LinuxCNC (EMC2) on Puppy

Mathematical tools, physics simulators, CAD, CNC, etc.
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saintless
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#81 Post by saintless »

Revolverve wrote:Anybody happen to know how come there is a realtime option in startup services or do I miss something there..
Seems the service realtime is auto-created from linuxcnc package.
Boot with empty save file/folder and remove linuxcnc:

Code: Select all

apt-get purge linuxcnc
Then type rcconf and it is not there anymore.
Then install it again:

Code: Select all

apt-get update
apt-get install linuxcnc
Then check rcconf again (kill rcconf if there is error message):

Code: Select all

killall rcconf
rcconf
Again realtime is disabled at the end of the list.
I don't know if it has to be manually enabled or not.

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vtpup
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#82 Post by vtpup »

anikin wrote:vtpup,

did you try acpi=off and apm=off boot options?
machines of that era did not support acpi at all and didn't work well with apm too. If there are any power config options in BIOS, those should be disabled too.
anikin -- I've already tried those boot options -- that really doesn't apply to the rtai-hal.ko and apic problem. . I've also used those cheatcodes with the stock Ubuntu 8.04 Linuxcnc.

And many versions of Puppy Linux as well -- this computer has been used by me for 8 years with many puppies. It runs Precise puppy now and everything I throw at it in the puppy 5 range.)

The reason for shutting off ACPI and apm, if necessary with this (and other) computer(s) is to reduce latency.

btw, latency is very good with the TP 600e laptop -- about 16000 max as tested many times here.

But thank you for the suggestions!
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#83 Post by vtpup »

Revolverve wrote:Look already a complex project...choosing old laptop to run it make it harder.

&more problem could come http://www.linuxcnc.org/index.php/engli ... k?start=20

Anybody happen to know how come there is a realtime option in startup services or do I miss something there..
Revolverve, this computer already runs LinuxCNC on Ubuntu perfectly and has cut parts on my mill without problem. Obviously the parallel port works fine! I don't know why the user in the link had problems with his parport..

The whole point of this thread was to get a simpler faster operating system like Puppy BEHIND LinuxCNC for older computers. rather than the problematic Ubuntu and 1.1 G Debian that the developers chose to ship it in as a liveCD. Modern puppies run on older computers EASILY,

Ubuntu does not. It was always a painful experience trying to get things to work in Ubuntu when I used it for a few months before discovering Puppy linux (version 3.10 at the time!)

If the user in your link had problems with the parallel port on his Thinkpad 600X I would be willing to bet that it is related to Ubuntu, or a mistake he made himself, not the computer. itself.

And people throwing their hands up in the air and saying "Gee, guess it's just too old hardware is an Ubuntu/Microsoft/Apple concept, foreign to the original aims of Puppy Linux. Puppy has always stood for principles of inclusiveness, efficiency, and the ability to use rather than dispose of so called "obsolete" hardware. And it does that extremely well. And the reason I'm so happy to use it and recommend it.

However, I do realize others have plenty of work to do besides focus on my interest in this thread, so if this project is getting too complex or time consuming, I'd certainly understand anyone who wants to re-focusing on what is important to them. Not a problem at all!
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#84 Post by vtpup »

Saintless, thank you once again for all your help and interest in trying to get a fast efficient OS behind LinuxCNC!

I don't blame you for disliking working with Ubuntu -- it is totally over complicated and bloated compared to Puppy -- we get used to the way Puppy does things -- forgetting what a brilliant achievement it was by Barry Kauler in comparison with existing OS's at the time. He really streamlined things and "cut the fat". He also made things simple enough and stable enough to work for years rather than obsoleting OS's and hardware on a yearly basis. And made backward compatible improvements a standard for testing and advancement of the OS,

I will try your new version, and also want to re-iterate that I'm grateful (and amazed) at all the time and effort you keep putting into this). Please feel free to reduce that at any time you need to or get tired of this stuff!

I do think what you may have achieved will help many people, not just myself, and will be a much better way of spreading LinuxCNC especially for older machines, than the current LiveCD's.

Thank you once again! Downloading now........
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#85 Post by vtpup »

Toni,

Your Ubuntu version runs LinuxCNC on the TP 600E as a LiveCD in JWM!

And it is indeed fast to have the desktop open (considering it is a LiveCD) fast to open programs.

And you've got Rox aboard, which I appreciate! That is also fast to navigate the filesystem.

In other words, all of the other Ubuntu slowdowns seem to have been eliminated, and performance is the kind of thing Puppy (and DebianDog) users have come to expect.

