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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Thu 13 Aug 2015, 16:10    Post subject:  

Hi Fred.
fredx181 wrote:
I cannot reproduce this from where I am now, logged in as puppy on openbox-jessie.
Very strange, btw, why can't it find fdisk? It's in PATH

Looking /etc/profile I guess it is because it exports the same path for user and root in OpenBox version:
Code:
if [ "`id -u`" -eq 0 ]; then
PATH="/opt/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games"
else
PATH="/opt/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games"
fi

export PATH

This is the same section in Jwm version and in MintPup:
Code:
PATH="/opt/bin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/usr/local/games:/usr/games"
[ "`id -u`" -eq 0 ]&& PATH="$PATH:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/sbin:/sbin"
export PATH

For user account sudo should export secure path in /etc/sudoers
For some reason ktsuss doesn't export secure path or doesn't use /etc/sudoers file.

Edit: Didn't see your Edit. Yes, it is the difference in /etc/profile
BTW I have some lines in /etc/environment needed for xdm and rox-filer fixes.

Toni
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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Thu 13 Aug 2015, 23:40    Post subject:  

You do realize, Fred and Toni, that you've discussed the, somewhat major I feel, difference between openbox and jwm /etc/profile PATH handling before. I can't remember where exactly, but been long time ago I know.

I have to say, I don't think user and root 'should' have the same default PATH (why should a normal user have access to executables in /sbin, for example). But main thing is that this difference seems to come back to haunt developments in the sense that scripts developed on openbox version sometimes it seems have problems on jwm DD/MintPup etc.

I think you can tell my opinion - the scripts should be written on the basis of the user default PATH not having access to admin binaries, but easy for me to say. More generally, it appears from reading these repeating problems that the jwm and openbox versions would be easier to maintain if underlying system configs were kept identical (aside from wm configs etc). I use both jwm and openbox versions at home, and I do generally run as root user, but that's only because I'm being lazy - I keep intending moving over to normal user most of the time, if only because running as root user encourages poor use of access control rights (appropriate file/dir permissions included) which is certainly a big no no in professional circles, and bad from an app developer's point of view since what works as root may turn out not to work as a normal user on big Linux systems.

William

EDIT: For the sake of balance, please let me also say that in terms of look and feel and pleasure in usage, the DD-openbox is the nicest, IMO... That is probably because openbox allied with xfdesktop and Thunar is such a pleasant combination - so no surprise to me that a non-technical user such as my partner likes that one the best. I'm a bit different though - I'm really into low resource usage at the expense of some of the 'niceties' and I also think JWM isn't too bad once tweaked a bit (I just haven't bothered since what is there is fine for me). And Rox is also very efficient (running several Rox filers doesn't seem to increase overall Rox resource usage much at all - basically once Rox pinboard is running, that seems to pretty much determine most all resources Rox ever uses... amazing really). But most modern systems have 'tons' of resources, so worrying about a few MB RAM here and there isn't probably very important to most people (even my 'newer' machines, the HP elitebooks, are from 2009 and have 2GB RAM for example - plenty for most of the junk I do no matter which of the DD or MintPup systems I'm running :-) But keeping normal user access controls as tight as big brother Debian/Ubuntu/Mint seems pretty important to me (despite the oft-discussed views of the Puppy Linux world more generally).

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Fri 14 Aug 2015, 03:09    Post subject:  

mcewanw wrote:
You do realize, Fred and Toni, that you've discussed the, somewhat major I feel, difference between openbox and jwm /etc/profile PATH handling before. I can't remember where exactly, but been long time ago I know.

Hi William.
I agree user should not have /sbin and /usr/sbin in path without using sudo. And I remember we had similar discussion before. In general this difference is not so important because using sudo (gsu) doesn't have problem to add secure path for user account.
But this difference makes impossible for Fred to find problems like ktsuss not exporting secure path while testing script changes.
Just for info in case Fred likes to do the same in OpenBox I have also this in /etc/environment:
Code:
GDK_NATIVE_WINDOWS=true #fix for rox-filer focus problem.
LD_LIBRARY_PATH="/opt/lib:/usr/local/lib" #xdm can't use libs from /opr/lib and /usr/local/lib without this.

I think we don't have other path differences.

