Banksy 3 - aka "The Personator"

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Sylvander
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#21 Post by Sylvander »

greengeek wrote:Are you able to post links to the versions of Wine and xfe packages that you found compatible?
Ummmm...
I used versions found in the b3 PPM.
i.e.
wine-1.5.15-i686
xfe-1.34-i686

These appear to work OK.

I also notice that Banksy3 works really FAST [once loaded]. :D
Of course, loading is slow, but not nearly so slow as the multi-session-DVD-RW I used formerly for banking.

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greengeek
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#22 Post by greengeek »

Hi Sylvander,

I had a look at the Wine package and it extracts to about a huge 125MB. Bigger than I expected. Given that bloat I am guessing your hardware has no trouble with a "fat" puppy. That being the case I have decided to use a slightly heavier version of Banksy3 as the base for the experimental Wine/Xfe puppy.

I will use the version that I have been using for a year or more - I call it b3max as it contains some significant extras that the original b3 did not have. One of these extras is peazip which I hope you may find useful as it allows encryption of files. I hope the extra size of this pup does not cause you problems.

I have grafted Wine and Xfe into it, and I have included the .wine config directory in the list of personalisations that are grabbed by the personator scripts. I have not included the Xfe config file, but please let me know if this is a problem, or if there are any other issues that impact on your usage.

Please be aware that this is an experimental version and I have only given it a quick test as I really don't have much experience with Wine. All I have done is to run the "wine clock" from the menu and it seems to be fine.

I call this version "b3maxWX"
The WX stands for "Wine / Xfe"

Here are the download links:
EDIT : Instead of downloading this version there is a newer version a couple of posts further down.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/d8kz6 ... eneric.iso
http://www.mediafire.com/download/09c7c ... so-md5.txt
EDIT : Instead of downloading this version there is a newer version a couple of posts further down.

I do have some questions for you:

1) Wine is about 125 meg. If this builtin size creates problems would it be ok to have a b3 version without Wine inbuilt and just load it from pet as necessary? I could still leave the personalisations that allow the Wine config to be grabbed at personalisation time. Hopefully the builtin size will not be a problem (although overall iso size does affect personalisation performance on low ram systems).
2) The PPM version of Wine asks for dependencies of Zenity (two versions for some reason) and mpg123. Did you add these dependencies when you loaded Wine - and do you consider them necessary for your usage of Wine? I have left them out so far as Wine seems to start ok without them.
3) When I run wine for the first time I get error messages about "Mono" and "Gecko" packages being missing. Do you see these same messages and are they a problem for you? It gave the choice of ignoring the problem or installing the packages from the web but I just ignored them.
4) Xfe starts up in the single pane mode. Any changes to that would probably require that the xfe config file be grabbed at personalisation time but I have not currently set that up. Please let me know how well it works for you. Are you ok with running it in default mode?

Thanks for any testing and feedback.

cheers!
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Sylvander
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#23 Post by Sylvander »

@ greengeek

1. "...I am guessing your hardware has no trouble with a "fat" puppy."
Correct.

2. "I hope the extra size of this pup does not cause you problems."
No problem, my desktop has 8GB RAM.

3. "I have not included the Xfe config file"
OUCH, that causes problems, there are configurations I normally make that aren't including in the personalizations.

4. " this is an experimental version and I have only given it a quick test as I really don't have much experience with Wine."
WINE seems to be working just fine.
I normally use the winefile command, and that's performing as it aught.
I'm able to use it to run the portable version of "Acerose Password Vault" that's held on a Flash Drive partition mounted using the pmounter command.

Re your questions to me:

5. "Wine is about 125 meg. If this builtin size creates problems...
No problems created.

6. " I have left them out so far as Wine seems to start ok without them."
No problem, WINE is working fine for me.

7. "When I run wine for the first time I get error messages about "Mono" and "Gecko" packages being missing. Do you see these same messages and are they a problem for you?"
Yes, but no problem.
I chose to install them, and WINE then worked just fine.
I already knew that it doesn't matter whether these are installed or not; WINE will work just fine regardless.

