THIS is the main reason I switched to Puppy.....

[Mike Walsh]

Evening, all.

Came across this article on Infoworld.....and immediately thought of my own experiences with Ubuntu.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/304565 ... dates.html

It all worked fine when I first switched in May 2014, after XP reached EOL. (The fact that I've since re-installed XP is neither here nor there; I'm far more tech-savvy than I was even just a few years back...)

After a few months of Canonical's continuous, seemingly never-ending rounds of daily updates, it got to the point where my graphics, in particular, started crashing & freezing, completely at random.....especially every time I tried to open a browser (any browser!)

I'd been experimenting with Puppy for a couple of months at this point, and had acquired sufficient understanding of Puppy's wonderfully unique way of doing things to feel comfortable in switching completely; and wonder of wonders, the graphics problems cleared up.....just like that.

Of course, to noobs, especially those coming from Windows, continuous updates are seen as a good thing. This is comforting. This is normal. This is to be expected.....

I was just curious as to whether anybody else in our community has experienced this kind of system and/or hardware degradation, due to never-ending updates for the sake of updating.....just because they're there, and available.

Or is it just me?


Mike.

[rokytnji]

Well Mike.

Being a AntiX dude running debian experimental repos on a P3 IBM T23.

Which. That T23 has run everything from MacPup Icewm to MyWolfe-028 . At one time or another.

I have to tune motorcycles from time to time. So I have to run Windows.
On more robust laptops of course.
Vbox and Wine is not a option for the muli-hundred dollar run only once drm software. I won't take a chance on hundreds of dollars .

Anyways. I run what I run like a wrench in tool box. If it works for me. Fine and dandy. I do not sweat updates or over think things too much, because of my skill set given freely to me by members here and other developers that are my online friends.

Ubuntu backed you into a corner because of your hardware (from what I can tell) and you adapted to it. Fine and dandy.

Youtube tried to leave my IBM T23 into the dust. But SMtube with mplayer back slapped youtube into working again and my P3 cpu does not break a sweat.

I figure with everyone. Run what you brung and makes you feel comfy.
It is what choice is all about.

Lately, Carolina Puppy Linux is my current runner on one of atom netbooks I carry on my motorcycle. I don't mention this much. Because Carolina has been rock solid/trouble free on my netbook.

http://i.imgur.com/eI7arnm.jpg?1 >>>>> I took that shot with my netbook hooked up to a external monitor and 3 gig external samsung drive running along side also.

Happy Trailz, Rok

[Mike Walsh]

Morning, Roky.

I guess you're right about Ubuntu backing me into a corner. The problem with that is that you cannot turn off the update notifications. You do have the choice as to when you install them (if at all).....but until you do, it constantly nags you with pop-up reminders!

With Pup, I update what I want to, when I want to.....and that's if I think it needs doing. I will (and do) update Flash on a regular basis; I've seen machines that have been bricked by Flash exploits. Don't want that. Don't need it!

Apart from that, I only update if there's some advantage to be gained. Otherwise, as the old saying goes; "If it ain't broke..."

All the best.


Mike.

[Moat]

Hi Mike -

The problem with that is that you cannot turn off the update notifications.

Hmm... odd. I know in my Mint 17 Mate install on this old laptop, automatic update checking can easily be disabled (un-ticking a checkbox in a "startup services" GUI, IIRC). As well, individual packages in the Update utility can be selected to be ignored, via right-click (again, IIRC as I'm not on that OS ATM). Really easy peasy, on Mint.

I'd hafta' think there's some way of doing the same on Ubuntu? It's Linux, after all... complete power/control to the user, right?!

That said, I've applied pretty much all of the updates that have come along for this Mint 17.1 Mate in the almost two years since 17's release, and - aside from a fairly major desktop glitch when I tried "upgrading" to 17.2, prompting me to re-install to 17.1 - it's been flawless... even smoother/faster than initially, if anything.

So I guess, truly, YMMV!

FWIW,

Bob

[Packetteer]

Hi Mike
Same thing here with Ubuntu.
I went to Linux to get away from the constant updates. Loaded Ubuntu
and thought I had installed Windows by all the updates Ubuntu wanted to do,

If it was not for Puppy Linux I would have had to replace this very old Laptop
years ago.

Also especially like the backup one file and one file only and your whole
OS is backed up.

Best Regards
John

[Mike Walsh]

@Flash:- Thanks for re-locating this. I'm guessing it was you; after posting, I was having second thoughts about the wisdom of putting it in 'Truly off-topic'!

Hi, Bob.

