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 Forum index » House Training » Users ( For the regulars )
Puppy Linux has troubles with hard drive for Windows 10.
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purple379

Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Mon 14 Dec 2015, 21:56    Post subject:  Puppy Linux has troubles with hard drive for Windows 10.
Subject description: Linux can not write to hard drive.
 

I have a new laptop, Inspiron 3451, 2 GB RAM, 500 GB Hard Drive which I have upgraded from Windows 8.1 to Windows 10.

I have tried Fat Dog 700B2, and Slacko 5.3.1 and neither will write to the main, windows hard drive partition. One time I tried to mount partition, and could not read it either.

I tried Ubuntu, which gave a long error message saying the drive was unstable.

I ran the built in ePSA tests.

I now have Windows 10 running on it, looks like it is working.

Windows 10 is much better than I thought it would be, but I would not have laptop if I thought I could not run Linux on it. My initial google/internet on the problem does not indicate that others are having a problem.

Before I spend hours googling. Does anyone know if M$ has just come up with a means to prevent Linux from reading and writing to the hard drive?
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cimarron


Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Mon 14 Dec 2015, 22:30    Post subject:  

Windows 10 by default "shuts down" into a hibernate state, in order to startup faster. But this makes it impossible to then access the Windows partition with linux (or any other OS).

If you want to access the Windows partition with linux, then disable "fast startup" so Windows shuts down normally. This article explains how to do this: http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-disable-or-enable-fast-startup-in-windows-10/
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unicorn316386

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 208
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Mon 14 Dec 2015, 23:04    Post subject:  

purple379 wrote:
but I would not have laptop if I thought I could not run Linux on it.

I imagine you could boot into puppy on a USB stick, then delete the existing Windows 10 hard drive partition(s) with GParted (wiping out Windows 10), then use the "unallocated space" to add an ext partition to the hard drive and put Linux (and a new bootloader) on it, unless it's locked in UEFI? Someone donate me a Windows 10 laptop so I can try this brute force method. Laughing
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purple379

Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Mon 14 Dec 2015, 23:30    Post subject: fast startup  

I had disabled quick start in the UEFI/BIOS. The actual point in the control panel to for me to disable quick start is different than what is shown in the article. I tried to change it as per article,

No Joy.

So I will have to change more of the settings.

Maybe it is because I use the Menu Shut Down rather than the Power Button that it does not release hard drive.

When one tries to change the UEFI/BIOS settings, turn off UEFI, turn off secure boot, turn on Legacy mode. Turn off Windows Boot Manager, I get messages saying that, "Changing this setting may prevent your OS from booting or require a reinstall.'

Not sure if I want to throw away Windows 10. Fat Dog has UEFI, and can boot while the UEFI is turned on, if the computer allows it. However in this Inspiron Laptop one must turn off UEFI and Secure Boot, Windows Boot Manager' to be able to tell it to boot from USB connected optical drive.

One of the reasons I bought this is because it can come with Linux on it. So I thought it should work.

Inspiron does boot Linux. I have gotten Fat Dog to boot it up. There was one place where some folks were talking about having problems with Windows having similarly locked them out of writing to their personal folders. Had something to do with whether they had admin privileges. Fellow suggested copying files (he had read privileges) over and then back to get them to read/write. When that failed, someone suggested changing the privilege levels in Windows Explorer. Another pointed out that Windows 10 has an hidden admin account from which things can be effected.

Someone had a command to enter in Linux to change the privilege level of the folders/files from Linux.

Might be that Microsoft, while trying to make sure one account is not written on by another account, has done something that Linux does not emulate.

I think I should try to change some of the other switches related to fast shut down.

I am tired now. Maybe tomorrow or the day after.
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cimarron


Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec 2015, 00:35    Post subject:  

What does "no joy" mean? Did you change the setting described in the article? (This is different from the "quick boot" setting in the BIOS) The article fails to say you should click "save changes" after unticking the "fast startup" box.

This worked for me on three different Windows 10 computers that wouldn't allow linux to access the Windows filesystem.
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purple379

Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec 2015, 08:07    Post subject: I was tired when I tried this last night
Subject description: thanks for trying to help.
 