Fred,
After some more testing and making deb packages for remaster scripts I agree it will be best to change inside gsu-root to use sudo. This will save us some ktsuss troubles in the future. BTW I can't remember why I had to make /opt/bin/blkid link but I guess it is also because the ktsuss problem we found yesterday.

Edit: Yes, /opt/bin/blkid link is needed because of the ktsuss problem. I will remove the blkid link after changing ktsuss with gsu.

Edit2: I think it is better to remove ktsuss and /opt/bin/ktsuss2 from the system and from dd/mintpup repository. If it is available in official Debian?Ubuntu repository it is user choice to install it. No need to have it inside the system since it doesn't work well in MintPup and DebianDog.

Toni
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4095
Location: holland

PostPosted: Fri 14 Aug 2015, 04:02    Post subject:  

Toni wrote:
Edit2: I think it is better to remove ktsuss and /opt/bin/ktsuss2 from the system and from dd/mintpup repository. If it is available in official Debian?Ubuntu repository it is user choice to install it. No need to have it inside the system since it doesn't work well in MintPup and DebianDog.


Yes, I agree with that, it's not working as it should, all other su commands give correct PATH (for root id), except ktsuss.
That's probably the reason that I changed /etc/profile, as a workaround to make ktsuss work properly.
I will change /etc/profile to the same as it is on JWM version.

Edit: Because of the changed PATH in /etc/profile 'obshutdown' isn't found when logged in as user, I think I'll solve that by creating symlink in /opt/bin.
Hopefully obshutdown is the only problem in Openbox version.

Edit2: Trying to make the change from ktsuss to 'sudo -E', I found that just this in /opt/bin/remastercow-start works fine:
Code:
xterm -T "RemasterCow" -si -sb -fg white -bg SkyBlue4 -geometry 65x14 -e sudo -E /opt/bin/remastercow

The 'sudo -E' will be ignored when running as root.
Can be similar for remasterdog.
Just first idea, maybe there is a better solution.

Fred
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Fri 14 Aug 2015, 16:42    Post subject:  

Hi Fred.
I prefer to change less as possible. Changing the content of one file only ( /opt/bin/gsu-root) is the best way to go. Attached gsu-root in archive if you like to continue the testing with this script. It is gsu-notimeout with added -E.
When I'm ready with the testing I will upload new remaster-scripts with /opt/bin/gsu-root included and new install scripts package.

BTW I had one situation when remasterdog and remastercow do not work because some process from previous remasterdog or remastercow is still active. There was error about /dev/sda1 is already mounted according the information in /etc/mtab. The error message is visible after removing 2> /dev/null from mount /dev/$DRV /mnt/$DRV 2> /dev/null line. I'm not sure yet if this could be a problem but I think you can reproduce it by opening second remasterdog while the first one is still active copying files. I will test this situation more.

Edit: It works for me starting remasterdog and remastercow at the same time now. Maybe I did something else to cause this error. I will try to reproduce it later.

Toni
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fredx181


Joined: 11 Dec 2013
Posts: 4095
Location: holland

PostPosted: Sat 15 Aug 2015, 09:20    Post subject:  

Toni wrote:
I prefer to change less as possible. Changing the content of one file only ( /opt/bin/gsu-root) is the best way to go. Attached gsu-root in archive if you like to continue the testing with this script. It is gsu-notimeout with added -E.


Yes, it's good solution, works ok for me from quick test.

Fred
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fredx181


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PostPosted: Sat 15 Aug 2015, 14:27    Post subject:  

Hi everyone,

*** New openbox-mintpup light setup ***

Thanks to the suggestions from William for using rox-pinboard!.
There's choice now to use rox-pinboard or tint2 left-panel for providing the desktop (see below and screenshots)

As I didn't want to change any existing settings for rox, there's one annoying thing:
The iconified windows from rox-pinboard are (for a part) under the conky window.
To disable iconified windows go in rox options and uncheck "Show iconified windows"

Info:
(see also README-setup in the extracted openbox-mintpup_setup-0.0.2.tar.gz)
-------------------
Openbox-mintpup setup, version 0.0.2.

Changes:
- Very much improved menu, it reads now from /etc/xdg/menus/mintpup-ob-applications.menu.
It's a modified /etc/xdg/menus/xfce-applications.menu
It looks similar to the menu in DebianDog Openbox_xfce version.

