Puppy and SSD with limited lifetime and capacity.

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EEEpc_user
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Puppy and SSD with limited lifetime and capacity.

#1 Post by EEEpc_user »

Hello!

I have Asus EEE pc 901 netbook.

The properties are:
1) CPU Intel Atom 1.6 Ghz
2) SSD 1 - 4 Gb
3) SSD 2 - 8 Gb
4) 1024 gb RAM

I've spent a few days trying to figure out which linux-based distribution would fit it best and decided to try this one (tahrpup to be precise).

But I have a few problems related to hardware, maybe somebody can help me here:

1) SSD limited lifetime.

I have to minimize the amount of write operations. At the same time I wouldn't like to use the feature of loading everything into RAM. I'm planning to install some software and I suppose it'll fill up RAM entirely at some point, which I wouldn't like to happen. I'd rather save RAM for something else.

So, I suppose I'm left with 2 choices: Frugal install or Full install. Which one is better for SSD?

Also, any advice on how to prolong lifetime of SSD with tahrpup would be appreciated.

2) Limited space of SSD

So I have just 12 GB of space available. Moreover, I have to install OS to the 4 gb drive because trying to boot from the other one results in a failiure. I need to utilize all SSD space available for applications.

Spreading out applications across partitions and drives doesn't seem like an easy task, what would be the best solution here? Mounting a certain folder from OS drive (4gb) to the other one (8gb)?

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Burn_IT
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#2 Post by Burn_IT »

Frugal will try to avoid the source media after loading - that is its point.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

EEEpc_user
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#3 Post by EEEpc_user »

What kind of files do you mean by "source media" ?

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Burn_IT
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#4 Post by Burn_IT »

Puppy program files and anything in the save file.
The idea was that it loaded from a CD and then freed it up so that the drive could be used for other things.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

unicorn316386

#5 Post by unicorn316386 »

I have 1GB RAM and prefer frugal as well. You can disable saving to hard drive every 30 minutes and during shutdown in Menu -> System -> Puppy Event Manager and change Save Session time to 0, that way it will never write to hard drive unless you press Save icon yourself, or save to mnt/home. 1GB RAM with frugal is enough for me without any swapfile (OS uses <100MB).

rokytnji
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#6 Post by rokytnji »

I used to have the 4 gig /16 gig eeepc 900 celeron.

Unfortunately, all my documentation I made was lost when eeepc forums and MacPup original forums went defunct.

For Starters. If worried about those cheap Phison SSD drive longevity.
Format both the 4 gig and 8 gig ssd drives as ext2. Flag the 4 gig as "boot" while formatting it.

Do the frugal install on the 4 gig. Grub4dos goes on the mbr for the 4 gig.
The 1st save file can go on the the 4 gig.

The 8 gig is still empty. As you decide to install more applications and make bigger save files. You will need the

Code: Select all

puppy pfix=ram
boot cheat in grub4dos menu so to make a new save file. Boot into that mode. Make it, the new save file, as big as you want. Save it to the 8 gig ssd. The 8 gig ssd should be mounted before shutdown before offering that save choice. There will be a icon on the desktop to mount it. It is easy.

When done. Next boot should give a choice of save files to load. Before proceeding with completing boot process.

You can worry about pup modes later on after you get everything dialed in and done. The phison ssd won't fly apart using the ext2 file system.

You will need to keep a live puppy usb around in case of improper power off or shutdowns though. As ext2 file system is unforgiving for improper unmounts. Like when the battery dies when you are running or what ever.

The live usb will fix that when you run gparted and run "check" on both 4/8 ext2 drives . It will also prompt you to unmount them if they are mounted for what ever reason before doing check. No /swap partition allowed either if worried about ssd lifetime on these phison drives.

Like I said. All my puppy linux documentation on eeepcs is gone.

Here is what mine used to look like
http://oi55.tinypic.com/xy8ew.jpg

That iso now comes from here.
https://archive.org/details/PuppyLinuxPuppeee

Good luck with it. I'd stick with tahrpup instead of what I showed above.
It is more current and requires less work to dial in for new users.
I was just strolling down memory lane for a second.