I am not sure if I ticked save changes. I will try that again this morning.

by no joy I meant I could again start Linux but I can not save on hard drive. The error message did not have a number.

The page my Windows 10 Inspiron presents to me where one can make the change of fast startup is different than the article, in that it presents me with more options.

A bit later: I am pretty sure I used apply in windows for power options.
First effort: Fat Dog 700 b2 I did a click on sda5 to mount it. I tried a save as from firefox, cruised over to sda5. and it did not save file. I unmounted sda5, and did a right click on the sda5 icon on the bottom of the screen. to use the other option to mnt sda5. Partially works. I can save abiword file In a new folder I created with puppy onto hard drive. I tried firefox again. If I try save as with firefox, cruise over sda5, for last modified is unknown, and will not save.

I did create a save file on sda5.
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cimarron


Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec 2015, 09:21    Post subject:  

I'm guessing sda5 is your Windows partition? Or is this a different problem?

If you can mount the partition and save with Abiword then it's working correctly. It sounds like you're having a problem saving files from Firefox only?
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Ted Dog


Joined: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 4013
Location: Heart of Texas

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec 2015, 11:31    Post subject:  

Purple good to see you back There is low level safe guards by the NTFS mounting utility which is protecting you from having a situation which causes data corruption next time windows boots. There is a incompatible setup by windows by default, you need to go into windows and force it to shutdown cleanly it will not unless you force it. Steps where given before turn off hybernate and fast boot. Google windows and fastboot and or hybernate to get directions.
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purple379

Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec 2015, 16:01    Post subject: Sorry, I thought I said sda5 was the main Windows partition
Subject description: Not a good idea to touch any other partition
 

Which brings up the question, how many partitions can Puppy handle? Windows 10 has six or seven, plus the USB key, then the optical drive.

Hi Ted. Hope things are going well for you. After the last few weeks, I guess one could say things are going swimmingly here.
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unicorn316386

Joined: 07 Apr 2015
Posts: 208
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue 15 Dec 2015, 16:11    Post subject:  

purple379 wrote:
Which brings up the question, how many partitions can Puppy handle? Windows 10 has six or seven, plus the USB key, then the optical drive.

It can handle more than that no problem from what I've seen Smile
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=876792#876792

cimarron wrote:
This worked for me on three different Windows 10 computers that wouldn't allow linux to access the Windows filesystem.

That's good news. Maybe I'll get a used Win10 laptop when they go down to $40 in 2025 (no need for new hardware yet Laughing ).
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purple379

Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 126

PostPosted: Tue 22 Dec 2015, 12:20    Post subject: Windows Ten Hibernate hard drive.
Subject description: Power saver is part of the answer.
 

This is my report on this issue. While the Control Panel for Power Savings is different than those pictured in article. Indeed one can change the settings to Power Off when using Power Button (and using Power Off in Windows Ten works the same as well) and switching the UEFI/BIOS to disable Fast Start Up. Then I can boot Tahr Pup while EFI is set to Secure Boot Off, and Legacy Mode. Selecting the startup drive. Then I can start Tahr Pup 64 bit. Seems to work as I would expect. While working with this I saw for the first time the message that the hard drive is in Hibernate when Tahr Pup looked on the hard drive for a Puppy file.

This is on my Alienware 14 which is from a 2012 design, and fourth Gen Intel chips. I read online that manufacturers have the option to install an EFI which might not have Legacy mode.

I will play with the Dell with the minimal hardware later. I already know I can boot Tails 1.8 with the Dell. Not sure of all the things which might not work.

Thank all of you for your help.
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cimarron


Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 293

PostPosted: Wed 23 Dec 2015, 12:01    Post subject:  

An article on this problem was just posted on How-To-Geek:
How to Mount Your Windows 10 (or 8) System Drive on Linux

It provides the same solution as the article I posted above, along with additional information. Especially useful are the mount parameters (ro or remove_hiberfile) that allow mounting even in a hibernated state.
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