8. "Any changes to that would probably require that the xfe config file be grabbed at personalisation time but I have not currently set that up. Please let me know how well it works for you."
Xfe is working OK, but I'd rather have the personal config preferences applied.

9. "Are you ok with running it in default mode?"
No, this is not OK, could you include the necessary?
And thank you VERY MUCH for all you've done so far. :D
Banksy3 is FABULOUS.

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greengeek
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#24 Post by greengeek »

Hi Sylvander,

at the bottom of this post you will find download links for the new version (RC2) of b3maxWX. This has the added ability to grab the xfe config directory.

However, before you switch to that version I would be keen to take you through a quick tutorial that shows how you it is possible to manually solve the problem of the missing "xfe config" without waiting for a remaster. This may be valuable because it will show you the manual method I referred to in an earlier post - I think you may find this method useful at some time in the future so it may be worth going through this academic exercise just to get familiar with what can be achieved. (This method does not require any modification of the /root/isolator/1-b3distillor script that was daunting you before). It might look complex at first glance but I bet you find it easy to understand after you do it once:

1) Boot from the first version of b3maxWX (the one that lacks the ability to grab xfe config)

2) Start xfe and configure it the way you want (maybe dual panes or whatever...). Then close xfe and identify that a new hidden directory has been created - called /root/.config/xfe

3) Make any other personalisations you want - eg wifi connection etc. (You don't actually need to do this step for the sake of the tutorial but I just mention it so that the CD you create could have ALL of your normal personalisations if you want the whole nine yards)

4) Click on the script /root/isolator/1-b3distillor and let it do it's thing. It will create a new directory called /tmp/banksydistillor.
- Have a look inside that directory and open the directory called root.
- Click on the "eye" icon and you will see a hidden directory called .config
- Have a look inside that .config directory and look for a directory called "xfe". It should be missing. Just not there at all. This is because the old version of the distillor script has not asked for the xfe config file to be brought across.
- However - this is where the manual process becomes handy. You could now grab the fully configured xfe directory (mentioned in step 2 above) from your normal /root/.config folder and copy the contents into the distillor directory where it is missing.
ie: Manually copy /root/.config/xfe into /tmp/banksydistillor/root/.config

5) Once you have copied the xfe config directory click on the /root/isolator/2-b3compressor script and the distillor directory will be assembled into your new personalised sfs which will appear as /tmp/personalsettings_xxxx_banksy3.sfs
- This new personalised sfs WILL contain the xfe config - because you manually put it in there.
(so what we have done is use a manual method to overcome the limitations of the personator scripts)

You could now use this personalsettings sfs to replace a previous version (in a frugal installation...) or you could proceed to the next step which builds the full iso:

6) Click on the /root/isolator/3-b3isolator script and allow it to build the new iso which will appear in the /tmp folder.
Note that this new iso will contain the main b3maxWX sfs and also the corrected personalsettings sfs which contains the xfe config directory.
Unfortunately the old distillor script will still be part of the b3maxWX sfs, but at least you will have an iso that is personalised with your xfe config.

7) If you want to you can now click on the /root/isolator/4-cdcreator script and burn the iso straight to cd...

Sorry if this seems rather longwinded - it's easy for me as I have done it many times to overcome small defects that became obvious as I progressed through various iterations of banksy. I still find it useful for quirky personalisations when I don't have time to remaster the main b3max sfs scripts.

Anyway - here are the download links for the updated b3maxWX version:

EDIT : This b3maxWX version is really only of interest to Sylvander.
Other users may prefer a more generic version (without xfe and Wine) that captures ALL personalisations as available here: http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 307#899307


b3maxWX for Sylvanders original testing:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/da5vd ... ic_RC2.iso
http://www.mediafire.com/download/34xhk ... so-md5.txt

I hope we can get close to something that works well for your needs.
cheers!
.
Last edited by greengeek on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 18:06, edited 1 time in total.

