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Can I switch Save files without rebooting?
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2698
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Tue 13 Jan 2015, 06:24    Post subject:  Can I switch Save files without rebooting?  

Can I do this without re-booting (perhaps just restarting x)?
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Flash
Official Dog Handler


Joined: 04 May 2005
Posts: 13110
Location: Arizona USA

PostPosted: Tue 13 Jan 2015, 09:22    Post subject:  

My guess would be no, unless Puppy went back to the point where the Save file is loaded and the layered file system combines everything, which is pretty close to the start of the boot process.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2854
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Wed 14 Jan 2015, 05:09    Post subject: Not as SaveFiles -- but  

Hi nic007

"Can I switch SaveFiles without re-booting (perhaps just restarting x)?

ditto Flash, but

Edit on Jan 15, '15: Bracketed Text was speculation, skip to results of test:

[You can probably repackage your SaveFiles as ordinary SFSes, then load and unload them on the fly.

IIRC, at one point using Saluki, I couldn't figure out how to combine SFSes using only applications built for it. But Saluki, like Carolina, has a great builtin application for creating Adrvs. So I built an Adrv containing every application I wanted. Rebooted into a different Pup, or pfix=ram, created a new folder, named it, then mounted the Adrv --be sure to "show hidden files" -- copied everything from the mounted Adrv into the new folder, opened a terminal and ran dir2SFS, packaging the new folder as an ordinary SFS.

Something similar should work with SaveFiles. Take a look at SFS's UExtract, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=717357#717357 and Packit, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=729490#729490. I didn't use them during the above procedure. But they're great tools decompressing and creating any kind of compressed file.]

The above speculation didn't work. Just tested under Lupu. Lupu is the last Pup I have where I'm not using SaveFolders & running under Pupmode 13. Certainly wouldn't work with SaveFolders. SaveFile Unpacks & packs, loads and creates menu entries, But nothing runs. I guess Saluki's Adrv is just a specialized SFS, somehow different from a SaveFile.

Best workaround --perhaps best practice-- is ala Tazoc, R-S-H and others to combine pets/sfses into SFS suites -- such as a Video Editing Suite-- including all the tools you want when engaging in that activity. Then load-unload as needed.

Do you know of a good & current SFS-combiner? The last SFS-Combiner I know of was either 01micko's or Mu's ".pup" --note the dot. Early days before pet packages replaced pup packages. UExtract + manual insertion/combination + Packit, or entirely manual combination works. But there should be a simple tool.

mikesLr
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2854
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 15 Jan 2015, 16:41    Post subject: SFS & Pet Combine(r) = Sfs_builder  

Hi All,

In answer to the question about good & recent applications for combining SFSes, I recalled that jemimah had built one for Saluki. I do miss jemimah Crying or Very sad and hope she is doing well. She named it sfs_builder.
You can find both versions 1 & 2 on the Smokie-Saluki repo. http://www.smokey01.com/saluki/pet_packages-saluki/ *. Thanks, smokey for your dedication.

Initially I had forgotten about that repo and tried downloading sfs_builder from Carolina's repo. However, it wouldn't install in Tahrpup. Same problem with second download. Examination suggested either an empty file or something similar. I'll notify rg66/Geoffrey.

Searching my harddrive for pets I've downloaded disclosed the sfs_builder-1.pet, This installed and ran fine in TahrPup 6. Knowing that both Avidemux-2.5.6** and Blender-2,6.3** ran without conflict under TahrPup, I used sfs_builder-1 to combine them into one SFS which loaded and ran. [This may seem an odd combo. But Blender --I've been advised-- works with Openshot Video Editor to create animated titles. Openshot, itself, was not included as Tahr's version was installed via Quickpet].

Sfs_builder is a neat tool as it enables you to combine into one SFS all the SFSes and pets you've placed in one (otherwise empty) folder. Some of the dependency checking routines Jemimah built into it may not work outside of Saluki/Carolina. And I don't know what improvements she made to version 1 when she published version 2. But the fact that it functions under Tahr suggests that it is essentially a BASH creation which may function under any Pup.

mikesLr

* Regretably, neither version would load, apparently suffering from same problem as that in the Saluki repo. I'd gladly upload my stored version. But it exceeds the forum's size restriction.
Searching disclosed jpeg's merge-utility and Sfs-merge, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=492619#492619, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=493147#493147. There's also gyro's patchSfsWithSfs.sh, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=809897#809897. I have not tried any. And none offer the convenience of merely dropping all desired pets and SFSes into an empty folder and starting the merge dialog via a menu listing.
** These are on my harddrive as SFSes. I may have converted them to that format from pets.

