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 Forum index » Taking the Puppy out for a walk » Announcements
boycott systemd
Moderators: Flash, Ian, JohnMurga
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anikin

Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 1020
PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov 2015, 07:48    Post subject:  
greengeek,

With iguleder's explanation above, I see it a bit differently. They (the gatekeepers) didn't listen. It was iguleder, who made the change. My opinion was heard by iguleder, he disabled icanhazip in his Librepup fork of Woof-CE, using his *authority* made a commit to the master branch (initially, I was unsure of this) and the change propagated to the whole project. Technically it got rammed through, it didn't come as a result of a transparent discussion. Unfortunately you and I lack that power and authority to make changes/commits to git/Woof-CE. If something in our view is wrong with Puppy, we can only voice our opinion and nag the devs to the best of our abilities. I sincerely tried my best, show respect, restraint and avoid escalation whenever possible. Others would have done a better job, I'm sure, but there wasn't much competition, as you know. Maybe, I should have kept quiet ... disable the damn thing in every new pup and be happy. Why should I care about others, about noobs and their unwashed, little brothers and sisters?
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bark_bark_bark

Joined: 05 Jun 2012
Posts: 1935
Location: Wisconsin USA
PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov 2015, 09:03    Post subject:  
greengeek wrote:
anikin wrote:
[*icanhazip is indefensible* - I warned both of you a long time ago, you didn't listen.
Actually, they did listen. It took time, but the end result is what you would have wanted (unless I am mistaken). The structure of woof is flexible and publicly available for others to have direct input into without waiting for "devs"to do their thing. (unless I am mistaken).

Decisions have to be made or else nothing progresses - this forum offers an opportunity for those who "have an opinion" to alter the perspective of "those who develop". That opportunity is very valuable but it does not constitute a "directive".

I don't think we should be too critical of devs when we have an equal opportunity to do what they do. Our opinion remains just an opinion unless we take action ourselves.


anikin is like one of those people that just complain, without really providing any solutions.
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cimarron


Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 293
PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov 2015, 09:31    Post subject:  
Is there another place this discussion could happen instead of the systemd thread?
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L18L


Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 3493
Location: www.eussenheim.de/
PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov 2015, 09:42    Post subject:  
cimarron wrote:
Is there another place this discussion could happen instead of the systemd thread?

Yes it is, see http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?p=873937#873937 Cool
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gcmartin

Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 6730
Location: Earth
PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov 2015, 10:11    Post subject:  
Wrong place. Moving my post to WOOFCE thread.
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greengeek


Joined: 20 Jul 2010
Posts: 5834
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande
PostPosted: Mon 23 Nov 2015, 14:25    Post subject:  
bark_bark_bark wrote:
.... is like one of those people that just complain, without really providing any solutions.
I think his complaints were fair, and others shared concerns too, but I just don't think we should insult devs for choices we don't like.

It's a bit like the arguments over systemd - the code branches off in whatever direction is determined by the lead devs, and the user either has to accept it or create a new direction and fork it for themselves. If the devs are paid staff then it is fair to get upset about their choices. Given that they are not paid they have to have some leeway to make decisions that may be unpopular.

People can boycott systemd if they choose to do so. And they can boycott Puppy too. Or reshape it exactly how they want it. If we want to avoid being led by the nose (like systemd followers) we have to upskill to ensure that we ourselves are capable of creating and maintaining those alternatives.

The fact that BK posted about the use of eudev as a systemd alternative shows that there is a future without systemd. I am sure the best way to implement that will be up for discussion and probably vary from pup to pup.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6735
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sat 20 Feb 2016, 18:00    Post subject:  
A conference by a system administrator interrupted by Lennart Poettering .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfKGXQnxIvE&list=PLV5TRjrpiwATav0Dlhd_GRjc2ZRuV26kR
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s243a

Joined: 02 Sep 2014
Posts: 2626
PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb 2016, 19:04    Post subject:  
James C wrote:
A conference by a system administrator interrupted by Lennart Poettering .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfKGXQnxIvE&list=PLV5TRjrpiwATav0Dlhd_GRjc2ZRuV26kR


I enjoyed the video.Here is another amusing video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WipM3SAYqK4
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rufwoof


Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 3725
PostPosted: Sun 21 Feb 2016, 20:37    Post subject:  
Just a observation as I know next to nothing about systemd and alternatives. As a end-user however I switched over from Tahr to DebianDog Jessie a month or so ago and initially was wasn't using the systemd type boot, but after having tried it a couple of weeks back I've since stayed with it as it boots/shuts-down quicker and generally seems to run better.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6735
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun 13 Mar 2016, 20:55    Post subject:  
Still running Devuan Jessie......

Code:
root@nosystemd:/home/james# inxi -Fxx
System:    Host: nosystemd Kernel: 3.16.0-4-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 4.8.4)
           Desktop: N/A dm: lightdm Distro: Devuan GNU/Linux 1
Machine:   Mobo: ASRock model: N68-S UCC
           Bios: American Megatrends v: P1.70 date: 03/03/2011
CPU:       Dual core AMD Athlon 64 X2 5200+ (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB
           flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 svm) bmips: 10848
           Clock Speeds: 1: 2712 MHz 2: 2712 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA GT218 [GeForce 210] bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:0a65
           Display Server: X.org 1.16.4 drivers: nouveau (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           tty size: 80x24 Advanced Data: N/A for root
Audio:     Card-1 NVIDIA MCP61 High Definition Audio
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:05.0 chip-ID: 10de:03f0
           Card-2 NVIDIA High Definition Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 02:00.1 chip-ID: 10de:0be3
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k3.16.0-4-amd64
Network:   Card: NVIDIA MCP61 Ethernet
           driver: forcedeth port: d480 bus-ID: 00:07.0 chip-ID: 10de:03ef
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full
           mac: 00:25:22:61:55:fc
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 1250.3GB (0.2% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: WDC_WD10EZEX size: 1000.2GB serial: WD-WCC1S6306549 temp: 27C
           ID-2: /dev/sdb model: ST3250318AS size: 250.1GB serial: 9VMALT2B temp: 29C
Partition: ID-1: / size: 49G used: 2.7G (6%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sda15
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 35.0C mobo: N/A gpu: 34.0
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 143 Uptime: 16 min Memory: 288.3/3963.5MB
           Init: SysVinit v: 2.88 runlevel: 2 default: 2 Gcc sys: 4.9.2
           Client: Shell (bash 4.3.301 running in xfce4-terminal) inxi: 2.1.28
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cimarron


