Xenialpup64 CE 7.5 / 25 Nov 2017

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Billtoo
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Joined: Tue 07 Apr 2009, 13:47
Location: Ontario Canada

xenialpup64

#21 Post by Billtoo »

Manual frugal install to a usb-3.0 hard drive, pc is a hp desktop.

video-info-glx 1.5.3 Fri 1 Jul 2016 on xenialpup64 7.0.7 Linux 4.6.3 x86_64
2.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Xeon E3-1200 v2/3rd Gen Core processor Graphics Controller (rev 09)
oem: Intel(R) Sandybridge/Ivybridge Graphics Chipset Accelerated VGA BIOS
product: Intel(R) Sandybridge/Ivybridge Graphics Controller Hardware Version 0.0

X Server: Xorg Driver: intel
X.Org version: 1.18.3
dimensions: 3200x900 pixels (846x237 millimeters)
depth of root window: 24 planes

direct rendering: Yes
server glx vendor string: SGI
server glx version string: 1.4
OpenGL vendor string: Intel Open Source Technology Center
OpenGL renderer string: Mesa DRI Intel(R) Ivybridge Desktop
OpenGL core profile version string: 3.3 (Core Profile) Mesa 11.2.0

Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3550 CPU @ 3.30GHz
Core 0: @1600 1: @1600 2: @1800 3: @1700 MHz

Installed bugfix.
Installed applications with PPM.
Updated Smplayer/Smtube,added Audacious-3.7.2
Movie DVDs don't play properly with VLC, (jerky), they play properly
with Smplayer.

Vlc plays movie DVDs fine on my lenovo desktop which has the
proprietary Nvidia driver installed.

I installed a custom cursor with JWMDesk Manager, it's much easier to see now.
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radky
Posts: 977
Joined: Mon 03 May 2010, 03:13

#22 Post by radky »

Thanks to nilsonmorales for the nice oranchelo-pup and Sarai icon themes in xenialpup64. :)

One small issue: It seems the oranchelo-pup and Sarai icons do not display in the JWM menu of xenialpup64 (JWM 2.3.5). At least, not on my PC with integrated Intel video and vesa driver.

The included icons have png extensions but are mostly svg images. However, they will show in the menu of xenialpup64 after renaming the files without the '48' and changing the extension from png to svg.

For example: rename configuration48.png to configuration.svg

At least three menu icons in the Sarai theme are actually png images (folder48.png, home48.png and pc48.png). Possibly, they may require replacement with actual svg images for use in xenialpup64?

Thanks
[color=blue][b][url=http://www.smokey01.com/radky/PupMates.html]PupMates[/url][/b][/color]

oui

Re: xenialpup64

#23 Post by oui »

666philb wrote: this is the first stable-ish 64bit build. it's pretty huge though at nearly 300mb!
as I did explain it here, I don't see some real profit to install a lot of app's being not usual for the users...

what we urgently need in 64 bit are dotpets and dotsfs and not a lot of preinstalled software what are killing our time un-installing them because we have different needs...

a smart ISO without ballast would be better than an ISO with changes compared to old Puppy's. Palemoon for example did never become the new Puppy browser. The story is the same as opera bowser in the past. divers people did try to impose it to the community, the newest ISO of BK continue to include Seamonkey and I am happy on that (I would prefer Xombrero as it is more secure and works as good as Firefox, Seamonkey or Palemoon and is smarter! What? You find it not so smart at all, or not working well: Look pls at SliTaz, also with 64 bit kernel, and look how Xombrero looks after the second start!)

I don't like geany at all because you can't open two instances of the same doc (I am working on terrible long doc's: you absolutely need on them to have the view on two or more different parts of the same doc. bluefish can divide the view on the doc internal and, over this, allow more than one instance! why geany as standard it is not really better than leafpad?). I don't like abiword at all as the exchange of doc's with parents, friends and foreign person's are very difficult!

Why include those app's not really polyvalent, more, perhaps more a difficulty for the user as an help? since a very long time uses Puppy a format more to add / exchange app's, the dotsfs!

I propose you to create a list of 64 bit app's (or multi-architecture ones ready to use in 64 bit like XVidCap32 ready to use in 64 bit as it is not available any more in 64 bit) as a reference for all...

kind regards

Sailor Enceladus
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Joined: Mon 22 Feb 2016, 19:43

Re: xenialpup64

#24 Post by Sailor Enceladus »

oui wrote:I don't like geany at all because you can't open two instances of the same doc (I am working on terrible long doc's: you absolutely need on them to have the view on two or more different parts of the same doc. bluefish can divide the view on the doc internal and, over this, allow more than one instance! why geany as standard it is not really better than leafpad?). I don't like abiword at all as the exchange of doc's with parents, friends and foreign person's are very difficult!
I agree, I just make leafpad the default for everything (it even has line numbers in Options). Geany also has this strange strategy of putting the error messages behind the window when you do a Find so it looks like the program is frozen/unusable until you minimize it and find the stray window. Never tried Xombrero, will check it out. :)

jlst

#25 Post by jlst »

I love geany, setting it as the default text editor was one of the right choices, whether i'm editing a shell script, a C/C++ file, config files, etc.. it just displays the right stuff.