STILL LOOKING FOR AN GOOD, RECENT and NOOB-Friendly APPLICATION AVAILABLE FOR OTHERS WHO MIGHT WANT IT.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2854
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Thu 15 Jan 2015, 20:00    Post subject: Jemimah's sfs_builder-2  

I guess I was wrong about its size exceeding forum restrictions. Here's Jemimah's sfs_builder-2.

It does, apparently, work under Tahr and so should be "distro independent".

I've changed the desktop file/menu entry to "Utility" from something like "package management" which showed up in the Setup Submenu.
The desktop file id's the icon to be displayed as "mini-Utility-package.xpm". As that does produce an icon on my menu, I've left alone.

Have fun,

mikesLr
sfs_builder-2.pet
Description  Jemimah's sfs_builder-2.pet, changed desktop category to "Utility" from "package management?"
pet

 Download 
Filename  sfs_builder-2.pet 
Filesize  4 KB 
Downloaded  170 Time(s) 
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2698
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Thu 15 Jan 2015, 20:52    Post subject:  

Hi, Pets2sfs can also combine SFS files (and of course convert pets to sfs).
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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Thu 15 Jan 2015, 21:13    Post subject:  

nic007 wrote:
Hi, Pets2sfs can also combine SFS files (and of course convert pets to sfs).

Yes, and PaDS, which is a improved and extended version of pets2sfs/pets2sfsgui, can build SFS Modules from .pet, .deb and .txz (Slacko) Files - by GUI and right-click option (just put all Files into a Directory and right-click it)!

Also it can handle the i386-linux-gnu directory from multi arch distros like Ubuntu (Precise). Those apps, alien2puppy and pets2sfs/pets2sfsgui actually can't do this - as far as I have tested and examined.

In my next version of PaDS, I plan to add some more Files like .sfs and .tar.gz to be included in the building process.

_________________
RSH

"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2854
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 16 Jan 2015, 11:15    Post subject: Combine pets &/or SFSes to an SFS  

Hi All,

Interesting. Searching again produced different results. Surprised Wonder what search term I used last time. Confused
Stumbled upon 01micko's script to combine pets, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=473344#473344 and trio's pets2sfsgui, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=500168#500168

I'm not certain jemimah's sfs_builder can use pets as sources. The first test I ran seemed to include the "pet" in its final build as it appeared on the menu after the built SFS was loaded. But the second test didn't. Perhaps I forgot to uninstall the pet during the first test; or did something wrong during the second. Embarassed Or something else? * I'll have to test some more; perhaps starting with a clean SaveFolder.
Edit: Tested sfs_builder with a clean SaveFolder. It can process pets. See my warning regarding manually building SFSes in my next post.


@ nic007: I was unaware that jpegs's pets2sfs could use SFSes as "sources". That ability wasn't mentioned in jpeg's post. Are you sure it can? Any particular steps necessary to do so?

@ Lazy Puppy: Using 01micko's script or jemimah's SFS_builder you place all the pets you want to combine in a directory. The application then combines all the pets in that directory. I think I understand the BASH command's 01micko used, centering on:

DIR="$1"
mkdir $DIR
LIST=`ls|grep pet$`
#extract pets
for i in $LIST;do
...

You have a much better grasp of BASH than I.

On the other hand, the GUI used by PaDS seems to require that the "source" pets (and SFSes?) be identified one at a time. Other than in LazyPuppy (and Lassie?) can PaDS build from an entire directory of "sources" without having to select each source individually? In both Precise and Slacko, I've used PaDS Gui so that the "target" directory --holding the sources-- appeared in the right pane. Neither right nor left clicking the target directory "selected" it. One, or the other, simply opened the directory (now in the left-pane) showing the "sources" in the right pane. The other either did the same, or nothing. How does PaDS select an entire directory of sources?

mikesLr

* See my next post.

Last edited by mikeslr on Fri 16 Jan 2015, 21:21; edited 2 times in total
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nic007


Joined: 13 Nov 2011
Posts: 2698
Location: Cradle of Humankind

PostPosted: Fri 16 Jan 2015, 13:09    Post subject: Re: Combine pets &/or SFSes to an SFS  

mikeslr wrote:
Hi All,

Interesting. Searching again produced different results. Surprised Wonder what search term I used last time. Confused
Stumbled upon 01micko's script to combine pets, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=473344#473344 and trio's pets2sfsgui, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=500168#500168

I'm not certain jemimah's sfs_builder can use pets as sources. The first test I ran seemed to include the "pet" in its final build as it appeared on the menu after the built SFS was loaded. But the second test didn't. Perhaps I forgot to uninstall the pet during the first test; or did something wrong during the second. Embarassed Or something else? I'll have to test some more; perhaps starting with a clean SaveFolder.