I haven't yet tried it on the mill, because I believe it should be installed for that. But I want to report back preliminary results here!

I did try also the program latency-test by typing that in the terminal. And I'm presently getting lower latency numbers that I even did before. Though we actually need resource hogs to truly test that.

glxgears runs at 120 fps.

Looking good so far!
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#86 Post by vtpup »

In testing, just two minor JWM error msgs:

Warning color depth is 16 disabling icon alpha channel
Warning background image not found : /root/bg.xpm


And also hoping for a (wireless) network program.

Frisbee (or puppies stock version(s) would be a VAST improvement over Ubuntu's original 8.04 junk.

In Ubuntu 8.04 I rarely could connect on start up, (or by clicking on the network symbol twice to disconnect and reconnect). it took sometimes literally 10 minutes -- and I believe that was one of the resource eating programs running behind the scenes in the former Ubuntu. It would slow everything else to a crawl until it finally gave up ten minutes later.

I think that really slowed the system down, and you couldn't even turn the thing off. I tried several older PCMCIA wireless cards (of that era --ath type) -- none were recognized or activated without loading madwifi and windows drivers. Even then it only connected occasionally. It was a mess compared to puppy or debiandog on the same computer and same cards which loaded and connected on start-up without a hitch. They were also straightforward to configure or set up. Ubuntu tried to make everything hidden and automatic -- so you wouldn't see what was going on, or have the ability to configure or fix it.
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#87 Post by saintless »

Hi, Vtpup.
I'm one of the owners of very old computers and I use for every day work P-III 600Mhz + 256Mb Ram and SWAP with DebianDog-Squeeze version. If I can help you get your old laptop running the mill it will be great :)
The problem with ubuntu is it is based on debian but it is actually much different. Debian is very easy to shape, modify and cut to the size of DebianDog. But Ubintu was a real pain to make this testing iso in similar way.
vtpup wrote:I haven't yet tried it on the mill, because I believe it should be installed for that. But I want to report back preliminary results here!
I think it is important to test this because if it does not work we are wasting time working on this testing iso.

What do you need to install the mill and test it for real work? Can you make second ext partition about 2Gb on your hard drive for full install for this testing iso? And can you make around 1Gb swap partition or file? All needed is to extract the files from filesystem.squashfs there and add menu entry in grub for full install. I will post instruction how to do it when you are ready. Just post the hard disk drive configuration - partitions with sizes, fs type and what is installed on them.

Wifi - the system has fully working apt-get and you can install easy wicd or other network manager. In jwm it will work fast. But I will test frisbee if it works.
I already have some kind of solution for startx problem and checking what else can be removed.
I'm not sure I can patch the initrd.gz file successful for using save file for frugal install but I will try.
Jwm errors are not important. One of them is for missing background image. Easy to fix.
If the mill works with this iso I will make it smaller as much as I can and try to configure the desktop more, but most of the settings like file assocaitions will be left for the user (in this case you) to make.

Few important questons for files I can remove to make it smaller:
Do you need linux-headers included?
Do you need man and doc files included?
Do you need different localization files than english included?
What other programs you like to have included in the iso? We are making the iso for you mostly so now it is the time to tell what is important to have included. Like web-browser for example.

Edit: OK, startx problem fixed and I think I can make frisbee work. There will be remaster script included to allow you easy make new filesystem.squashfs for live CD from all changes added in full install. It will be easy to install/uninstall programs in full install and rebuild different versions of this live CD.

Toni

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#88 Post by vtpup »

Toni, thanks again!

No problem to install or check out mill -- I just mean I hadn't done that yet by last post. Will do today, of course!

re. "Wifi - the system has fully working apt-get and you can install easy wicd or other network manager." Except apt-get only works if already connected, yes?

re.
Do you need linux-headers included?
No -- I can download if needed

Do you need man and doc files included?
No again, availbable online

Do you need different localization files than english included?
No, though others might -- this might become popular -- unless these are easily downloaded and installed, too.
But no, I don't need them personally.

"What other programs you like to have included in the iso? We are making the iso for you mostly so now it is the time to tell what is important to have included. Like web-browser for example. "

Wow, thank you!

I just use Seamonkey as with other puppies

Galculator is the calculator I use.

I use pfind a lot -- unless you already have something similar on board.

rox I prefer over xfe.

JWM desktop (like puppy has) with program icons would be nice, unless too large -- I can live without desktop icons though -- just the menu is fine.