I LOVE GEANY

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Puppus Dogfellow
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mirror for xenialpup64

#26 Post by Puppus Dogfellow »

mirror/thanks again for your work, 666philb!
_______________________
Sailor Enceladus wrote:
oui wrote:I don't like geany at all because you can't open two instances of the same doc (I am working on terrible long doc's: you absolutely need on them to have the view on two or more different parts of the same doc. bluefish can divide the view on the doc internal and, over this, allow more than one instance! why geany as standard it is not really better than leafpad?). I don't like abiword at all as the exchange of doc's with parents, friends and foreign person's are very difficult!
I agree, I just make leafpad the default for everything (it even has line numbers in Options). Geany also has this strange strategy of putting the error messages behind the window when you do a Find so it looks like the program is frozen/unusable until you minimize it and find the stray window.

Never tried Xombrero, will check it out. :)
geany -i will open a new instance of geany (i've got geany and geany -i on my root1menu--you can open as many instances as you like) and window split is almost always a built-in plug-in, though you may have to enable it (check the tools menu--not on xenial64 at the moment, but from what i've seen, what i just wrote holds true for all geany-carrying 32 and 64bit pups).

hth



shot of geany opening two instances of the same document and splitting the view in each instance:
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Sailor Enceladus
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#27 Post by Sailor Enceladus »

jlst wrote:I love geany, setting it as the default text editor was one of the right choices, whether i'm editing a shell script, a C/C++ file, config files, etc.. it just displays the right stuff.

I LOVE GEANY
Yeah, but the bugs.... THE BUGS

jlst

#28 Post by jlst »

I agree that VLC is not the best choice, but geany is. SMPlayer + mpv/mplayer is probably the way to go if we're using QT.

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666philb
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Location: wales ... by the sea

#29 Post by 666philb »

geany does have the split window plugin ... look in tools on the menu bar. the 'paste it ' plugin will also be added. I'll have a look at bluefish and see how it compares, but i do like geany and use it a lot.

xombrero is a browser that most people will hate :)
palemoon covers a lot of bases ... size & functionality wise... the only other valid option would be a chrome based browser with the widevine plugin. this would add extra size buy also extra functionality like Amazon video.

mplayer v vlc ... I'm really hesitant to go back to mplayer as i always end up with audio video sync problems however powerful the computer.

as it's early days for xenialpup64 for the next build I'll add some of these alternative options to see what people think and see how it works myself. xenialpup32bit will be sticking to its defaults though as it's nearer release.
Bionicpup64 built with bionic beaver packages http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=114311
Xenialpup64, built with xenial xerus packages http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107331

Pelo

about included apps in Puppy.

#30 Post by Pelo »

about included apps in Puppy. Look what percentage of the distro occupied. It's no worth pain removing them as default. Remove built-in is easier for an old user fond of Linux than for a newbie to install. (oui msg) Puppy is a ready for use OS, for most of people. Professionnal apps will be loaded as SFS (Typists, photographs, cineasts,)
Geeks are eveywhere, the want a Pupppy for they own needs (experiments, often destructive :twisted: )
"mplayer v vlc ... I'm really hesitant to go back to mplayer" don't hesitate. Live was easier with Mplayer, lot of apps need it.
We need fun too, as Puppy passengers.
VLC can be loaded as SFS.
Geany is bigger than Mplayer Geeks prefer Geany than mPlayer, for their fun :!:
What about DVDs ? Slacko and tarhpup (Xenialpup) are unable to read chapters. Our children still use DVDs, at night.. DVDs and CDs are still nice gifts. Click with the mouse on the choosen chapter is Useless. Don't ask our children to type in terminal, i english, some Linux parameters. Unless Puppy Linux is a pet at home for old children, around fifty or sixty years old, playing or trying to be programers, in the cellar (while his wife, fond of mechanics,is dismantling the car in the garage).
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James C
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Location: Kentucky

#31 Post by James C »

666philb wrote:geany does have the split window plugin ... look in tools on the menu bar. the 'paste it ' plugin will also be added. I'll have a look at bluefish and see how it compares, but i do like geany and use it a lot.

xombrero is a browser that most people will hate :)
palemoon covers a lot of bases ... size & functionality wise... the only other valid option would be a chrome based browser with the widevine plugin. this would add extra size buy also extra functionality like Amazon video.

mplayer v vlc ... I'm really hesitant to go back to mplayer as i always end up with audio video sync problems however powerful the computer.

as it's early days for xenialpup64 for the next build I'll add some of these alternative options to see what people think and see how it works myself. xenialpup32bit will be sticking to its defaults though as it's nearer release.