Sylvander
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#25 Post by Sylvander »

@ greengeek

1. I'm well aware that text explanations of how to do stuff can look complex, and yet be quite simple to do.
I found your instructions quite simple to implement, although I'd never be able to memorize everything and carry them through without your text to guide me.

2. I followed your manual steps to make the new/personalized ISO [with Xfe config's included], and burn it to CD-RW disk.
That was successful.
When I used that new disk to boot into b3maxWX+ it booted just fine, and the Xfe config's were included. :D
I'm a happy old dog. :wink:
Thank you for all you've done.

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greengeek
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#26 Post by greengeek »

Hi Sylvander, you're welcome. Thanks for giving banksy a try - I'm glad its working ok for your needs. I do have a couple of caveats though - hope they're not a deal breaker:
1) b3 is based on the non-PAE version of Slacko 5.6 so will not reference the whole 8G of your RAM.
2) Linux seems to be suffering something of the fate that became of Microsoft - in that security holes are found, then supposedly plugged with ongoing updates (such as wget, bash, ssl, ssh etc etc). I do not feel able to maintain banksy in accordance with the latest and greatest of every security update. Partly that is because I may not know they exist, partly because I may not always know how to implement them, and partly because i do not always believe they are necessary.

There have been instances where a newly released patch has been found to be an even greater risk than the original version - so I prefer to stay off the update roundabout unless i perceive a really significant threat.

I also try to stay away from stuff like webRTC and teamviewer - I don't like remote control unless it's necessary for a specific short term purpose..

I understand your desire to maintain security so I thought I better mention these issues. Personally I feel reasonably secure as a result of the "readonly" nature and "non-persistence" of each banksy session - but that only minimises certain risks - it does not eliminate risk "within session".

I also listen to the caution that other Puppians have made of "do not use Puppy as a server accessible by internet". That is a whole other kettle of fish that needs a more cautious approach than Puppy in it's current form can offer. It is a topic beyond my current pay grade..

Finally - I have a collection of pets that I find useful when I need to extend banksy's abilities, so let me know if you find it lacking in any way - I may already have solutions. In particular if you find the old version of Firefox insufficient (I very seldom have issues with it) I recommend OscarTalks versions of Slimjet browser (the one compatible with Slackware 14.0 packages)

Thanks for the positive feedback. Be sure to let me know of any hitches and glitches please.
cheers!

Sylvander
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#27 Post by Sylvander »

greengeek wrote:Be sure to let me know of any hitches and glitches please.
Will do.

Sylvander
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#28 Post by Sylvander »

Hey greengeek....
I woke up this morning with an idea for Banksy.

I hope it isn't impossible, or stupid.

Here it is:
1. What if...
It were possible to have Banksy operate initially just like any other Puppy in regard to cutomizing, so that it would be real easy make ANY kind of personalizations.

2. And only then make the necessary changes [using a pet file?] to make it into a proper Banksy.

3. And then make the ISO and burn the CD.

4. And would it be possible to undo the Banks-fication [to make ANY further new customizations] and then re-do the Banksy-fication once more?

CRAZY? or NOT? :roll:

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#29 Post by greengeek »

Hi Sylvander,

I guess the first question is what constitutes a "proper Banksy"?

In my view there are two aims for Banksy:
1) Only capture the minimum personalisations that are desired - in order to minimise the risk of inadvertently (and permananently) capturing malware or capturing damage from poorly constructed software.
2) Utilise the personalisations in a readonly .sfs format so that their integrity is more robustly preserved than in the .2fs or .3fs savefile format and is not altered during a session.

If I were to find some way to incorporate your idea I would have to allow the user the opportunity to take the risk of capturing everything of their session - good or bad. In my opinion this is not necessarily wise for newbies - they don't understand the potential risks of loading any and every .pet and then permanently capturing the results (such as CUPS failure or duplicated and incompatible libraries etc).