I can use apt-get, but synaptic makes it easier to look for and see what you've got (if the program isn't too big.) Again, not absolutely necessary.

gftp, -- sometimes used -- again not absolutely necessary. Most file transfer is by thumb drive from my main laptop/CAD computer.

A text editor like geany or similar would be nice.

I think of the TP 600E as a machine controller computer not a general purpose machine, so not too many extras are actually needed, and they can always be downloaded later if I really feel I need to have something -- as long as wireless works.

Besides I can always dual boot this computer into a Puppy (or DebianDog) frugals through grub entries if I need to do more -- and that would keep the Ubuntu side uncluttered and reliable.

Cool!!!
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#89 Post by saintless »

OK, Vtpup.
I think all could be done in the next few days.
To test full install you need to copy the content of filesystem.squashfs to empty ext partition. I use DebianDog but it should work from any Puppy.
You need to have around 1Gb swap file or partition for the unsquashfs command to work without problem on low ram machine. You can make temporary 1Gb swap file from DebianDog -> Utility -> Make Swap File

If you have empty ext partition (sda1 mounted on /mnt/sda1 for example) unsquash the module with this command:

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unsquashfs -f -d /mnt/sda1 /path-to/casper/filesystem.squashfs
And add this in grub menu to boot full install:

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title Ubuntu full
 uuid f35e5975-24bc-4dc0-b306-183d6760fb60
 kernel /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-16-rtai root=UUID=f35e5975-24bc-4dc0-b306-183d6760fb60 ro
 initrd /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-16-rtai 
I use uuid instead rootnoverify (hd0,0)
You can find the uuid of the partition with blkid command.

Toni

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#90 Post by vtpup »

Okay toni, will do later, but thought I might try running mill from frugal install you mentioned earlier.

I have that install running now, but how do I mount drives from jwm?

I tried "mount /dev/sda5" in terminal for instance but "no listing in mtab or fstab"

It's getting close to evening here and I might not have time left to test on mill -- maybe, we'll see..
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#91 Post by vtpup »

More testing:

Don't need Geany -- Gedit is already aboard and similar.

Don't need Galculator -- Gcalctool already aboard.and similar.

Would like a graphic way to mount - or auto mount, and if possible, disk icons on the desktop if not too difficult to add.
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#92 Post by vtpup »

Added sda5 in fstab, the partition UUID, and folder mount point /mnt/sda5, Added auto to the record. I already had a swap partition record btw --- sda7

Now I can mount sda5. But adding fstab entries manually is a drag, and how would I add a USB thumb drive? Would I have to do it every time a different thumb drive is plugged in? Needs UUID specified, too for that?

The JWM implementation in Ubuntu seems to lack some basic functions we take for granted. I suppose that is all built into Nautilus? So as soon as we drop that we lose easy mounting?

Toni please don't feel you have to spend time on this to correct it. I could probably do the fstab entries manually, and just use a single thumb drive always.
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#93 Post by saintless »

vtpup wrote:Added sda5 in fstab, the partition UUID, and folder mount point /mnt/sda5, Added auto to the record. I already had a swap partition record btw --- sda7

Now I can mount sda5. But adding fstab entries manually is a drag, and how would I add a USB thumb drive? Would I have to do it every time a different thumb drive is plugged in? Needs UUID specified, too for that?
:) Don't edit fstab anymore.
Just for information how to mount drive from command line:

Code: Select all

mkdir /media/sda5
mount /dev/sda5 /media/sda5
/media is the default mount point in debian/ubuntu. Better use /media with this cd and dont forget it is ubuntu - not puppy.
To unmount sda5 use:

Code: Select all

umount /media/sda5
fdisk -l gives list of all available devices.
This was just for information. You will have desktop icons mount and unmount all hdd, cd, usb in /media with single click.
linux-headers - I can't find ubuntu package for linux-headers for this kernel. If there is not deb package it is better not to remove linux-headers. It will be difficult to add them manually.
Most gnome dependencies are still included. If I try to uninstall them the system asks uninstalling linuxcnc and rtai-modules.
I think tomorrow you will have the second iso for testing and script to remaster easy new squashfs module from full install.
If it is OK I will give permanent downlod link and you or someone else can open new thread for it in case someone likes to continue improve and configure the system further with updated versions.

Toni

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#94 Post by vtpup »

sounds great Toni!

I think I will continue to play with this one to try to prove it works with the mill in the meantime.

Thanks for the easy way to mount! :oops:

I needed to mount another drive so I could transfer across the LinuxCNC mill configuration file I had worked out for my mill and driver boards -- otherwise that is a pain to construct new again.

