. AMEN to your remark about trying several versions of puppy! Puppy ver. 4 was suggested by others -- I may wind up going that way! I'm waiting on a pair of 256MB SODIMMS, so memory shouldn't be an issue in the future! My swap is about twice the 192MB RAM I currently use.
Concerning boot loaders -- I use grldr and menu.lst in the root of C: and I have ntldr via boot.ini, load grldr with a 0 timeout and default OS of 1 (Linux). It works very well and allows me to return to an all Win2k machine by simply deleting the linux partition(of course, I would edit the boot.ini file.
@starhawk-thanks for the suggestion to use AnitaOS. I'll try it on another Dell Latitude I have.
Slacko 5.7.0 worked OK, except for the fact I had to use the power button to turn off the machine either for a re-boot or because I was done.
I'm currently running Puppy 5.5 Wary and all seems Ok, including the reboot and shutdown requests! There is one problem I noticed though and I'll probably just ignore it!
The wireless connection won't come up automatically after a shutdown but it will after a reboot -- I tried exiting X to a prompt but couldn't find a 'shutdown' command, so I used the power button and when it booted after the shutdown, the wireless connection came up without me having to do it manually!
I have a Linksys WPC11 and it seems funny under linux, but works OK under Win2k.
Since my purpose in life (at this stage in my life) is to just screw around, I'll probably try a few other options with different OSs and different network adapters (also have Linksys WUSB11v2.6 & WUSB300n and a Belden USB adapter).
Thanks to all for your help!
@Latitude-didn't seem to have any problems with any of the drivers!
@bigpup-the machine has PAE, so I didn't see any reason to try no-PAE -- but it might be worth a try. The problem seems to be with the PCMCIA network card--when it's installed, reboot/shutdown fail; when it's NOT installed, they work! With respect to your suggestions to try older pups--I tried Wary 5.5 and it seems to work OK! I may try the ones you suggest as well. AMEN to your remark about trying several versions of puppy! Puppy ver. 4 was suggested by others -- I may wind up going that way! I'm waiting on a pair of 256MB SODIMMS, so memory shouldn't be an issue in the future! My swap is about twice the 192MB RAM I currently use.
Concerning boot loaders -- I use grldr and menu.lst in the root of C: and I have ntldr via boot.ini, load grldr with a 0 timeout and default OS of 1 (Linux). It works very well and allows me to return to an all Win2k machine by simply deleting the linux partition(of course, I would edit the boot.ini file.
@starhawk-thanks for the suggestion to use AnitaOS. I'll try it on another Dell Latitude I have.
@rayl
the fact that you have to do hard shut-downs means that the Puppy 5.7.0 kernel drivers do not agree with the Pentium 3 hardware. As I said in a previous post, increase the RAM then try Puppy 5.2.5., which worked for me on a Dell C600.
the fact that you have to do hard shut-downs means that the Puppy 5.7.0 kernel drivers do not agree with the Pentium 3 hardware. As I said in a previous post, increase the RAM then try Puppy 5.2.5., which worked for me on a Dell C600.
If it's not Backed-Up, then it isn't really yours.
You just think it is.
You just think it is.
@Latitude;
OK, I'll try the 5.2.5 version. I hope to receive my pair of 256MB SODIMMs within a few days. With 512MB, I should be ok with regard to memory.
This version I'm running right now (Wary 5.5) seems ok except for the strange behavior of the Linksys PCMCIA network card. I thought I found the answer to the problem, but I was wrong.
Just to be clear on what the problem is, let me restate it. (Using Puppy 5.5(Wary)):
Lets begin with the machine booted and the network connection in place.
If I simply request a power off shutdown from the menu, it WILL shutdown with a power off, BUT, if I then power up, there is a good chance when its done with the boot process and everything appears to be running, the network is NOT connected and I then have to do it myself!
This behavior of the network is NOT consistent, sometimes it works!
Sometimes it doesn't!.
In order to solve the problem, I tried the idea of first disconnecting the network card from the network BEFORE requesting a shutdown -- that too is inconsistent! I don't want to give up on this problem because its too much fun! Although there is something to be said for stuff that works the same way all the time!
So, I'll try your suggestion and install puppy 5.2.5.
By the way; why can't I find the traditional 'shutdown' command?
OK, I'll try the 5.2.5 version. I hope to receive my pair of 256MB SODIMMs within a few days. With 512MB, I should be ok with regard to memory.
This version I'm running right now (Wary 5.5) seems ok except for the strange behavior of the Linksys PCMCIA network card. I thought I found the answer to the problem, but I was wrong.
Just to be clear on what the problem is, let me restate it. (Using Puppy 5.5(Wary)):
Lets begin with the machine booted and the network connection in place.
If I simply request a power off shutdown from the menu, it WILL shutdown with a power off, BUT, if I then power up, there is a good chance when its done with the boot process and everything appears to be running, the network is NOT connected and I then have to do it myself!
This behavior of the network is NOT consistent, sometimes it works!
Sometimes it doesn't!.
In order to solve the problem, I tried the idea of first disconnecting the network card from the network BEFORE requesting a shutdown -- that too is inconsistent! I don't want to give up on this problem because its too much fun! Although there is something to be said for stuff that works the same way all the time!
So, I'll try your suggestion and install puppy 5.2.5.
By the way; why can't I find the traditional 'shutdown' command?
When I had Puppy 5.2.5 running on the Dell C600 I didn't need acpi=force, everything "just worked". I found it easy to get an Internet connection using a USB wi-fi dongle and these settings (along with everything else) were stable and persistent from one Boot to the next. I had 384 MB of RAM and a 768 MB Swap Partiton and had no trouble surfing the Internet, watching movies using VLC or editing movies using Avidemux. I was dual-booting Puppy 5.2.5 with Windows 2000 and there were no issues there either.
