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Fatdog64-700/701 [April 22 2015] [CLOSED]
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jamesbond

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PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr 2015, 12:55    Post subject:  

Thanks, fixed.
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Tue 28 Apr 2015, 16:47    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
...
@gcmartin: What is "nameserver 0.0.0.0" doing in your /etc/resolv.conf file?
...
20 year old Cisco trick forcing local PC to manage access to DNSs in its local cache. But, it may be time to consider a change. My ONLY problem is that this URL issue ONLY is FD700s, not any Apples, Windows, all other LInuxes, smart devices needing WiFi internet access, none...just FD700. ??? While every DHCP LAN unit has never had this problem with URL resolutions, ever. Same router with no config changes in past 6 years.

jamesbond wrote:
... Perhaps, one of them.
Any ideas? ... As this could help @Kirk ID why the dual motherboard adapter no longer is "captured and used" properly. And, could help ID why the new behavior cropped up in FD700 when it was nonexistent in all the prior years of FD's history?

Just curious on the cause of functionality loss and reasons for behavior changes. Not trying to leverage anything other than that.

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jamesbond

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PostPosted: Wed 29 Apr 2015, 15:15    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
jamesbond wrote:
...
@gcmartin: What is "nameserver 0.0.0.0" doing in your /etc/resolv.conf file?
...
20 year old Cisco trick forcing local PC to manage access to DNSs in its local cache. But, it may be time to consider a change.
You definitely need to consider a change, because unfortunately you have been wrong in the last 20 years. You'd better read again what that nameserver 0.0.0.0 is supposed to do.
EDIT: I'll save you some googling: "nameserver 0.0.0.0" has the same meaning as "nameserver 127.0.0.1" and only makes sense if you run a DNS server or DNS caching server on the PC itself.

Quote:
My ONLY problem is that this URL issue ONLY is FD700s, not any Apples, Windows, all other LInuxes, smart devices needing WiFi internet access, none...just FD700. ??? While every DHCP LAN unit has never had this problem with URL resolutions, ever. Same router with no config changes in past 6 years.
I have no idea, sorry. From all the diagnostics you have given, your network seems to be okay. You can ping, your ping can resolve www.google.com to its IP address. "drill" works, but drill uses its own DNS resolver. Others that use glibc DNS resolver (nslookup, slapt-get, etc) all failed, as per your report. So it points to glibc being finicky, or else, something wrong with the resolver configuration. Or simply the version of glibc in 700 simply doesn't work well with your router.

Quote:
As this could help @Kirk ID why the dual motherboard adapter no longer is "captured and used" properly. And, could help ID why the new behavior cropped up in FD700 when it was nonexistent in all the prior years of FD's history?
Are you sure? How about testing Fatdog64 631 on your dual-ethernet mobo? Wink
EDIT: I'll save you some testing. The change probably happened in 630 release, where we dropped the venerable Network Wizard with the modern Network Setup, which does everything that Network Wizard does except handling dual-ethernet motherboard. And the reason why this feature is not supported is as I have said before: 80/20 rule.

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2015, 12:43    Post subject: Re: sensors  

SFR wrote:
Hmm, I think I found the cause - Hardinfo begins the search from temp1_input and if the file doesn't exist, it stops searching, so temp2_input (and subsequent) are not being taken into consideration at all.

This works for me, but note that I still don't know C, so most likely this could have been done somewhat better or differently:
Code:
# diff -u hardinfo-fossil/modules/devices/sensors.c.org hardinfo-fossil/modules/devices/sensors.c
--- hardinfo-fossil/modules/devices/sensors.c.org   2015-02-21 03:58:36.000000000 +0100
+++ hardinfo-fossil/modules/devices/sensors.c   2015-04-23 21:20:54.575006808 +0200
@@ -246,7 +246,10 @@
                   DEBUG("should be reading from %s", path_sensor);
                   if (!g_file_get_contents(path_sensor, &tmp, NULL, NULL)) {
                      g_free(path_sensor);
-                     break;
+                     if (count >= 256)
+                       break;
+                     else
+                       continue;
                   }
 
                   mon = g_strdup_printf(sensor->key_format, count);
#

Care to test my "hack", L18L? Wink

Greetings!