I hope You know you can boot and install and run Tahr pup on a
Image

which probably has faster read and write speeds than those old cheap phison ssd asus put in those eeepcs.
Then use the internal ssd drives for what ever you want to store. Outside of the SD card. You can even do a frugal install to the 4 gig ssd. Use it to fix the 32gig sd card in case of improper unmounts. It Just takes a linux using scooter tramps imagination.

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8Geee
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#7 Post by 8Geee »

Nice try with the SDHC. One problem there is the poor reader installed in the eee. Those postage stamps are slower than the US Mail. Of the two SSD's the 4Gb is of better quality and faster. The 8Gb is basically a turtle.

I would find a newer usb 2.0 stick, and boot from that. Now theres 12Gb in both SSD's plus left-over in the stick... unless using a newer Puppy with f2fs that fills the stick.
Linux user #498913 "Some people need to reimagine their thinking."
"Zuckerberg: a large city inhabited by mentally challenged people."

EEEpc_user
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#8 Post by EEEpc_user »

Thanks for replies, especially rokytnji for a very detailed one! I'll follow your instructions and report. My plan is to use SSDs for now, and usb when they finally break.

I'd like to clarify if I understand everything correctly. First off all this:
rokytnji wrote:puppy pfix=ram
Does that mean that if I use both 4 gb and 8 gb drives, I have to always choose the option of running Puppy totally in RAM?
rokytnji wrote:Next boot should give a choice of save files to load
Let's say I install application 1 on 4 gb drive and application 2 on 8 gb. With this setup they won't be able to run simultaneously, correct?

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bigpup
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#9 Post by bigpup »

puppy pfix=ram is a boot option that tells Puppy to boot and not use the save file.
You only use it to do what it does.

Booting with this boot option is an easy way to make a new save file.
Normal shutdown will give you the option to make a save file, because you were not using one.

Normal boots, after you make a save file, will use the save file.

Normal boot-up of a frugal install using a save file.
The main Puppy files and programs will get loaded into ram.
The save file will get accessed as needed.

This info may help you:
Various ways to install puppy
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=60302

Basics of installing program packages
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=59597
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

rokytnji
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#10 Post by rokytnji »

Let's say I install application 1 on 4 gb drive and application 2 on 8 gb. With this setup they won't be able to run simultaneously, correct?
Just try it out. You will see there is no way to run mutiple save save files on boot up.

rokytnji
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#11 Post by rokytnji »

Those postage stamps are slower than the US Mail.
It is not on this netbook.

Code: Select all

# inxi -M
Machine:   System: manda product: Intel powered classmate PC v: Gen 1.5L
           Mobo: N/A model: N/A
           Bios: American Megatrends v: CM94515A.86A.0024.2008.0715.1716 date: 07/15/2008
# inxi -f
CPU:       Single core Intel Atom N270 (-HT-) cache: 512 KB 
           clock speeds: max: 1600 MHz 1: 1600 MHz 2: 1333 MHz
           CPU Flags: acpi aperfmperf apic arch_perfmon bts clflush cmov
           constant_tsc cx8 de ds_cpl dtes64 dtherm dts est fpu fxsr ht
           lahf_lm mca mce mmx monitor movbe msr mtrr nx pae pat pbe pdcm pebs
           pge pni pse sep ss sse sse2 ssse3 tm tm2 tsc vme xtpr
But is has been awhile since I owned a eeepc. I had a 900 and a 701SD at the same time. This netbook, is more better built than the Asus.

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mikeslr
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Filling in some details

#12 Post by mikeslr »

Hi EEEpc_user,

I hope you didn't take offense to BigPup's recommendation that you post your question here. As evidenced by his post on this thread, he, in fact, is one of the most frequent responders to posts by beginners. He made that suggestion because: (1) firstly, this is where the more seasoned fans look for problems newcomer's have; and (2) secondly, the Forum is already a Byzantine maze difficult to navigate. Unfortunately, the Forum's owner-administrator has, I've been told, semi-retired. He is kind enough to keep it up at his own expense; but no longer devotes time to move posts into some semblance of order. So we try as best we can to prevent the Forum from getting more complicated than it has to be.

Because of that condition, especially as a newcomer, you may find this webpage invaluable: http://wellminded.net63.net/ It is a google search engine dedicated to the Forum. Just plug in a couple of terms and it will respond with a list of links to every post dealing with them.

