boycott systemd

[oui]

Devuan Jessie x86-64.

https://devuan.org/

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james@nosystemd:~$ uname -a
Linux nosystemd 3.16.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.16.7-ckt11-1 (2015-05-24) x86_64 GNU/Linux
james@nosystemd:~$ 

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james@nosystemd:~$ cat /proc/1/comm 
init

my experience is that you don't need some devuan to avoid systemD in jessie but very well now if you want to do that in SID

but I don't see some depository for dev1 + SID now

next problem is that debian creates installations isos with "live" and not with the most modern ubuntu's casper. and you can continue that very unpleasant constatation along the all line debian / ubuntu: all ubuntu derivates use casper. the debian ones not!

[01micko]

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testing/packages/eudev-3.1.5-i586-1.txz: Added.
Thanks to Jean-Philippe Guillemin.
Expect problems (especially with an initrd) unless everything depending upon
libudev.so.0 is recompiled. Those packages include: ConsoleKit2,
ModemManager, NetworkManager, aaa_elflibs, bluez, dhcpcd, gutenprint, gvfs,
intel-gpu-tools, kde-workspace, kdelibs, libatasmart, libcanberra, libgphoto2,
libgpod, libmbim, libmtp, libusb, libusb-compat, lvm2, network-manager-applet,
qt, sane, system-config-printer, udisks, udisks2, usbmuxd, usbutils,
util-linux, xf86-input-evdev, xf86-input-vmmouse, xf86-video-ati,
xf86-video-intel, xf86-video-modesetting, xf86-video-nouveau,
xf86-video-openchrome, and xorg-server. 