Hmm... odd. I know in my Mint 17 Mate install on this old laptop, automatic update checking can easily be disabled (un-ticking a checkbox in a "startup services" GUI, IIRC). As well, individual packages in the Update utility can be selected to be ignored, via right-click (again, IIRC as I'm not on that OS ATM). Really easy peasy, on Mint.

I'd hafta' think there's some way of doing the same on Ubuntu? It's Linux, after all... complete power/control to the user, right?!

Oh, I agree with ya. There probably is a way to do that in Ubuntu. But Ubuntu was my very first foray into the Linux ecosphere, and to be honest, I had more fish to fry than figuring out how to disable updates. Like wifi, graphics, etc, etc. And having only left Windows a few short weeks previously I, like most Windows refugees, at that time viewed constant updates as a reassuring, normal facet of OS operation!

We live and learn...don't we??

But my point is that, constant updates or no, any such updates shouldn't break perfectly functional hardware simply for the sake of updating. Newer is not always 'better'. Of course, it just teaches you about manufacturer's support lifecycles all the quicker. My old Dell lappie (14 yrs old and still going strong) hasn't been supported by Dell for an age.....Puppy was the best thing that ever happened to it. Even my 'big' Compaq desktop was still supported by HP until about 5 months ago. Now, as far as they're concerned, it's a dinosaur that should be put out to pasture. Why, for heavens sake, when it's still perfectly functional? It's been upgraded so far that it's not even remotely the same machine I started out with, and will still give many modern machines a damn good run for their money!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Mike
Same thing here with Ubuntu.
I went to Linux to get away from the constant updates. Loaded Ubuntu
and thought I had installed Windows by all the updates Ubuntu wanted to do,

If it was not for Puppy Linux I would have had to replace this very old Laptop
years ago.

Also especially like the backup one file and one file only and your whole
OS is backed up.

Hey, John.

Couldn't agree more. It was only a short while after starting to immerse myself in Linux, and realising there was a lot more to it than just the 'big' mainstream distros, that I came to understand that a hell of a lot of folks shared my viewpoint; right round the time that I started getting constant crashes & freezes with my graphics. (I don't use a graphics card; never needed to.....the onboard graphics in my Compaq PC still work extremely well, and give a pin-sharp display that's fine for my graphic design hobby. The single PCI-e slot currently hosts a USB 3.0 adapter card that allows super-fast file transfer times to and from my external hard drive.....which is of far more use to me.) But Canonical, in their wisdom, figured it was more important to support the very newest stuff all the time.....and to hell with the older hardware.

Puppy is truly the most lightweight, easy to use, and most versatile small Linux distro I've ever found for my use case. I mean, how many other OS's can you clone with simply a copy'n'paste operation, run Grub4DOS, and have a complete operating system up & running again, in as little as 10 minutes? I've yet to find one.....

Constant updates are a necessary aspect of life with Redmond's OS. With Linux, though, you have a lot more choice.....and updates, to me, are something that only need doing if you actually stand to gain something from them. The 'permissions' system in Linux pretty well stops most of the crud that targets Windows 'dead in the water'.....even if you use WINE, like I do for a few graphics applications for which I've never found a satisfactory equivalent in Linux.

Most of the 'mainstream' distros do, of course, fiercely compete for the steady trickle of disillusioned former Windows users.....


Mike.

[8Geee]

I did feel this way back in 2008 when w98-2 finally died, and 'admin' versions of Win became the 'norm'. I saw admin as a very corrupt way of doing business... let the 'trusted developers' gain access to my machine to make it 'safer', and 'more enjoyable'. This policy scores very high Mach points. And as we have seen, Windows products suffer an update addiction. There has never been a microsoft OS in this 900a since purchaased in 2009, and in the 702 model purchased earlier in 2008. I feel much safer, and it is more enjoyable than M$.

[Moat]

Hi Mike -

... any such updates shouldn't break perfectly functional hardware simply for the sake of updating. Newer is not always 'better'.

Absolutely! I did, after all, "break" my perfectly functioning Mint install going for a point release update. Newer was certainly not better in that case. To be fair, I came away from the experience with the impression that my particular issue after the update was rare, and likely related to something specific with my 11 year old hardware. I asked about it over on the (quite active) Mint forums, and... not a peep. Crickets. But Mint's been otherwise so good to me, t'was definitely worth a fresh re-install and tweak-to-perfection session.

Why, for heavens sake, when it's still perfectly functional?