This patch is sound, I will take it, thanks. I don't understand why it didn't work for L18L, because the problem (and the fix) is exactly as indicated. The only other reason why it would fail is that is if the hwmon/hwmon1 directory does not have "device" symlink in it, but that is highly improbable.

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2015, 14:57    Post subject:  

#1
Prior dialogue Removed. sent as a PM.

#2
This URL behavior, discussed, did NOT appear on any local FD5s/FD6s until FD7s.

#3
Quote:
You definitely need to consider a change, because unfortunately you have been wrong in the last 20 years. You'd better read again what that nameserver 0.0.0.0 is supposed to do.
EDIT: I'll save you some googling: "nameserver 0.0.0.0" has the same meaning as "nameserver 127.0.0.1" and only makes sense if you run a DNS server or DNS caching server on the PC itself.
Dont know why, but NO URL issues in FD6xx. This is localized in FD7xx
No need to consider change. This operates just as it is described. And shows no detriment to either LAN performance or system performance (this LAN has always had many devices getting its LAN personality from the DHCP services in the router). Why should the router be changed when FD70x is the ONLY distro which has ever shown this kind of behavior. It it aint broke dont fix it (router), as over the years, syslog shows that over 120 different units have connected thru this router without any exhibiting this behavior. This includes PCs, smartDevices such as phones, etc. all able to use Internet, none ever showing this kind of problem. Further, it is already shown that nameserver statement presence/absence, in FD7s or when using a circumvention in FD7s does not impact FD URL problem. Is there any other reason why you are in disfavor of that nameserver statement? FD7x LAN performance is same in ping times and latency values as ALL other 64it PUPs tested, so no performance impact, positive or negative, is found.

Last
Your 80/20 rule, in development, doesn't seem to produce what I think you would hope; if the changes takes the 100% of users, and denies 20% of them, so that they have these problems.

But, it your distro, and if you feel this is proper, I can understand.

Cheers

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jamesbond

Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2015, 16:25    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
Quote:
You definitely need to consider a change, because unfortunately you have been wrong in the last 20 years. You'd better read again what that nameserver 0.0.0.0 is supposed to do.
EDIT: I'll save you some googling: "nameserver 0.0.0.0" has the same meaning as "nameserver 127.0.0.1" and only makes sense if you run a DNS server or DNS caching server on the PC itself.
Dont know why, but NO URL issues in FD6xx. This is localized in FD7xx
No need to consider change. This operates just as it is described.
Let's just agree to disagree then.

Quote:
Last
Your 80/20 rule, in development, doesn't seem to produce what I think you would hope; if the changes takes the 100% of users, and denies 20% of them, so that they have these problems.
Are you sure that 100% of Fatdog users have dual-ethernet motherboards? Shocked
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 4013
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Fri 01 May 2015, 20:59    Post subject:  

lol I got one with three... But based on my study of his issues I can`t help to think his motherboard or ram memory maybe getting old and flaky and it seems to have gone south late last year based on other threads...

and no I cant test since I do not even have Ethernet runs into that room.
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Sage

Joined: 04 Oct 2005
Posts: 5450
Location: GB

PostPosted: Sat 02 May 2015, 04:15    Post subject:  

Quote:
I do not even have Ethernet runs into that room

For testing (ping), ISP downtimes, emergencies, & co. I use a 30m patch cable to connect to either of my neighbours and also to the kitchen from the upstairs office router.
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SFR


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 1715

PostPosted: Sat 02 May 2015, 11:50    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
This patch is sound, I will take it, thanks.

Thanks!
And on related note, I've been trying to enable displaying of 'Boots' in Hardinfo.
From what I see Hardinfo uses 'last' command for this, so I have created /var/log/wtmp and yes - login events are being logged now, but for some reason 'reboot system boot' entries (req. by Hardinfo) are not there.
Is there anything else I have to do to enable this..?
___________

mcrypt (repo) - libmhash dependency is missing from slack-depends, there's only libmcrypt.
___________

Can we have:
inode/directory=rox.desktop
in /usr/share/applications/defaults.list by default?