and

http://www.slackware.com/changelog/

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 Fri Nov 20 21:52:15 UTC 2015
a/eudev-3.1.5-i586-4.txz: Rebuilt.
       rc.udev: Don't update the hardware database index until / is read-write.
       Remove obsolete /lib/udev/udevd symlink.
a/udisks-1.0.5-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
       Eliminate redundant udev rule trying to call pci-db.
+--------------------------+
Fri Nov 20 05:25:18 UTC 2015
We've made the switch from udev to eudev, and everything seems to be working
perfectly. Big thanks to the eudev team for helping us bring Slackware's
udev up to date! Make sure you remove the old udev and install both of the
new packages (eudev and libgudev), and then the changeover to eudev should
go as smooth as silk. Really, the icu4c upgrade seemed more disruptive. :)
A reboot after this is probably better than "/etc/rc.d/rc.udev force-restart",
but that worked fine here, too. It would also be a good idea to regenerate
the initrd so that it uses eudev, but once again things worked fine here
either way. Have fun!
a/aaa_elflibs-14.2-i586-6.txz: Rebuilt.
a/etc-14.2-i586-4.txz: Rebuilt.
       Added input group, GID 71.
       Added SDDM user/group, UID 64, GID 64.
a/eudev-3.1.5-i586-3.txz: Added.
       This replaces the udev package.
       rc.udev: Fix mounting /dev/shm.
       rc.udev: Remove devtmpfs check.
       rc.udev: Remove persistent CD rules support.
       udev.conf: Remove obsolete udev_root setting.
       Patch 60-cdrom_id.rules to create alternate device names.
       Move system installed hwdb files under /lib.
       Remove obsolete udev_root references from the manpages, and install them.
       Thanks to Robby Workman.
a/libgudev-230-i586-1.txz: Added.
       This library is required to use eudev.
a/lvm2-2.02.134-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
a/sysvinit-scripts-2.0-noarch-22.txz: Rebuilt.
       rc.S: Remove obsolete UMSDOS related error messages.
a/udev-182-i486-7.txz: Removed.
       This is replaced by the eudev and libgudev packages.
a/udisks-1.0.5-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
a/udisks2-2.1.5-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
a/usbutils-007-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
a/util-linux-2.26.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
ap/gphoto2-2.5.9-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
ap/gutenprint-5.2.10-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
ap/hplip-3.15.11-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
ap/nano-2.4.3-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
ap/sqlite-3.9.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
ap/usbmuxd-1.1.0-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
d/gcc-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
       Patched to fix problems with Wine (and possibly other things.)
       Thanks to Spinlock.
d/gcc-g++-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-gfortran-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-gnat-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-go-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-java-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/gcc-objc-5.2.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
d/mercurial-3.6.1-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
       Renamed bash-completion file from mercurial to hg, otherwise it doesn't work.
       Thanks to Audrius Kazukauskas.
d/subversion-1.9.2-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
kde/calligra-2.9.9-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
kde/kde-workspace-4.11.22-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
kde/kdeconnect-kde-0.8-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
       Patched to fix problems with OpenSSH 7.x. Thanks to Eric Hameleers.
kde/kdelibs-4.14.14-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
kde/kig-4.14.3-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
l/ConsoleKit2-1.0.0-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
l/akonadi-1.13.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/apr-util-1.5.4-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/boost-1.59.0-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
       Shared library .so-version bump.
l/gtk+3-3.18.5-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/gvfs-1.26.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/harfbuzz-1.0.6-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/icu4c-56.1-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
       Shared library .so-version bump.
l/libatasmart-0.19-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libcanberra-0.30-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libgphoto2-2.5.9-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/libgpod-0.8.3-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libmtp-1.1.10-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/libsoup-2.52.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libusb-1.0.20-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
l/libusb-compat-0.1.5-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/libvisio-0.1.3-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/qt-4.8.7-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/raptor2-2.0.15-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
l/system-config-printer-1.3.13-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/ModemManager-1.4.10-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/NetworkManager-1.0.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/bluez-4.101-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/dhcpcd-6.8.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/httpd-2.4.17-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/libmbim-1.12.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
n/network-scripts-14.2-noarch-1.txz: Upgraded.
       Add loopback up/down/start/stop features.
       Fix bringing down a single non-bridge interface.
       Thanks to Xsane.
n/nmap-7.00-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
n/php-5.6.15-i586-1.txz: Rebuilt.
n/tin-2.2.1-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
x/intel-gpu-tools-1.9-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-input-evdev-2.10.0-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-input-vmmouse-13.1.0-i586-3.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-video-ati-7.6.1-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-video-intel-git_20151119_666f25b-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
x/xf86-video-modesetting-0.9.0-i586-5.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xf86-video-nouveau-git_20151119_6e6d8ac-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
x/xf86-video-openchrome-0.3.3-i586-7.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xorg-server-1.18.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xorg-server-xephyr-1.18.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xorg-server-xnest-1.18.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
x/xorg-server-xvfb-1.18.0-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
xap/audacious-3.7-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
xap/audacious-plugins-3.7-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
xap/network-manager-applet-1.0.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
xap/sane-1.0.25-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
xfce/exo-0.10.7-i586-1.txz: Upgraded.
xfce/xfce4-screenshooter-1.8.2-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
xfce/xfce4-weather-plugin-0.8.6-i586-2.txz: Rebuilt.
isolinux/initrd.img: Rebuilt.
       Removed udev, added eudev and libgudev.
       Fixed partition size output.
usb-and-pxe-installers/usbboot.img: Rebuilt.
       Removed udev, added eudev and libgudev.
       Fixed partition size output.
+--------------------------+

IMHO Slackware switching from udev to eudev is a significant development.

Slackware is important. Why? It is the oldest surviving Linux distro. DuckDuckGo it.

It is also the last independent distro that has its original benevolent dictator in charge (DuckDuckGo that too).

It is also one of the very few Linux distros that adheres to UNIX standards. There aren't many, perhaps Gentoo, Crux.. but they are even less user friendly (if you are of the mindset that MS Windows is user friendly ) than Slack. Otherwise look to BSD.

Is this the death of SystemD? Hardly (yet). Will it be noticed? Absolutely!

[amigo]

Yeah, I just saw today that Slack has changed to eudev.

This won't do much to stave off systemd elsewhere, though, as anyone using gnome or other things are depending on other bits of the systemd suite, especially logind. Unfortunately, none of the alternates to systemd which provide 'shims' have gained much traction either -nor vdev either.

But, I recently came across 'nosh' which is a new init for BSD, and it provides shims for nearly everything, and can integrate with systesm using sysvinit-style scripts, systemd 'service' files or upstart config files (maybe openRC too). I haven't achieved a full build of it yet as it uses some unusual build tools: 'redo' & Co. But, it is supposed to build on linux. It sounds like the most viable contender yet -especially if it gets acceptance in the BSD world.