@ nic007: I was unaware that jpegs's pets2sfs could use SFSes as "sources". That ability wasn't mentioned in jpeg's post. Are you sure it can? Any particular steps necessary to do so?

@ Lazy Puppy: Using 01micko's script or jemimah's SFS_builder you place all the pets you want to combine in a directory. The application then combines all the pets in that directory. I think I understand the BASH command's 01micko used, centering on:

DIR="$1"
mkdir $DIR
LIST=`ls|grep pet$`
#extract pets
for i in $LIST;do
...

You have a much better grasp of BASH than I.

On the other hand, the GUI used by PaDS seems to require that the "source" pets (and SFSes?) be identified one at a time. Other than in LazyPuppy (and Lassie?) can PaDS build from an entire directory of "sources" without having to select each source individually? In both Precise and Slacko, I've used PaDS Gui so that the "target" directory --holding the sources-- appeared in the right pane. Neither right nor left clicking the target directory "selected" it. One, or the other, simply opened the directory (now in the left-pane) showing the "sources" in the right pane. The other either did the same, or nothing. How does PaDS select an entire directory of sources?

mikesLr

It's actually pets2sfsgui. Yes you can combine SFS files, I've used it on numerous occasions. Another utility that can be used to edit/create/combine SFS files, is Edit-SFS.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2854
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Fri 16 Jan 2015, 21:17    Post subject: When manually converting pets to SFSes No pinstall/punstall  

Hi All & nic007,

Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can support himself. Give him enough rope, and he may hang himself.

For those who haven't yet realized it, what knowledge I have of Linux and Puppy Linux results from (a) good advice and instructions I've received from members of this forum who know a lot more than I do; (b) curiosity about everything which often leads me to try to figure things out via trial and error after analyzing Bash scripts developed by others without seeking advice. Sometimes I discover something useful. And sometimes I make a mess. Probably why, when I was a young boy, my Hanukkah present of a chemistry set mysteriously disappeared. Sad Well, my parents should have known better after I had dissembled the family radio requiring payment to a technician to put it back together. Embarassed

I don't often convert pets to sfses, edit sfses, edit initrds and such. So it seem a good idea, rather than when such occasions arise having to search the forum for applications and install the one I then needed, to put together an SFS including all such tools which I could load and unload as needed.

I began by searching thru my stored pets and downloading some others. One application was just a script next to which, on my storage, was a text file providing instructions for its use. Figuring I'd want to create a menu entry for both it and for a "help file" of those instructions, I decided to create the SFS manually so that I could include those additions.

On the surface, the manual technique is simple: Either (a) Extract the Pet or (b) if your Pup doesn't include an Extraction application, change the ".pet" ending to ".tgz", initiate the archiving application and decompress it. Then copy the results of decompression to an empty folder you've created and named, edit to your heart's content; then open a terminal at the parent of such folder and type "dir2sfs name-of-folder". If your SFS is to be a combination of more than one pet, before running "dir2sfs" dissemble your other pets and copy their contents to the corresponding locations in your folder.

Caveat: Sometimes pets have pininstall and puninstall files at their root. AFAK, pininstall files are run by PPM? at the initial install of a pet setting up links, configs and conditions needed by the pet. In which case, puninstall files are run to remove those links, configs and conditions when pets having them are uninstalled via PPM. Someone who actually know, can correct this. But it may be why not every conversion from a pet to an SFS results in an application which runs.

At any rate, a couple of the pets I wanted to include had pininstall/puninstall files; and "log" files existing under the "var" directory. Examining 01micko's script I mentioned in a previous post suggest that pininstall/puninstall files are removed from the dissembled pet files before the SFS is built. But I didn't know that. So I manually copied them over and left them in.

As far as I can tell, the first time I loaded the SFS, pininstall did its thing. This resulted in the application being written permanently to my SaveFolder. They didn't appear in PPM so it could not be used to uninstall them. Unloading the SFS didn't remove the applications. They still appeared on the Menu, and could be started from there.

That's my best guess as to what happened. I'd be interested to know if others, having more knowledge, have a better idea.

I hope it is not some flaw in SaveFolders.

@ nic007: thanks for the info regarding pets2sfsgui.

mikesLr
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neerajkolte


Joined: 10 Feb 2014
Posts: 517
Location: Pune, India.