So now that I can add the working configuration, I will test.

I also made one frugal install, and one full install for testing. I still have the original working Ubuntu install as well for comparison. all on different partitions. The full install has its own partition with nothing else in there.

ps. for the TP 600e I am using cheatcodes acpi=off noacpi nosmp pnpbios=off (these work in the original Ubuntu working LinuxCNC)

If I have problems I will delete those cheatcodes and try again.

I do not use lapic in the original working Ubuntu.

If I find everything works, I might just try a cheatcode to force APIC off just to see if we get the same error messages we did in DebianDog -- just out of curiosity.
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#95 Post by saintless »

vtpup wrote:So now that I can add the working configuration, I will test.
Hope it works, Vtpup, because it is almost ready.
Just a teaser ;)
Image

Toni

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#96 Post by anikin »

vtpup,

What gets me thinking is why CNC in DebianDog runs on Toni's old laptop and doesn't run on yours. From my reading, CNC depends on HAL. DD doesn't have it, as HAL has been deprecated a long time ago and replaced by udev. But it's still available:

Code: Select all

apt-get update
apt-get install hal
/usr/sbin/hald --daemon=yes
BTW, installing HAL will have a side effect, or added bonus - it will enable flashplayer to play DRM video.

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#97 Post by greengeek »

vtpup wrote:...And also hoping for a (wireless) network program.
Frisbee (or puppies stock version(s) would be a VAST improvement over Ubuntu's original 8.04 junk.
I would recommend trialling rcrsn51's "PWF" (PeasyWiFi) from here
It gives you really good control of the wifi setup, and is easily removed if you don't like it. Frisbee can be overly 'automatic' sometimes - and hard to remove if it doesn't prove to be reliable.

PWF gives you full manual control (as if you were working via cli) but adds a gui for convenience.

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#98 Post by vtpup »

We have movement!!! :D


But not without a big problem before I solved it -- took most of the day.

The parallel port stopped working -- took a while to realize that was the problem -- I tried all kinds of things to get the new Ubuntu/Linuxcnc working --nothing,

But when I then tried TurboCNC and JediCut -- both of which also failed -- I realized the problem was the port, not the program. Both had worked before on this computer.

Possibly this is the same parallel port problem reported earlier for the TP 600X and I'm thinking it occurs after trying to run a late LinuxCNC liveCD.

I think the later liveCD corrupts the parallel port because there is a Ubuntu boot up message with early versions saying that one module won't be loaded because it sensed it was an IBM machine and it would corrupt the serial port. Probably this check was omitted from later versions of the loader and I wouldn't be surprised if loaded, it also affected the parport .

Anyway, solved it by reinitializing the Thinkpad bios -- which cured the parallel port problem.

(If anyone else has this problem from a late LinuxCNC distro, hold down the F1 key on boot and navigate through the Bios screens to "Initialize" -- click on that an the Bios will be restored.)

Then tried Toni's new Ubuntu mod LinuxCNC and it worked!

Dinner now -- more later..
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#99 Post by vtpup »

Here's what scrolls by during a normal boot of 8.04 Ubuntu with a Thinkpad 600 using an older kernel:

Code: Select all

 621.773568] piix4_smbus 0000:00:07.3: Found 0000:00:07.3 device
[  621.773587] piix4_smbus 0000:00:07.3: IBM system detected; this module may corrupt your serial eeprom! Refusing to load module!
[  621.773665] piix4_smbus: probe of 0000:00:07.3 failed with error -1
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#100 Post by vtpup »

saintless wrote:
vtpup wrote:So now that I can add the working configuration, I will test.
Hope it works, Vtpup, because it is almost ready.
Just a teaser ;)
Toni

Looks good Toni!

Gee if I'd known that pic was going to be in the distro -- I'd have cleaned my shop! :oops: But it looks great -- Thank you!!

One very small suggestion for a distro for others -- change program icon names to reflect a function, like Browse for Seamonkey, Edit for Geany, Paint for MtPaint, Calculate for Galculator, Mount, and Unmount, etc. Doesn't work for everything of course, but helps where possible.

Good for new people who don't recognize the names of programs to know what they are clicking on and where to find things. :D


re testing:

I just had time tonight to verify that I can jog the axis on the mill in LinuxCNC full install, didn't run a cutting program, or test the frugal install, or running mill from LiveCD.

Tomorrow will check it out fully. :D
Last edited by vtpup on Sat 20 Sep 2014, 00:18, edited 1 time in total.
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