It's useful for some apps, e.g. (the latest) Veracrypt, which now uses xdg-open (it used to be nautilus, like in Truecrypt) to open mounted containers.
Otherwise it opens in defaultbrowser.
___________

Oh, and F'N'R updated to v1.8. Wink

Greetings!

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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
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PostPosted: Sat 02 May 2015, 17:55    Post subject:  

Thanks @Ted Dog.

Yes, I did have some issues when I powered my home down for a long week and returned to find some PC would not boot with their old DVDs/CDs. Took me awhile to get the PCs that I use to behave. But found thru testing, that it was not RAM, but batteries. ... discovered after reseeding the several PCs.

The issue that James and I are discussing is his view on what needs to happen to use FD after changes were made to how FD (which incidentally was working no matter which motherboard was used) to now. His/FD development's changes whether he moved,personally, to deny multi-ethernet Motherboards or not, introduced a problem where some network users have experienced problems where no such problems exist. The most hampering problem is the URL issue.

But, its his distro and he can choose to leave or address it. And, its his choice to ignore or address it. It, flat is broken, and certainly does not exactly behave the way it used to. The fact that a circumvention is found does NOT fix the problem that exist. I have worked both understand the problem and articulate with system's tools how it manifests in FD where this does NOT show up in any other distro ever used over the history of this network. Something has been introduced which causes the problem.

Now, his focus is telling us that if you routers which has serviced the LAN flawlessly for years without the need to modify it for any PC's use, that the introduction of FD into your network will REQUIRE you to change your router's behavior. This is in light of a network which has perform properly for every PC that has be added/used it and every wireless device which has been added/used it and every phone which has been added/used it, and any other devices which used your network over the years without ANY, I REPEAT, ANY issues.

So, I rest. If FD development addresses it fine. If not, its their distro.

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rcrsn51


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 12627
Location: Stratford, Ontario

PostPosted: Sat 02 May 2015, 18:02    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
flat is broken .... will REQUIRE you to change your router's behavior.

Are you implying that your problem affects everyone?
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gcmartin

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PostPosted: Sun 03 May 2015, 03:39    Post subject:  

rcrsn51 wrote:
... Are you implying that your problem affects everyone?
You want to discuss its manifestation or pick apart the semantics? If you want to discuss it, PM me and I will show you a simple way to understand the problem. James has already verified when FD made the change that exist in FD, today.

And, I repeat, every distro, every PUP, every OS, and every item needing internet access has never had problems with URLs thru the gateway ... except this FATDOG version.

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jamesbond

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PostPosted: Sun 03 May 2015, 04:05    Post subject:  

SFR wrote:
And on related note, I've been trying to enable displaying of 'Boots' in Hardinfo.
From what I see Hardinfo uses 'last' command for this, so I have created /var/log/wtmp and yes - login events are being logged now, but for some reason 'reboot system boot' entries (req. by Hardinfo) are not there.
Is there anything else I have to do to enable this..?


I have never attempted this, because Fatdog uses busybox loginutils (login, passwd, su etc) and busybox init, and in the past the utmp stuff was not compiled in. It is compiled in today (you can check the busybox configs used for Fatdog here: http://distro.ibiblio.org/fatdog/source/700/patches/bb-configs/), but I am not sure how complete busybox implemetation is. The "reboot system boot" entry - I would presume it comes from "init", and I am not sure whether busybox init logs that activitiy.



___________

Quote:
mcrypt (repo) - libmhash dependency is missing from slack-depends, there's only libmcrypt.
Updated, thanks.
___________

Quote:
Can we have:
inode/directory=rox.desktop
in /usr/share/applications/defaults.list by default?

It's useful for some apps, e.g. (the latest) Veracrypt, which now uses xdg-open (it used to be nautilus, like in Truecrypt) to open mounted containers.
Otherwise it opens in defaultbrowser.

Definitely. I know the problem, I have been looking for the solution - and you found it! Thanks.
___________

Quote:
Oh, and F'N'R updated to v1.8. Wink
Updated, thanks!
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SFR


Joined: 26 Oct 2011
Posts: 1715

PostPosted: Sun 03 May 2015, 05:16    Post subject:  

jamesbond wrote:
The "reboot system boot" entry - I would presume it comes from "init", and I am not sure whether busybox init logs that activitiy.