Joined: 30 May 2013
Posts: 293
PostPosted: Sun 10 Apr 2016, 11:18    Post subject:  
I just found Manjaro-OpenRC which is the easiest and best systemd-free distro I've seen so far. James C posted about it recently, but I got to it via http://systemd-free.org/

Really nice looking and fast. The Xfce desktop uses only 150M RAM (less for the Openbox desktop) on my old P4 laptop. Based on Arch, which I never tried before, but am very impressed with now. Rolling release, so no major upgrades and always up to date. The "stable" version of Manjaro is just two weeks behind cutting-edge Arch. I found Palemoon, Avidemux, and Skype in the repository, which are all unavailable in Debian repositories. And no problem running as root (except for the warnings...) Very well done distro.

Manjaro-OpenRC available here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/manjaro-openrc/

Feature comparison with systemd: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems
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Last edited by cimarron on Wed 13 Apr 2016, 16:49; edited 1 time in total
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l0wt3ch

Joined: 23 Apr 2014
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Wed 13 Apr 2016, 10:13    Post subject:  
Defying systemd - or how to do wrong things the right way - Klaus Knopper
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6735
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun 01 May 2016, 01:46    Post subject: Devuan Beta release  
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160429.113115.144766f0.en.html

Quote:

As promised two years ago with the first declaration of Exodus from
Debian, today we can proudly state: we do not go gentle into that good
night.

Now has come the time to announce the Beta release of Devuan.

Debian GNU+Linux is a fork of Debian without systemd, on its way to
become much more than that. This Beta release marks an important
milestone towards the sustainability and the continuation of Devuan as
an universal base distribution.

Today Devuan Jessie provides continuity as a safe upgrade path from
Debian Wheezy and a flawless switch from Debian Jessie avoiding most
of the problems introduced by systemd.
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6735
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun 01 May 2016, 22:25    Post subject: Re: Devuan Beta release  
James C wrote:
https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20160429.113115.144766f0.en.html

Quote:

As promised two years ago with the first declaration of Exodus from
Debian, today we can proudly state: we do not go gentle into that good
night.

Now has come the time to announce the Beta release of Devuan.

Debian GNU+Linux is a fork of Debian without systemd, on its way to
become much more than that. This Beta release marks an important
milestone towards the sustainability and the continuation of Devuan as
an universal base distribution.

Today Devuan Jessie provides continuity as a safe upgrade path from
Debian Wheezy and a flawless switch from Debian Jessie avoiding most
of the problems introduced by systemd.



Fresh install.

https://devuan.org/

Code:
james@devuan:~$ inxi -Fxx
System:    Host: devuan Kernel: 3.16.0-4-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit gcc: 4.8.4)
           Desktop: N/A dm: slim Distro: Devuan GNU/Linux 1
Machine:   Mobo: ASUSTeK model: M5A97 LE R2.0 v: Rev 1.xx
           Bios: American Megatrends v: 2601 date: 03/24/2015
CPU:       Hexa core AMD FX-6300 Six-Core (-MCP-) cache: 12288 KB
           flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 sse4a ssse3 svm) bmips: 42142
           Clock Speeds: 1: 1400 MHz 2: 1400 MHz 3: 1400 MHz 4: 1400 MHz
           5: 1400 MHz 6: 1400 MHz
Graphics:  Card: NVIDIA GT218 [GeForce 210] bus-ID: 01:00.0 chip-ID: 10de:0a65
           Display Server: X.Org 1.16.4 drivers: nouveau (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           Resolution: 1440x900@59.89hz
           GLX Renderer: Gallium 0.4 on NVA8
           GLX Version: 3.0 Mesa 10.3.2 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card-1 NVIDIA High Definition Audio Controller
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 01:00.1 chip-ID: 10de:0be3
           Card-2 Advanced Micro Devices [AMD/ATI] SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA)
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:14.2 chip-ID: 1002:4383
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k3.16.0-4-amd64
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller
           driver: r8169 v: 2.3LK-NAPI port: d000
           bus-ID: 02:00.0 chip-ID: 10ec:8168
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full
           mac: 1c:87:2c:5a:bb:e2
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 1120.2GB (0.2% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: KINGSTON_SV300S3 size: 120.0GB serial: 50026B7256076A16
           ID-2: /dev/sdb model: WDC_WD10EZEX size: 1000.2GB serial: WD-WCC3F6XAKRLY
Partition: ID-1: / size: 34G used: 2.6G (8%) fs: ext4 dev: /dev/sdb9
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 16.8C mobo: N/A gpu: 35.0
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 155 Uptime: 31 min Memory: 428.9/15987.9MB
           Init: SysVinit v: N/A runlevel: 2 default: 2 Gcc sys: N/A
           Client: Shell (bash 4.3.301 running in xfce4-terminal) inxi: 2.1.28
james@devuan:~$
Devuan 1.0 Beta.jpg
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James C


Joined: 26 Mar 2009
Posts: 6735
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Thu 05 May 2016, 02:06    Post subject:  
.
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