Languages in the world

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Antipodal · #21 Post by **Antipodal** » Sat 16 Apr 2016, 00:15

Last Monday 6502coder listed a number of obstacles that explain why many of us agree with what pelo said last Thursday

Pelo wrote:language is as real problem for Puppy's activities.

I believe 6502coder's words are quite reasonable and I would like to thank him for helping me to remember those obstacles.
I would also like to thank, Burn_IT and the other contributors to the thread for their point of view and convey special thanks to pelo because his original post pushed forward a subject that underlies most of the great problems humanity is currently facing and in which which we should all focus.

6502coder · #22 Post by **6502coder** » Sun 17 Apr 2016, 05:52

Well, I hope I have been realistic and not merely pessimistic. Achieving fluency in a foreign language is hard -- I have studied three and can't read an ordinary newspaper in any of them. On the other hand, I find a resource like the forums at WordReference.com to be invaluable for getting help on translation problems. It doesn't always work -- the other day I ran across a thread asking for help translating a passage dealing with architecture: it got no responses because apparently there just weren't any English-speaking forum members who had enough expertise in architecture to make heads or tails of the specialized jargon being used.

But maybe something like a list of commonly-used terms in Puppy Linux, with definitions in various languages contributed by forum members, would be a good place to make a start.

Pelo · #23 Post by **Pelo** » Sun 17 Apr 2016, 12:03

Thanks to everybody about that visit to communication between people not speaking the same language. French, Spanish, and Russian are not so much concerned because somebody knowing both English and Linux languages translates.Call them 'the ambassadors' in specific forums.
I read in 'simplicity' site they are three persons, one does not even have a computer. He is the tester. I completely agree with that choice. Puppy must be easy to understand.
Subliminal message : be kind with us please... Imagine if all was in Chinese, even the terminal..

kb8amz · #24 Post by **kb8amz** » Wed 20 Apr 2016, 10:40

English [US] is my spoken language but Morse Code is the language I speak Internationally in my hobby.

Antipodal · #25 Post by **Antipodal** » Thu 28 Apr 2016, 02:41

6502coder wrote:But maybe something like a list of commonly-used terms in Puppy Linux, with definitions in various languages contributed by forum members, would be a good place to make a start.

I support all the ideas that contribute to a better understanding among human beings.

Pelo · #26 Post by **Pelo** » Wed 11 May 2016, 09:52

When trying to translate often dictionaries translations to english are quite good ( but you can judge the quality only if yourself has a good level)
But english to (french) are awful !
For non speaking english people, using Puppy not translated is quite impossible. As said above, when you got a Linux word each ten words, newbies will loose tenacity.
For Help, i will give here links to european forums about Puppy, for newbies needing some help.
Russia, Polski, Hungary, italy have one.
French, spanish and germans have a section in the Murga forum, they are Lucky, and when a developer is here too help, c'est du pur bonheur !

gcmartin · #27 Post by **gcmartin** » Mon 16 May 2016, 14:43

Language; a defining period of pre to post mankind? (I, personally, am not so sure that it can be called a "defining moment" as all organism have some sort of "language".)

Is mankind on the doorstep of yet another defining moment: See this as it describes such.

Wognath · #28 Post by **Wognath** » Mon 16 May 2016, 18:29

This reminded me of a bitter post last year by a one-time visitor:

Necesitamos que PUPPY sea más INTERNACIONAL, que no monopolice todo el espacio el inglés, que es el TERCER IDIOMA a nivel mundial, y sin embargo el SEGUNDO ES EL ESPAÑOL, y no sale mencionado en nigún lugar en la página principal, ni siquiera un link a "LANGUAGE" o nada así.

Es algo realmente necesario en la primera página. A gente que no es nativa inglesa nos desanima muchísimo ver que entras a una comunidad en la que todo todo todo es inglés, y no se mencionan otras lenguas en la pantalla principal ni siquiera por casualidad.

http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=99938]

A prominent link on puppylinux.org main page to the "Homepage by Language" table on the wiki's home page would be hospitable.

Pelo · #29 Post by **Pelo** » Tue 17 May 2016, 02:08

What is some fun, or ire, is if you list a spanish or a french puplet in Puppy derivative section, the first reaction is 'we can't use it, it's not translated' !
they don't imagine a second that each day we translate from english to our native language. Spanish, turkisk, chinese are all day long translating;.
That is the reason why only high level passengers (VIP) use Puppy, when not from UK ! Or emigrated from.
Spanish Puppies have the chance to be used in south-america (Cuba excepted). French ones are not used once, in overseas french speaking countries.
That does not mean that non english spoken (barbarians) puppies to be the best

come on, come on, war is declared

"Am I wrong? "Most French 1st language people also speak other languages fluently." Unlike US citizens where 92% only speak US English. Reason: Foreign language has not be a student requirement in 3 decades (primary/secondary/collegiate levels)." Gcmartin if the 8% only tried to speak the foreign language they learnt at school, it would be a nice step forward..