[anikin]

Yes, eudev might be big news for Slackware proper. However, for Slacko, Tahrpup, Quirky, or any other Woof/CE based pup it's not really that important. Firstly, it's not quite clear whether Puppy is still alive. What's all the fuss about Woof CE, can you guys tell me what's been accomplished? Not the seventeen thousand lines of code as one of the gatekeepers is claiming, but the real stuff? Show me the goods - has the booting routine been rectified? Have you considered implementing simargl's workaround for Archpup instead of using the half-assed xorgwizard? What's the use of eudev, systemd or no systemd if Puppy is continuing to demonstrate malicious functionality - connecting my machine to icanhazip or ping Google without my consent and knowledge. That's what needs to be discussed, not the big, red herring, that Micko threw on the table. BTW, Barry discussed eudev a couple years ago http://bkhome.org/blog2/?viewDetailed=00168

As a side note, I recently had a look at goingnuts' pupngo. Haven't run it yet, (it won't run off of ext4 I think) just unsquashed it to check to see what's inside. I did so after reading jamesbonds' review here http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 640#872640 a very positive review, I should add. The first thing I checked was the ipinfo script (call me paranoid). Please, folks have a look at it:

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#20121005:heavy mods by goingnuts porting to gtkdialog1, ash, no gettext & no xmessage or yafsplash
#20140115: deactivated external ip look up - modified layout

	# external ip
	var0=""
	#var0="$(wget -O - -q icanhazip.com)"	#deact for privacy
	#var0="External IP: $var0"				#deact for privacy
	# tab 1 - interfaces
	var01=$(echo "Hostname: $HOSTNAME")
	var02=$(ifconfig)
	# write2file
	echo "$var01
${var0}
${var02}" > /tmp/interfaces

That's what responsible, well-minded, well-dressed developers do. They deactivate the crap, because they care about me, the user. Compare this to what you'll see in any other Puppy ...

[Iguleder]

What's all the fuss about Woof CE, can you guys tell me what's been accomplished?

See the Slacko 6.3.0 changelog and the commit log of woof-CE.

Show me the goods - has the booting routine been rectified? Have you considered implementing simargl's workaround for Archpup instead of using the half-assed xorgwizard?

"Puppy is a do-ocracy"

What's the use of eudev, systemd or no systemd if Puppy is continuing to demonstrate malicious functionality - connecting my machine to icanhazip or ping Google without my consent and knowledge.

The first is off by default, the second has been replaced. Again, see the woof-CE commit log. Overall, your reply sounds to me like a complaint and I don't like this attitude.

That's what needs to be discussed, not the big, red herring, that Micko threw on the table.

Poor little herring. Where is it? We need to throw it back into the sea as quick as possible.

They deactivate the crap, because they care about me, the user. Compare this to what you'll see in any other Puppy ...

... and I don't use AbiWord, but I don't blame developers for not caring about me because it's there. Also, in fact, I want it to be there, for all those who need it. Moreover, woof-CE allows you to build "privacy-oriented" puplets with this modified script you adore - go ahead and do that, I promise to be there to analyze your puplet's traffic and show you how false is your sense of privacy.

[mavrothal]

That's what responsible, well-minded, well-dressed developers do. They deactivate the crap, because they care about me, the user. Compare this to what you'll see in any other Puppy ...

Not that I think will change anything, but you might want to check a puppy too.
Not even that, just check the script in woof-CE.

[anikin]

The script in Woof-CE *testing* says:

33a48d0 26 days ago
@dimkr dimkr Disabled ipinfo's querying by default

I presume, iguleder disabled it for his Trisquel Pup. What about the master branch - Slacko and Tahr Pups? I posted this earlier in another thread http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic. ... 461#796461 It shows an earlier version of Slacko saying hello to icanhazip. Has that changed?

[BarryK]

Just for the record, Quirky has used eudev almost from its inception.

[mavrothal]

The script in Woof-CE *testing* says:

33a48d0 26 days ago
@dimkr dimkr Disabled ipinfo's querying by default

I presume, iguleder disabled it for his Trisquel Pup. What about the master branch - Slacko and Tahr Pups?