- Choice of 2 desktop types:
-- Rox pinboard, desktop provided by rox, with launcher icons, tranparent conky, tint2 bottom panel.
-- Tint2 transparant left-panel with launcher icons, tranparent conky, tint2 bottom panel.
To switch between them: Menu > Desktop Manager
Wallpaper chooser (Menu > Set Wallpaper) is different for Rox pinboard and Tint2 transparant left panel;
for tint2 panel it's nitrogen, for rox-pinboard it's the wallpaper gui program from Terry, just like on JWM.

To install: (can be installed over previous version 0.0.1, will overwrite old configuration in ~/.config/openbox when running 'Start Openbox' from menu):

After apt-get update :

FIRST: Install tint2_0.11+svn20121014-3_i386.deb:
This tint2 version is from Debian Jessie, the Ubuntu Trusty tint2 version is to old.

From terminal in this directory:
dpkg -i tint2_0.11+svn20121014-3_i386.deb
And:
apt-get -f install

THEN:
Install openbox-mintpup_0.0.2_i386.deb:

From terminal in this directory:
dpkg -i openbox-mintpup_0.0.2_i386.deb
And:
apt-get -f install

Total install size: around 9 MB

To start: Jwm menu > System > Start Openbox
To get back to Jwm from Openbox: Menu > Settings > Start Jwm

When installing from previous version installed while inside Openbox-mintpup session, upgrade to 0.0.2 by running Menu > Settings > Start Openbox.
Warning: this will overwrite the configuration in ~/.config/openbox
--------------------------
Download:

Edit: Link to openbox-mintpup_setup-0.0.2 removed, since it conflicts with new package jwm-obmenu (Menu Openbox for Jwm) if openbox-menu is activated.
Replaced by version 0.0.3, conflicting has been fixed.
https://googledrive.com/host/0ByBgCDlZZ8K5bUsxVnhCTkhoZDA/openbox-mintpup_setup-0.0.3.tar.gz

Toni, I really didn't want not interfere with JWM session, and I think I succeeded with that. except one thing:
In ~/.config/rox.sourceforge.net/ROX-Filer/globicons some icon paths are added (e.g. for conkytoggle), it doesn't show anything from that on JWM or Icewm though.

Edit2:
openbox-mintpup is now part of the mintpup repository, so to easy install, just in terminal:
Code:
apt-get update # might be required to update the package lists
apt-get install openbox-mintpup

Or install it from Synaptic package manager.

Fred
mintpup-openbox-tint2-icons.png
 Description   Openbox-mintpup with tint2 left-panel icons
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mintpup-openbox-tint2-icons.png

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mintpup-openbox-rox-pinboard.png


Last edited by fredx181 on Tue 08 Sep 2015, 11:51; edited 2 times in total
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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
Posts: 3882
Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Sat 15 Aug 2015, 16:12    Post subject:  

Hi Fred.

The link in the first post changed to your new openbox setup.

DebDog repositories updated with mpv, youtube-viewer, debdoginstallscripts_1.0.5_i386.deb, remaster-scripts_1.0.4_i386.deb with latest progressbar fixes and changed gsu-root. I will make updated packages for MintPup later. Fixes post for Wheezy and Jessie updated.

I can't reproduce again the problem I had with not working remastercow and remasterdog after the message sda1 already mounted. If it happens again in the future (it was with live-boot-3 no persistence) I will try to get more information before reboot.
I don't think the testing is enough yet for remastering and install scripts changes but all looks OK so far testing with all boot methods on my machine.

Toni

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futwerk

Joined: 07 May 2011
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Mon 17 Aug 2015, 20:46    Post subject:  

some new backgrounds.
mintpup20.jpg
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mintpup4a.jpg
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saintless


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Location: Bulgaria

PostPosted: Tue 18 Aug 2015, 02:40    Post subject:  

futwerk wrote:
some new backgrounds.

Thanks futwerk!
All mirrored here:
http://kazzascorner.com.au/saintless/MintPup/Screenshots/

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
Posts: 3200

PostPosted: Tue 18 Aug 2015, 22:16    Post subject: extra xterms appearing  

fredx181 wrote:
Hi everyone,

*** New openbox-mintpup light setup ***


Looking good Fred. One small issue I've noticed when checking resource usage:

When starting htop or top from Menu, a background xterm also appears. That hasn't happened in other versions of DD or MintPup as far as I recall.