The following is long because (a) I assume you know nothing, and (b) later newcomers reading it may, in fact, know nothing.

As I understand your post, you have two requirements. The first is to avoid writing to your SSD's as much as possible. The second is to reduce the use of RAM as much as possible.

I agree with Burn_it and unicorn316386 that your first objective is best met by doing a Frugal Install. Although every change you make first takes place in RAM regardless of what operating system you use –Windows, Mac, Whatever-- changes do not become permanent until written to Storage – in your case one of your SSD drives. In a Full Install such changes are written behind the scenes much more frequently. As I understand it, with the exception of just viewing a document or a Webpage almost everything you do will generate a “Write to Storage

EEEpc_user
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Re: Filling in some details

#13 Post by EEEpc_user »

mikeslr wrote:...very detailed post...
Thanks for the very informative post, I appreciate your help!
mikeslr wrote:...I hope you didn't take offense to BigPup's recommendation that you post your question here...
No offence taken, this was just a little advice that I followed. I already find this forum very helpful and friendly.

Here's my progress so far:

- Burned tahrpup ISO on DVD;
- Booted from that DVD on EEE pc (I have an external CD/DVD drive);
- Formatted both SSDs to ext2 file system. On the primary one (4 Gb) I've noticed a partition of unknown type about 40 Mb, I've decided not to touch it since I have no idea if it has any importance to the netbook;
- Installed tahrpup frugal install, grub4dos, saved my first session to file, rebooted, save file was loaded successfully;
- Checked a few things: ethernet, wireless, sound, built-in camera and built-in microphone are all working. Although microphone is awfully quiet, but I'm going to deal with it later.

EDIT: removed solved question.

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mikeslr
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Size of SaveFile

#14 Post by mikeslr »

Hi EEEpc_user,

Congratulations on getting things working.

I'd leave the SaveFile at its current size. As is, it's about 500 Mbs larger than the largest SaveFile I've had --even after a couple resizings-- in order to install every application I might conceivably want to use.

A SaveFile is a block of storage medium of a fixed size. There's a good chance that much of your current SaveFile will remain empty unless you save datafiles to it.

Linux Ext2 was a good choice as the SSDs' format because, I think, SSD's are more or less like USB-Keys. Ext2 is not journalized like Ext3 and Ext4. Journalization requires more writing to media. But according to mikeb --I'm not a tekkie, he is and I generally trust his advice-- Ext2 is more prone to corruption than Ext3 or 4.

So I'd want to make use of the SaveFile as little as possible: to preserve settings, and install applications which must be installed. One way to minimize the installation of applications is to download pets and convert them to SFSes. Tahrpup's Package Manager give you the choice to just download a pet. And there are other pets on the forum you might want which are not in Tahrpup's PPM. You can download a bunch into an empty folder and then uses RSH's PaDS to convert them into one or more SFSes, http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 359#658359. About the only applications which will run as an installed pet but not as an SFS are those requiring frameworks like python. I suspect this has to do with the fact that the version of python required by such applications have to have "Priority" and "Priority" is given to the applications including python in the SaveFile and then to "builtins".

SFSes will be outside your SaveFile and need space on your Home Partition --the SSD on which your Pup is located. Your Home Partition is automatically and always mounted. Other drives must be mounted before they can be accessed. But you may want to install Startmount to automatically mount your other SSD. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 699#377699

If you are considering running XP programs under Wine, I strongly recommend the "Wine_MyPortable" from this thread: http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 297#755297. It, and the programs you install into it, will also be outside your SaveFile and need space, preferably on your Home Partition.

But even if the above doesn't interest you, I do not recommend saving data files to your SaveFile. If for any reason you have a problem with your system a new Pup ISO can be downloaded, a new SaveFile can be created and stocked. But lost datafiles are lost.

Puppy and the applications which run under it can access both your SSDs and any USB-stick you plug in. My preference would be to create folders into which datafiles are stored. On my Home Partition I have folders I'm likely to access frequently. On a second Partition I have folders for things I may want to use in the future. Those folders I use most frequently I symlink to /root:

Browse to /mnt/home. Create a folder by Right-Clicking an empty space, select New>Directory and give it a name, e.g. My-Videos.
Open a second File-Manager window to /root.
Left-Click-Hold and then drag the My-Videos folder from /mnt/home to /root and select Link (relative).