However - I do see merit in giving the user the choice.

As an alternative have you considered the use of the "multisession CD" concept as the best way to capture snapshots of your modified system? I haven't used it but it appears to offer the option you want of preserving all session changes.

I will look at ways of offering the choices you desire - I am aware that Ted Dog (i think it was) and also mikeb had methods for saving all session changes as a readonly personal sfs so I will try to find their methods and see if they can be applied to Banksy.

Sylvander
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#30 Post by Sylvander »

greengeek wrote:...have you considered the use of the "multisession CD"
Yes indeed.
A multi-session-DVD+RW was the number-1 mehod I used [now number-2 = tahr-6.0-ce_pae, which is too big for purpose and too slow to load] until Banksy3 CD-RW became my number-1.

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#31 Post by greengeek »

So do you still wish to continue loading from CD? If so that makes loading much slower than from HDD. With banksy being built from read only sfs I generally take the risk of loading it from USB or HDD frugal to get better load speed.

Did you notice a longer load time when trialling the WX version? It is a fatter version and each extra MB takes a finite time to load. One of my concerns with the idea of building a personal sfs from all of the current system changes is the resulting increase in personal sfs size and increase in load time. Up to the user to evaluate the cost/benefit ratio i guess.

Sylvander
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#32 Post by Sylvander »

@ greengeek

1. "So do you still wish to continue loading from CD?"
Yes.

2. "If so that makes loading much slower than from HDD."
I'll accept that so as to get the increased security.

3. "Did you notice a longer load time when trialling the WX version?"
No.

4. "Up to the user to evaluate the cost/benefit ratio i guess."
Seems OK to me.

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#33 Post by greengeek »

@Sylvander - how do you normally handle /mnt/home? (banksy doesn't actually use /mnt/home at all).

I'm just thinking that someone who is used to their personal files being stored in /mnt/home may be confused by that location being discarded in any future expansion of the banksy personalisation routine. I wouldn't want someone to lose a heap of important data in the belief that a "full" personalisation script was grabbing anything and everything. The responsibility for saving personal data is left 100% in the hands of the user when using banksy and this would not change with expansion of the initial personalisation (except for whatever data the user decided to store in the /opt/b3user directory which is the personal cache retained across the personalisation process).

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#34 Post by greengeek »

Note to self - investigate "ram2sfs" from Ted dog

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#35 Post by Sylvander »

greengeek wrote:@Sylvander - how do you normally handle /mnt/home?
My Banksy3 doesn't have any /mnt/home, which is normally on partition sda5 because most of my other Puppies have their pupsave files on sda5.
Hence, if I want to access anything on sda5 within Banksy3, I would use the pmounter command and choose to mount sda5, and then would be able to access content at that location.

Similar action needed if I wanted to access ANYTHING anywhere [e.g. "Acerose Password Vault" (APV) located on my Flash Drive = sdb1].
I find such things to be EASY to do.

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#36 Post by greengeek »

Sylvander wrote: What if...
It were possible to have Banksy operate initially just like any other Puppy in regard to cutomizing, so that it would be real easy make ANY kind of personalizations
Hi Sylvander, it will take me some time to achieve all the things you mentioned (particularly the "un-Banksying" idea) but I have gone one step closer with the addition of some different personalisation scripts which offer the option of capturing all personalisations.

You have probably noticed from some other threads that capturing every system change can be tricky so there may be some issues i have not detected, but as far as I can tell this new script of mine works really well to allow the new version to capture all system changes, encapsulate them in a readonly sfs, create a new iso and then automatically burn it direct to optical media.

I booted from the generic version then added a bunch of pets and using the new script made myself an iso that was over 450MB and everything worked perfectly.

For this version I decided to revert to the original banksy3 - it does lack some of the extras that are in b3max but the smaller size means the user can add exacty what they want (and it was easier/quicker to handle the files during the upgrade process).