William

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PostPosted: Tue 18 Aug 2015, 22:35    Post subject: desktop look and feel effects  

I don't myself have any particular favourite desktop, but I'm trying a psychological experiment by using the following on my partner's machine. I am testing my theory that it is not openbox or jwm differences that makes her like DD_openbox_wheezy look and feel the most. Rather, I suspect it is simply the wallpaper used and desktop icons placed vertically and horizontally rather than the Puppy-like traditional triangular desktop icon placing, which I also find somewhat ugly. We shall see ;-)

Note in my screenshot below (using MintPup jwm) I've not only adopted Fred's openbox_wheezy wallpaper but also made the taskbar icons a max of 32 bits (to look similar to Fred's current MintPup_openbox). i.e. I've modified the following ~/.jwmrc line 186 from:

Code:
<TaskList maxwidth="256"/>

to

<TaskList maxwidth="32"/>


because I like the effect. However, all this is just a matter of taste of course but shows how easy it is to change the look of the jwm version too.

I do note that, according to htop, the jwm version does use a few tens of MB less RAM though, even with conky disabled on openbox version, but that smallish difference probably doesn't matter much in practice on most machines or to most users.

William

Wow, PicDrop is so handy for quickly rescaling images. I used SCReen-shOT for the screen capture and just dropped the result into PicDrop to scale the image to 600 px wide max since I prefer that for forum use. Makes the displayed resolution a bit rough of course...
MintPup_jwm_William_600x375.png
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saintless


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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug 2015, 02:12    Post subject: Re: extra xterms appearing  

mcewanw wrote:
When starting htop or top from Menu, a background xterm also appears. That hasn't happened in other versions of DD or MintPup as far as I recall.

Hi William.

This is because Terry's makejwm.menu doesn't read the line "Terminal=true". To make terminal programs work in Jwm version (and MintPup) I use "xterm -e" where it is needed inside .desktop file.
I guess OpenBox menu reads the "Terminal=true" line and second terminal appears because of "xterm -e".

Quote:
I've modified the following ~/.jwmrc line 186 from:

Code:
<TaskList maxwidth="256"/>

to

<TaskList maxwidth="32"/>



because I like the effect. However, all this is just a matter of taste of course but shows how easy it is to change the look of the jwm version too.

I'm sure every user will like to change something, but changing ~/.jwmrc doesn't keep the changes after updating the menus.
You need to change ~/.jwm/jwm.tail and run Menu-Puppy.
~/.jwmrc is generated from the files in ~/.jwm after installing/uninstalling packages.
If you like to change the theme later ~/jwm/jwm.tail will be replaced with file from /opt/docs/jwm-themes so it is better to add the change in all files there too (or make the change again in ~/.jwm/jwm.tail after changing the theme).

Toni

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mcewanw

Joined: 16 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug 2015, 02:56    Post subject:  

Ah, thanks Toni for explaining how jwm menu gets processed. Now that
you've mentioned it I think I recall similar arrangement in Puppy itself. Anyway, modified jwm.tail now with same code change and all fine following my running menu-puppy and restarting jwm.

I imagine Fred will tackle the extra xterm issue for openbox version - I guess the 'proper' solution would be to change one of Terry's scripts (or a new intermediate script) to honour the exec from terminal line, but maybe a bit tricky.

William

EDIT: without having checked the source, I currently presume mk-jwm.main is the main menu creation script, which I guess is in BaCon.

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saintless


Joined: 11 Jun 2011
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PostPosted: Wed 19 Aug 2015, 03:12    Post subject:  

mcewanw wrote:
EDIT: without having checked the source, I currently presume mk-jwm.main is the main menu creation script, which I guess is in BACON.

Yes Smile
And unfortunately I can't do anything to fix this problem.
It also doesn't read files in ~/.local/share/applications
This was the reason to add Menu-MJWM as third menu option (which generates the menus much slower btw).
And we also have the official Menu-Debian (/usr/bin/update-menus method) generated from /usr/share/menu files.
I prefer not to touch the menu system. It was difficult to get it work well.
But it can be removed easy by uninstalling mkjwmmenu.
Then only the official update-menus method will be available for generating menus.

Toni
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