PostPosted: Sat 17 Jan 2015, 12:16    Post subject:  

Hi mikesLr,
Regarding pininstall and puninstall, do the sfs loading script use and run those files while sfs is being loaded?
When I asked about how to run an script while sfs is being loaded I got answer as follows..

For normal Pups : Make a script and place it in /root/startup folder in the sfs.

For Fatdog : make script /tmp/sfs/autorun.sh in the sfs (make script is using 'case.....esac' with events as load, unload, systemload, systemunload.)

I don't know if sfs loading scripts use pininstall and puninstall files.
I just removed them thinking why keep them if they are intended for PPM.
So I have not experienced any problem as you say...yet.
Thanks.

- Neeraj.

_________________
"One of my most productive days was throwing away 1000 lines of code."
- Ken Thompson

“We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run.”
- Amara’s Law.
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2854
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jan 2015, 00:22    Post subject: pininstall & puninstall  

Hi neerajkolte,

My post above pretty much exhausted my current knowledge of pininstall & puninstall.

"A man must know his limitations." Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry.

Long ago, regarding a couple of disciplines having nothing to do with computer program, I discovered this about myself: I see and have a good long term recall patterns (forces and obstacles) which other might miss, and the repetitions and variations of patterns across different disciplines. I have a good "short term" memory of details while I work on a problem. I have a piss-poor mid-term memory.

Perhaps the only thing I can add to this discussion is some speculation. A pininstall modifies how the system will operate before the application is run. AFAIK, SFSes don't use pininstalls. And some applications which run when installed as a pet won't run as an SFS converted from such pet. So I would speculate that, regarding those "converted-to-SFSes" which don't run, the pininstall of its functional pet alternative may provide some clue --to those who understand the instructions they contain-- as to what symbolic links or other structural adaptations must be built into the SFS for it to function.

mikesLr
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LazY Puppy


Joined: 21 Nov 2014
Posts: 2007
Location: Germany

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jan 2015, 00:54    Post subject:  

Quote:
A pininstall modifies how the system will operate before the application is run. AFAIK, SFSes don't use pininstalls. And some applications which run when installed as a pet won't run as an SFS converted from such pet.

After building the SFS just make sure, the pinstall script is still existing. If so, rename it and put it into /root/Startup inside of the SFS Module. Shinobar's sfs_load will execute the script in /root/Startup after the SFS is loaded.

Another solution would be a RunScript -like I have created several ones available on the forum- to load the SFS and to execute the (also renamed) pinstall script by a menu entry (.desktop file) which points to the renamed pinstall script (add execution of the Application to its code end).

Again another solution would be to execute the pinstall script manually, which means: if it creates some symbolic links etc. just create them manually inside of the SFS to keep them permanently without the need to keep and execute the pinstall script.

_________________
RSH

"you only wanted to work your Puppies in German", "you are a separatist in that you want Germany to secede from Europe" (musher0) Laughing

No, but I gave my old drum kit away for free to a music store collecting instruments for refugees! Wink
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mikeslr


Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 2854
Location: 500 seconds from Sol

PostPosted: Sun 18 Jan 2015, 12:13    Post subject: Other Application Conversion Tools  

Hi All,

First, thanks Lazy-Puppy for the clear explanation regarding how to migrate a pet's pininstall into an SFS.

Looking for something else on my hard drive, I opened a folder I had carelessly just labeled "lina tools". As I said above, I have a piss-poor mid-term memory. Within it were the pets rg66 had published for converting and editing application formats, including one named SFS-Com for combining SFSes. You can find that pet here, http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=697725&sid=5209cd8c6613afb39851327e2aa076f8#697725

But there are many other tools on that thread worth considering. I only dissembled SFS-Com to confirm that its executable was a BASH-script. My best guess is that most --if not all-- conversion and editing tools are BASH-Scripts, some with GUI dialog boxes, and as such "distro-independent".

mikesLr
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5330
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

PostPosted: Sat 17 Oct 2015, 04:16    Post subject:  

In order to help me understand the relationship between the main puppy.sfs and a savefile and/or a new .sfs (loaded at boot or on the fly) and/or .pets - I ask the following questions:
1) Is it universally true that a savefile is loaded "above" the main puppy.sfs? (ie files in the savefile take precedence over the puppy.sfs)
1) Is it universally true that a .sfs is loaded "underneath" the main puppy.sfs? (ie files in the puppy.sfs take precedence over the files in the extra sfs - so that the sfs files are an addition only?)
2) Is it universally true that a .pet is loaded "above" the main puppy.sfs? (ie they can overwrite the files in the puppy.sfs)

cheers!
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