Do that with as many folders as your needs and imagination require.

When you're running an application and want to save a datafile you've created, the first place it will offer to save it is to your /root, and will show those folders which appear in /root including --for example-- the My-Videos folder that you've symlinked to /root. Same goes for opening files in an application. Anything you've saved to your symlinked folder, actually is written to its real location --which is outside your SaveFile.

Folders outside your SaveFile initially use only the space necessary to signify their existence. They expand as datafiles are stored to them. No wasted space.

But more importantly, if my SaveFile somehow becomes corrupt, I can always access the datafiles using a different Pup if necessary.

mikesLr

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bigpup
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#15 Post by bigpup »

Update Tahrpup so you have the latest bug fixes.

Click on Quickpet icon on desktop.
Quickpet->Info->Tahrpup bug fixes or tahrpup updates.

After all the bug fixes are installed, good idea to reboot so they all get saved.

Now start the Puppy Package Manager(PPM)
Should be offered the 6.0.2 or 6.0.3 service packs.
Install them.
Reboot.

Should now be totally updated to the date you did this.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

EEEpc_user
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#16 Post by EEEpc_user »

bigpup wrote:Update Tahrpup so you have the latest bug fixes.

Click on Quickpet icon on desktop.
Quickpet->Info->Tahrpup bug fixes or tahrpup updates.

After all the bug fixes are installed, good idea to reboot so they all get saved.

Now start the Puppy Package Manager(PPM)
Should be offered the 6.0.2 or 6.0.3 service packs.
Install them.
Reboot.

Should now be totally updated to the date you did this.
I suppose I've made a fatal mistake by trying to update from 6.0.2 to 6.0.3 first before noticing quickpet, it said update is succesfull but it still shows me that OS version is 6.0.2. I've already posted about it in the main thread before seeing your post. I hope that my save file didn't get corrupted, I'd rather not start all over again.
mikeslr wrote:Hi EEEpc_user,
...So I'd want to make use of the SaveFile as little as possible: to preserve settings, and install applications which must be installed. One way to minimize the installation of applications is to download pets and convert them to SFSes...

...I do not recommend saving data files to your SaveFile...

... other useful information...
Agreed, I've already created some folders that won't be touched by save file. Didn't know about sfs, I'll look into that, thanks.
mikeslr wrote: ...But you may want to install Startmount to automatically mount your other SSD. http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 699#377699...
Will that tool help me when creating save file on another drive? It seemed to me that it was mounted, I've used standart applications, yet OS wanted to create another save file in the 4 gb partition. Although after some researching I saw advice about just copying save file to desired partition. Will it be a better solution? That way I won't have to configure user settings again I suppose.

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#17 Post by bigpup »

I suppose I've made a fatal mistake by trying to update from 6.0.2 to 6.0.3 first before noticing quickpet, it said update is succesfull but it still shows me that OS version is 6.0.2.
This is a small bug in Tahrpup about not updating the version number.
If it did do the update correctly.
May need to reboot, at the bottom of Quickpet->Info it will show 6.0.3

Quickpet->Info->Tahrpup updates is the only way to update to 6.0.3.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

EEEpc_user
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#18 Post by EEEpc_user »

I've launched quickpet and indeed I saw this: "Service pack level 6.0.3"

So, it's just a display bug, right? Anywhere else I see 6.0.2 (Partview, grub4dos, messages before OS fully loads, like some 6.0.2 file loaded)

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bigpup
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#19 Post by bigpup »

So, it's just a display bug, right?
Yes.
The developer of Tahrpup is working on a fix.
It has no affect on proper operation.

He got it fixed in Quickpet->info to show the correct version.
Just needs to get the other locations to update.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

EEEpc_user
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#20 Post by EEEpc_user »

bigpup wrote:
So, it's just a display bug, right?
Yes.
That is such a relief, I thought I've messed up really bad.

Regarding using both drives for storage of program files, wouldn't this be a better solution:

Instead of 2 separate save files for each drive have just one for the main (4 gb). Copy some "heavy weight" folder from save file filesystem to 8 gb drive, and create a symbolic link on its place.

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