I love the fact that Linux - and Puppy in particular - can work so well on "older", "obsolete" hardware. All of my stuff was either dirt cheap to buy or hand-me-down, "old" hardware that cost me zilch, zero, nada... and all of it does the job with aplomb. Maybe it's just a case of me not knowing what I'm missing, but if I'm considering (i.e. - drooling over!) updating to newer hardware, it's likely some (gasp!) dual-core, 2 GHz or higher, few+ years old lappie on the local Craigslist... clean examples occasionally spotted for somewhere between $35 and $100. Inexpensive, very capable, more than perfectly useable for day-to-day general computing... in no way obsolete! Hmm... maybe I shouldn't be spreading the word... the masses may figure it out, and prices might skyrocket! Sssshhhh - our little secret...

That being said, I long ago figured out how to disable auto-updating on Windows (along with many, many other things), and when tuned as such, XP was/is a superb OS, IMHO. Nearly as light and responsive as Puppy on (10+ year) older hardware, and frankly lighter/faster/more efficient and responsive than most modern Linux distros. And 7 - set up similarly - is actually pretty darn excellent, too (with a gorgeous, if somewhat flawed, GUI). But yes - auto-updating absolutely has to be disabled on Redmond's stuff! Step 1!

Bob

[Ted Dog]

Wish there was a way to turn off the nag messages that software is out of date when you turn off update in windows8. Since I watch compatible videos on win8 to save heat issues ( linux doesn't work as good running videos back to back ) I can count the number of times I have updated ( not testing the update methods ) on one hand and still have two fingers left over from that hand.
Not that I don't fix stuff but not a full scale update just to update. or pre-update a system to remaster. Should investigate, found a version of fatdog64 that everything seems to work on my laptop but screen graphics are poor and better tools where made in later editions wonder 8f updating would work.

[rokytnji]

All of my stuff was either dirt cheap to buy or hand-me-down, "old" hardware that cost me zilch, zero, nada

I know what you mean

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions ... liver-174/

[Mike Walsh]

Agree 100%, Bob!

Every one of my machines is a 'hand-me-down', from family members who upgraded to newer Windows versions by the simple expedient of buying a new machine with it pre-installed. In every case, it's perfectly serviceable, and has still got years of life left in it.

And with me being a born 'tinkerer'.....


Mike.

[cthisbear]

Ted Dog: Maybe here...

How to stay on Windows 7 & 8 forever: disable GWX and uninstall the KB3035583 update to stop Windows 10 upgrade notifications

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/how-to/windo ... r-3614204/

http://www.drivethelife.com/windows-10/ ... s-7-8.html

Also this may help others....Never 10

"Easily Control Automatic and Unwanted
Windows 7 & 8.1 Upgrading to Windows 10 "

https://www.grc.com/never10.htm

Read about it here...SMH

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/gadget ... nst5k.html

Chris.

[Pelo]

"I'd been experimenting with Puppy for a couple of months at this point, and had acquired sufficient understanding of Puppy's wonderfully unique way of doing things to feel comfortable in switching completely; and wonder of wonders, the graphics problems cleared up.....just like that."
Whan you have Puppy Linux available, when you swicth on your computer, you choose it in the menu list, because it boots faster, and it permits you to do as much as Ubuntu, without wasting time answering a lot of questions or asking authorization. Ubuntu is quickly boring
God pupsaves Puppy, and its family ! Official tree here
Many OS are now based on Puppy (Puppy trade Mark often hidden, because of low-cost image)

[TyroBGinner]

Hey rokytnji...

I would love to hear about what optimizations you have used with your P3 to get the most out of it. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks




Oh, and in the spirit of answering Mike Walsh's question, I use Puppy as it is small, light, and portable.

[rokytnji]

Hey rokytnji...

I would love to hear about what optimizations you have used with your P3 to get the most out of it. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks




Oh, and in the spirit of answering Mike Walsh's question, I use Puppy as it is small, light, and portable.

Right now the t23 is doing beta testing duties for AntiX 16. I run a SMC wireless N pcmcia card on it. I also use 2 port usb and 2 firewire port pcmcia card on it also which fills both pcmcia ports. All work after I install. Whether it be Puppy or or anything else.

The wireless card
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMCWCB-N2-EZ-2- ... xyx0JTim5T

Beta testing the non pea i486 4.4 kernel. My laptop is a must have for the distro team I belong to because of the savage graphics chip. Newer xorg and savge, sis, and via chips do not play nice anymore with the open source savage, openchrome, and I forget the name of the open source driver for the via chip tonight.

I watch videos outside of my browser on youtube using smtube with mplayer but puppy has other players also for that that I am sure other members can mention. I hope that helps you out.