That would not be too difficult to check if you were really interested. Would it?

[anikin]

Of course it would not, you're right, and I did check it ... I know, I shouldn't bring this up, should stay above pettiness ... but so much emotional energy has been expended on What and Why?! It should've never been an issue in the first place. That's a welcome and long overdue step, if I were you, I'd make a separate announcement ... OK, let's move on, I'm not here to point a finger. Get it out *completely* from the GUI - it has no business being there. The benevolent dictator of Slackware, that Micko is referring to doesn't have it and with good reason.

[01micko]

Of course it would not, you're right, and I did check it ... (snip - emphasis, mine).

No you didn't. You are a pathetic troll, way worse than those that you accuse of being trolls. Either apologise or step off.


UPDATE: It is not I who needs the apology. Think about that before you bleat.

[anikin]

Of course it would not, you're right, and I did check it ... (snip - emphasis, mine).

No you didn't. You are a pathetic troll, way worse than those that you accuse of being trolls. Either apologise or step off.


UPDATE: It is not I who needs the apology. Think about that before you bleat.

Learn to lose gracefully, little chap. I don't have to prove anything to you. You screwed it, acknowledge defeat and suck it up before clinching a tiny fist.

*icanhazip is indefensible* - I warned both of you a long time ago, you didn't listen.

[cimarron]

Thanks for the good news about Slackware. They sound committed to offering a real alternative to systemd. If Mint is eventually forced to follow Debian's path, I'll look for a Slackware-based distro for my wife's computer.

[Iguleder]

I presume, iguleder disabled it for his Trisquel Pup. What about the master branch - Slacko and Tahr Pups?

I'll just put this here

This change is part of Slacko 6.3.0 and every Puppy built using woof-CE lately. Don't you dare to blame me for improving my puplets without sharing my code with others; everything in Librepup is part of woof-CE from day one.

Maybe, instead of complaining and accusing others of problems that don't even exist, you should invest your time in developing your dream privacy-oriented puplet or help fix other issues you find in Puppy. And if you decide not to, at least show some minimal amount of respect and gratitude to those who do that work for you

[rcrsn51]

Let's summarize this whole episode.

1. Many people complained about the icanhazip issue. The standard reply was "It's not a security problem. Don't worry about it."

2. Eventually, the "compromise" was to add a checkbox, but set it ON by default. This struck me as petty and disrespectful of people's concerns.

3. Then suddenly, Iguleder added a line to woof that turned the checkbox OFF, and not a SINGLE person commented. Apparently, all the community members who had previously resisted any change had nothing to say about the final solution.

Personally, this raises some questions about the decision-making process in woof and its transparency. But as I was once told, "Anything in woof is fair game."

[cthisbear]

" Let's summarize this whole episode. "

rcrsn51 has posted a perfect reply.

Chris.

[Keef]

I think 'perfect' is just a little bit of an overstatement. With knobs on.

[bark_bark_bark]

Of course it would not, you're right, and I did check it ... (snip - emphasis, mine).

No you didn't. You are a pathetic troll, way worse than those that you accuse of being trolls. Either apologise or step off.


UPDATE: It is not I who needs the apology. Think about that before you bleat.

+1, I wish I could +1 you a million tims

Thanks for the good news about Slackware. They sound committed to offering a real alternative to systemd. If Mint is eventually forced to follow Debian's path, I'll look for a Slackware-based distro for my wife's computer.

Instead of a slackware-based distro, you could use slackware itself. Slackware is my favorite Linux distro and Puppy at a close second.

[mavrothal]

...

I believe that this is a systemd thread.
Let's move elsewhere

[greengeek]

[*icanhazip is indefensible* - I warned both of you a long time ago, you didn't listen.

Actually, they did listen. It took time, but the end result is what you would have wanted (unless I am mistaken). The structure of woof is flexible and publicly available for others to have direct input into without waiting for "devs"to do their thing. (unless I am mistaken).

Decisions have to be made or else nothing progresses - this forum offers an opportunity for those who "have an opinion" to alter the perspective of "those who develop". That opportunity is very valuable but it does not constitute a "directive".

I don't think we should be too critical of devs when we have an equal opportunity to do what they do. Our opinion remains just an opinion unless we take action ourselves.