Burn_IT · #30 Post by **Burn_IT** » Tue 17 May 2016, 10:56

As I have said before, I am quite happy to read technical stuff in French or German and get 80% of the meaning, but any reply in those languages would probably be either meaningless or very funny.

Google translate can be useful converting to your natural language from a foreign one, when mistranslates will be obvious, but should be avoided the other way round.

What is the famous one?? "My Hovercraft is full of Eels!"

Pelo · #31 Post by **Pelo** » Tue 17 May 2016, 23:55

Burn it, i fully agree with you. Google translation are an help, but you need to have language knowledge to improve google translations.
However each foreigner trying to speak french will get all our friendliness, and all the help we can give him. Perhaps we shall have a smile, but don't worry about that..
That is the same for US foreigners on holidays in France... Some don't even say 'bonjour', but 'hello'

Burn_IT · #32 Post by **Burn_IT** » Wed 18 May 2016, 13:47

I remember well when I was on a school exchange holiday in France.
I caused some hilarity by asking for:
Oeuf de la coq!!

Pelo · #33 Post by **Pelo** » Tue 05 Jul 2016, 10:28

Oueuf de la coq

Lol !
Behind this , english trying to speak french will immediatly get 'bon accueil'.
Wiil be very welcome.. My colleagues in french forum are translating weathers reports.
As on aircraft, icons are the solution, no translation needed. (like road panels) That is the way to go, in my opinion.

Pelo · #34 Post by **Pelo** » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 16:26

catalan, breton.. some demands in the air..
But if keyboard does not exist, is it worth the pain to translate Puppy Linux ? That is question, not an opinion.

Burn_IT · #35 Post by **Burn_IT** » Sun 11 Sep 2016, 21:07

It makes sense for reading, but obviously not for writing.
Which is a pity really because I have always found it easier to read/hear a foreign language than to write or speak it.

Pelo · #36 Post by **Pelo** » Thu 29 Sep 2016, 19:32

Burn it, you write a fluent English.. For me the forum is the only place where i can write English. But i would not complain about that.

However, if some of you like french, they can post in forum francophone, in french of course, ils seront bienvenus.and helped, at least for french speaking. Try a french Puppy would be a first step

Burn_IT · #37 Post by **Burn_IT** » Thu 29 Sep 2016, 21:10

Burn it, you write a fluent English.

I hope so!! I was born and bred in the very heart of England, even though the name doesn't sound like it.
Ashby-de-la-Zouch

Sailor Enceladus · #38 Post by **Sailor Enceladus** » Thu 29 Sep 2016, 22:03

Pelo wrote:However, if some of you like french, they can post in forum francophone, in french of course, ils seront bienvenus.and helped, at least for french speaking. Try a french Puppy would be a first step

Which french Puppy iso do you recommend trying first Pelo?

jlst · #39 Post by **jlst** » Thu 29 Sep 2016, 23:05

Hmm French sounds awkward to me... with discussios about puppy i also began to write in english more and more, it was just very esporadic before.. . i usually just reuse words i read even when i'm not fully aware of their meaning, so reading is my primary source of learning. i sometimes listen to podcasts, but this can be damaging to my brain, as it tries too hard to understand even when i'm not paying much attention. after an hour i fall asleep. however watching english dubbed vids is easier, and it usually enhances the experience as i'm bored very easily and it adds another layer to pay attention... when they say "don't tell you forgot who does the punishing here.. you should know that.. Andrew i want you to tell everyone just one more time, the rules of the north cell... In the north cell only you Oscar have the power of punish"

Pelo · #40 Post by **Pelo** » Fri 30 Sep 2016, 04:58

Sailor Enceladus , as beginner, the first famous one was Toutou Linux 4.3.1. It was the only one, now are are several.
Why does Puppy help you learning a language (not only French) ? Because icons are like help for babies. Instead of fruits or animals, they are applications, or places used on the computer.
The Linuxian pupil is interested a lot, and huge progress are done the first week.
I run one Puppy in Chinese (Macis). Sure sometimes, even wwwith icons, it's not easy.
The same for hungarian
But really for hungarian, i now know a lot of words. For chinese ? No, really no

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