Yep, that's init - I took the binary from Porteus and the boot was totally screwed up, but managed to get cmdline and issue 'last' command, and "reboot" entry was present this time.
Anyway, that's no biggie, I was just curious. I'm using uptimed for this purpose.

Thanks &
Greetings!

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jamesbond

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PostPosted: Sun 03 May 2015, 05:30    Post subject:  

gcmartin wrote:
The issue that James and I are discussing is his view on what needs to happen to use FD after changes were made to how FD (which incidentally was working no matter which motherboard was used) to now. His/FD development's changes whether he moved,personally, to deny multi-ethernet Motherboards or not, introduced a problem where some network users have experienced problems where no such problems exist. The most hampering problem is the URL issue.


This is disingenuous. There are two separate, unrelated problems, I know it, and you know it too.

Why do you choose to word them as if they are the same problem altogether?

Issue #1: DNS resolution problem, of which you have found a workaround yourself, by editing /etc/resolv.conf. This workaround, while inconvenient, works. You asked me what could be the cause: "is it drivers, kernel, loading arrangements, parms used on some commands or modules, ???" And I answered it: "perhaps, one of them.".

You asked me again:
Quote:
My ONLY problem is that this URL issue ONLY is FD700s, not any Apples, Windows, all other LInuxes, smart devices needing WiFi internet access, none...just FD700. ??? While every DHCP LAN unit has never had this problem with URL resolutions, ever. Same router with no config changes in past 6 years.


To which I have answered:
Quote:
I have no idea, sorry. From all the diagnostics you have given, your network seems to be okay. You can ping, your ping can resolve www.google.com to its IP address. "drill" works, but drill uses its own DNS resolver. Others that use glibc DNS resolver (nslookup, slapt-get, etc) all failed, as per your report. So it points to glibc being finicky, or else, something wrong with the resolver configuration. Or simply the version of glibc in 700 simply doesn't work well with your router.
(emphasis added).

And this issue #1 has nothing to do with issue no #2 because you said so yourself that you tested this on your single-ethernet machine:
Quote:
The dual-ethernet PC is still running a distro which has not been down in months. FD701 has been tested on DELL-Intel PCs with gigabit adapter on each's motherboard.
.


Issue #2: multi-ethernet motherboards support. You keep saying that it is not supported. This is rather untruthful. It *is* supported, you can use the network-setup to configure them (enable dhcp on both ports), and it works. You said so yourself.

The only thing that is *not* to your satisfaction, is that by default, (that is, on first boot, if you don't do anything, if you don't run network-setup, i.e. without lifting a finger), FD700 does not detect which is the active port (port that is connected to the switch/router). It is for this, that I give you the 80/20 answer. In case it is not clear to you: the 80/20 answer is and has never been for issue #1.

One more note: You keep saying that this works in prior Fatdogs (5XX and 6XX), and I gave you the answer I made the change on 630/631, when I changed Network Wizard with Network Setup. I was wrong on two points:
- The change happened on 18 April 2012 - before the first public release of Fatdog64 600 (not on 630)
- The change was related to replacing Network Wizard with WPA Gui (not when replaing NetWizard with NetSetup)

So, in the span of three (3) years, you are the only one raising this issue, making it 99.9/0.1 rather than 80/20.

Quote:
Now, his focus is telling us that if you routers which has serviced the LAN flawlessly for years without the need to modify it for any PC's use, that the introduction of FD into your network will REQUIRE you to change your router's behavior.


Now you have crossed the line here, by putting words in my mouth. I have never said anything like that, nor tried to steer you into that conclusion. For heaven's sake, you *found* that workaround (editing /etc/resolv.conf) *yourself* !!! All I said, regarding issue #1, in case you missed it, is: "I have no idea, sorry" why it happens for your network environment.

Last note:
I appreciate that you have tested. I acknowledge that you have difficulties. I understand that at present FD700 may not be suitable for your use because of some intractable problems in your environment, that I cannot solve.

But I do not appreciate you posting untruthful innuendos or making strawman arguments by putting words in my mouth.

Lastly - the only reason why I bother to write this post, gcmartin, is because I know that as a long-time supporter of Fatdog, your intent is to make Fatdog a better OS. Let's keep it that way.

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