If rayl is running 512 MB of RAM, I guess a Swap File or Swap Partition of 600 - 700 MB would be a good idea.
If rayl is running 512 MB of RAM, I guess a Swap File or Swap Partition of 600 - 700 MB would be a good idea.
If it's not Backed-Up, then it isn't really yours.
You just think it is.
You just think it is.
FINALLY WORKING !
TO All who followed my struggles and helped me and for those who may come along later and perhaps benefit from this:
To re-cap; I have a Dell Latitude C600 with a 850 Mhz Pentium III and a 40 Gig hard drive and I just upgraded the memory today (Fri. Sep. 5th, 2014) to 512 MB ram. The network interface is a PCMCIA Linksys WPC11 ver. 3.
I have been trying to get this thing running comfortably with some variant of Puppy for some few days now.
I have settled on Puppy 5.5 (Wary) since it now seems to function well.
I used to have a problem with the machine giving me a dump of some kind (on the screen) when I chose either shutdown with power-off or shutdown with re-boot. It now does NOT do that!
I don't really remember for sure which variant of puppy I had the problem with because I've tried too many!
However, it works now and I'm going to keep it that way in spite of the one problem it still seems to have!
I'm not positive this is actually a problem, but my experience with other flavors of Linux and other OSs tells me it really is a problem.
Here is the problem: When I bring up the OS from either a power-down state or a re-boot -- the network interface does NOT come active.
The icon in the tray has a big red X on it which tells me I have no network connection and I then have to click on it to load a network wizard and proceed to 'configure' the network.
It makes no sense what I have to do but I've tried it many times with various modifications to the sequence of steps I take and I finally found a sequence that works -- even though it makes no sense!
Here is the sequence:
- boot Puppy
- click icon in tray to load network wizard
- click 'wlan0'
(By the way, I struggled mightily to find out that the driver I needed for the Linksys WPC11 ver. 3 PCcard is "hostap_cs"!)
- click 'Wireless'
- CEFR5 profile shows up (created earlier), click 'Load"
- CEFR5 is loaded with all the right params like WEP key, etc.
- click 'Use This Profile'
- a status dialog shows saying "Configuring interface wlan0 to network CEFR5"
- a dialog from the wizard comes up saying "Wireless Configuration of wlan0 failed..."
- I THEN IGNORE THIS and click 'Test wlan0'
- a dialog from the wizard comes up saying "Puppy was able to find a live network"
- click 'Auto DHCP'
- a dialog from the wizard comes up saying "Network Configuration is successful"
- click 'OK'
- back to network wizard's first dialog and click 'Done'
The thing then works -- go figure!
Looks to me as though some of the scripts behind the dialogs are not very well designed!
OK, that's it! I'm now going to pursue some other matters but I'm interested in understanding why I can't have the network interface come up automatically at boot.
I have a feeling to do it right, I'd have to make use of the actual commands behind the dialogs and put them in a script to run at boot time!
To do that I'd either have to search the forum for that answer or otherwise research it.
Thanks for your help.
Ray
To re-cap; I have a Dell Latitude C600 with a 850 Mhz Pentium III and a 40 Gig hard drive and I just upgraded the memory today (Fri. Sep. 5th, 2014) to 512 MB ram. The network interface is a PCMCIA Linksys WPC11 ver. 3.
I have been trying to get this thing running comfortably with some variant of Puppy for some few days now.
I have settled on Puppy 5.5 (Wary) since it now seems to function well.
I used to have a problem with the machine giving me a dump of some kind (on the screen) when I chose either shutdown with power-off or shutdown with re-boot. It now does NOT do that!
I don't really remember for sure which variant of puppy I had the problem with because I've tried too many!
However, it works now and I'm going to keep it that way in spite of the one problem it still seems to have!
I'm not positive this is actually a problem, but my experience with other flavors of Linux and other OSs tells me it really is a problem.
Here is the problem: When I bring up the OS from either a power-down state or a re-boot -- the network interface does NOT come active.
The icon in the tray has a big red X on it which tells me I have no network connection and I then have to click on it to load a network wizard and proceed to 'configure' the network.
It makes no sense what I have to do but I've tried it many times with various modifications to the sequence of steps I take and I finally found a sequence that works -- even though it makes no sense!
Here is the sequence:
- boot Puppy
- click icon in tray to load network wizard
- click 'wlan0'
(By the way, I struggled mightily to find out that the driver I needed for the Linksys WPC11 ver. 3 PCcard is "hostap_cs"!)
- click 'Wireless'
- CEFR5 profile shows up (created earlier), click 'Load"
- CEFR5 is loaded with all the right params like WEP key, etc.
- click 'Use This Profile'
- a status dialog shows saying "Configuring interface wlan0 to network CEFR5"
- a dialog from the wizard comes up saying "Wireless Configuration of wlan0 failed..."
- I THEN IGNORE THIS and click 'Test wlan0'
- a dialog from the wizard comes up saying "Puppy was able to find a live network"
- click 'Auto DHCP'
- a dialog from the wizard comes up saying "Network Configuration is successful"
- click 'OK'
- back to network wizard's first dialog and click 'Done'
The thing then works -- go figure!
Looks to me as though some of the scripts behind the dialogs are not very well designed!
OK, that's it! I'm now going to pursue some other matters but I'm interested in understanding why I can't have the network interface come up automatically at boot.
I have a feeling to do it right, I'd have to make use of the actual commands behind the dialogs and put them in a script to run at boot time!
To do that I'd either have to search the forum for that answer or otherwise research it.
Thanks for your help.
Ray