I used to run a A22m IBM P3 with 512MB of ram. But I sold it.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 193#492193

I am 2 screws short of finishing my screwup upgrade on a z60M also.

http://antix.freeforums.org/ibm-z60m-cp ... t6327.html

starhawk might grin on that one.

[rokytnji]

Hey rokytnji...

I would love to hear about what optimizations you have used with your P3 to get the most out of it. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Thanks




Oh, and in the spirit of answering Mike Walsh's question, I use Puppy as it is small, light, and portable.

Right now the t23 is doing beta testing duties for AntiX 16. I run a SMC wireless N pcmcia card on it. I also use 2 port usb and 2 firewire port pcmcia card on it also which fills both pcmcia ports. All work after I install. Whether it be Puppy or or anything else.

The wireless card

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMCWCB-N2-EZ-2- ... XQEgpTBiZm

The usb and firewire card.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adaptec-AUA-142 ... xyx0JTim5T

Beta testing the non pea i486 4.4 kernel. My laptop is a must have for the distro team I belong to because of the savage graphics chip. Newer xorg and savge, sis, and via chips do not play nice anymore with the open source savage, openchrome, and I forget the name of the open source driver for the via chip tonight.

I watch videos outside of my browser on youtube using smtube with mplayer but puppy has other players also for that that I am sure other members can mention. I hope that helps you out.

I used to run a A22m IBM P3 with 512MB of ram. But I sold it.

http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 193#492193

I am 2 screws short of finishing my screwup upgrade on a z60M also.

http://antix.freeforums.org/ibm-z60m-cp ... t6327.html

starhawk might grin on that one.

[TyroBGinner]

Thanks for the fairly extensive response. I am looking more for improvements via software, and I guess I was thinking you were working along those lines. It is surprising to see such hardware being so available and inexpensive. My case centers around an old "desktop" computer, so the notebook computer hardware would not help. I wonder if there exist old cards (likely PCI) that are correspondingly affordable. It is academic, anyway, as I don't want to spend good money on something so old. It is long past time for an entirely updated computer. I think I will try a fully overclockable processor and motherboard - something in the top of the i5 range or an fx-8350 or better with a motherboard up to $150 in price.

[Puppyt]

Why did I switch to Puppy? Having recently been forced to use M$ Win7 computers at work for the past fortnight, an IE-only networked environment (security risk popups ad nausum, update warnings, "your usb needs to be scanned and fixed", etc etc) has felt like I've been having my nose rubbed continously in the mistakes of well-meaning but ignorant University IT and Administrivia personnel. And the M$-inflicted masses just swallow it all up, stick on that hamster-wheel like their lives depend on it. By contrast, Puppy makes my academic "chores" an absolute breeze, and at far, far less than the smell of an oily rag.

Case in point - throwing out a trailerload of household garbage at our rural tip I saw a section trackside for electronic items to be minced for recycling. Saw two black boxes that had been left outdoors in the dust for a few days and possibly suffered some light rain. Offered $2 each for them, perhaps there was something I could salvage from them, before returning the carcasses to the dump, as likely warranted. Well. After cleaning out the dustbunnies and visually inspecting the PSU and mbo for cracks and electrical problems I plugged them into a restricted circuit in the shed. Both booted up fine OOTB, but had been tragically infected with Win7. Perhaps that was why they were thrown out, but these are i7 mbos with 6-12Gb DDR3 ram, USB3.0, and 1TB hdds that I immediately formatted. Blistering speed. Details are a bit hazy as this was a few months ago and I've been away for work, but intend to frugal-install a juicy 64bit Puppy on it later this ANZAC weekend. (Alas I will have to offload my beige-boxed x486 and P3 machines to make room for these new finds!) While I am chuffed at my windfall, I am frankly embarrassed at the *willful stupidity* of some (most?) in the mainstream who will not challenge the M$ and Apple doublespeak that the FOSS ethos equates with piracy and personal data insecurity. No-one mainstream questions the "sustainabiltity" of the upgrade paths plotted out for them by the commercial regimes. I question absolutely everything, and I use Puppy Linux because it supports - no, explicitly helps me - challenge the consumerist hamsterwheel. Anyone reading this will know that words cannot adequately express the feeling, but Thank You, Puppy Linux, you are better than chicken soup for the soul...

[quirkian2new]

hey, Puppyt,
congratulations to your ANZAC windfall ! Each upgrade new version of M$ Windows will just make redundant nearly 30% to 50% of the existing hardware of winfugees. haha !

[nic007]

The last user friendly version of Windows was XP. You are right, these neverending popups in Windows is a big no no. It's just terrible.