The "personator" functionality is just the same as it was before, but I have added the new "grab all" script via a desktop icon which I have called the "impersonator":
- the personator script is for grabbing a small critical subset of personalisations.
- the impersonator script is for grabbing all personalisations so that the new iso "impersonates" exactly what you were already using.

I call the new banksy "The Impersonator"
("b3imp" for short)

Download links here:

EDIT : original link deleted. Replaced by better version here:
http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewto ... 307#899307

This version does not have Wine and xfe installed but you should be able to add those exactly the same way you previously did. I am keen to know if it retains all the necessary stuff after you install all the goodies you need.
I will keep upgrading any issues I find but if you are able to test and find things that need fixing please let me know. Seems good so far.

Caveats:

- The "impersonator" script has been designed to do a "one time" grab of the personalisations - so it is necessary to boot the generic iso then add all desired changes and customisations in one session, then run the impersonator script. (It has not been tested for multiple "progressive" changes such as a savefile is intended for)

- The amount of RAM required to successfully complete the impersonator process is dependent on the amount of data that you add during the personalisation process. I think 1GB RAM would be the minimum, and my testing was on a 2GB machine.
.
Last edited by greengeek on Sun 17 Apr 2016, 18:00, edited 2 times in total.

Sylvander
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#37 Post by Sylvander »

WOW!
You are making wishes come true. :D

This I've got to try.
I'll be back ASAP having done the necessary.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Problem at 1st attempt:
1. Downloaded the new b3impgeneric_RC1.iso & b3impgeneric_RC1.iso-md5.txt, with no problem.

2. md5sum checked as OK.

3. Burned the new number-1 CD-RW OK.

4. Booted the new CD-RW OK.

5. Personalized the new b3impgeneric_RC1 OK.

6. Switched in the blank/new number-2 CD-RW disk.
Clicked on the impersonator link OK.
Program ran OK, but at some point during the proces I noticed down at bottom right that the "personal-storage-free-space" was down at the lowest setting and flashing red.
My desktop has 8GB of RAM, so that surprises me.
I guess only 4GB is being used, right?

7. The making of the personalized ISO completed; burn to disk completed OK.

8. Tried to save the new ISO file to my sda6 internal partition, but pmounter could not run, reporting that there wasn't enough memory to run.

9. Rebooted to the new number-2 CD-RW, but the CD wouldn't boot.
Instead: WinXP began to boot.
This only happens if there is no bootable optical disk in the drive.

10. Booted into Slacko to check out the problem CD-RW.
The disk had been blanked using Pburn prior to burning using the "impersonator".
Pburn showed it as "Closed".
I used Pburn to blank the number-2 disk yet again, and it showed as green/empty yet again.

11. I'll make a 2nd attempt ASAP.
Any suggestions as to what to look out for?

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#38 Post by greengeek »

Sounds like I may have got something set up incorrectly. Unfortunately I won't be able to test further today (stuck on android).

Any chance you could try the process again but making only a single small change (such as adding a text file into /root)?

I do have a large swap partition - I wonder if that makers a difference. I will do more testing as soon as I am able.

Sylvander
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#39 Post by Sylvander »

greengeek wrote:...try the process again but making only a single small change (such as adding a text file into /root)?
Done, and it worked OK.

List of small personalizations:
"quicksetup" settings.
Desktop wallpaper changed.
Made a small text file in /root.
Free space dropped from 4 to 3 rings.
Iso was made OK.
Disk burned OK, it booted OK.
Typing from it now.
Free space showing 4 rings once again.

Will now make 2nd attempt at the full personalizations.

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#40 Post by greengeek »

Try plugging in a USB stick formatted as "Linux swap". I just tried adding about 400MB of personalisations and the processing exceeded my 2GB RAM and flowed into swap. I think Slackos nonPAE kernel will only use 3GB of your RAM so swap becomes critical if you add too much data.

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