For what its worth, I vote for Palemoon,Geany and VLC. :)

oui

#32 Post by oui »

Hi

I can understand that each one has the right to find this or that (geany, palemoon, vlc, abiword etc., this to name only the last app's appearing in the user answers) better for him... it is the little difference making working at PC more ... or less effective. ok!

but reallity is:

puppy 64 bit becomes an ISO being just under 300 MB in alpha (and perhaps more in stabil?)...

and some users have after that to spend and loose a lot of time to remove those absolutely not needing apps to re-install some traditionally also puppy typical app's like mplayer or seamonkey...

it is nonsens to impose some software excepted if they are really some under the most tiny ones (leafpad, didiwiki, jwm, mhwaveedit, ayttm, mtpaint etc.: they are under the most tiny app's available each as binary for 32 as well as for 64 bit at the official depositories of Ubuntu)!

alone because of the size of the ISO we make that a lot of users of old hardware can't have some interest any more for our puppy' s (distrowatch ranking...)

pls use dotsfs for all other goodies that you will use! what is more simple?

pls install an adult and not a baby remastering app (LazY remaster: you can easily adapt all file names, select or not to includes the load sfs modules, if you want or not split the main sfs etc)! start one time with you options palemoon/seamonkey/firefox/chrome geany/bluefish/nothing_more vlc/mplayer/xine/etc ayttm/skype/or_one_oft_the_million_other). if you are experimented with puppy you have 20..30 minutes after the first download of the alpha a complete remastered Puppy fully adapted to YOUR needs!

impose app's is silly dilly and contraproductive...

last comment to the alpha:

quitting puppy as to offer the default value "NO" save file and not save file "YES": it is a great ruthlessness of our developers, about all developers, to impose the save file! users playing with puppy and not interesting to save somewhat for example made under that alpha version have to change the default EACH reboot (users using the save system have to to that ONLY ONCE!) else if they do 100 reboot with the trial system! it is not serious really!

kind regards


PS: the first start of that version was bad - no text under the icones, no text in the menu, no text in the little message windows... I did already comment that error for the 32 bit version, and people did only laugh... but it is yet in the next :roll: because not taking in consideration in the 32 bit version... my solution:

- exit jwm (if you can! it is not easy without texts for newbies...)
- restart jwm with

Code: Select all

xwin jwm

in command line

- remaster (you have so or so to remaster to remove things like palemoon etc.!)

the problem seems to be definitively eliminated after that :wink:

LateAdopter
Posts: 361
Joined: Fri 27 May 2011, 17:21
Location: Reading UK

#33 Post by LateAdopter »

Hello 666philb

A suggestion for your DOTconfig:

CONFIG_X86_MSR=y (currently =m)

The reason is that MSR is the intended method for Intel PSTATE to control processors with hardware power management. Sandybridge onwards, I think. PSTATE will fall back to alternative methods if MSR is not available.
I have not previously checked whether it mattered, because I had to build kernels for my Braswell N3150 and they had it =y. I have now compared xenialpup64 with your 4.6.3 kernel and with my 4.4.4 kernel that I have been using with tahrpup64.

Testing my worst case test video on MPV with YADIF 2x in software.
With your kernel it clocks up to about 1970MHz, not maximum turbo, and drops 68 frames in 5 minutes, including a couple of noticeable skips.
With my 4.4.4 kernel it clocks up to 2070MHz and drops 26 frames with no skips.

The clock speeds were measured with turbostat.

EDIT:
For my kernels I used the fatdog 3.18.7 kernel DOTconfig with the MSR=y change. It did have some other Intel related differences from other Puppy kernels at the time, but I don't think they were significant..

EDIT 2
It looks like it's a kernel 4.6 regression. I just built 4.6.3 using the same DOTconfig as for 4.4.4 and it performs the same as your 4.6.3. So maybe MSR doesn't matter after all.

oui

#34 Post by oui »

James C wrote:For what its worth, I vote for Palemoon,Geany and VLC. :)
why are you so terribly enemy of dotsfs packages being better to preserve the freedom of users?

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666philb
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#35 Post by 666philb »

oui...

if i made xenial how you're asking, it would have no apps at all :)
Bionicpup64 built with bionic beaver packages http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=114311
Xenialpup64, built with xenial xerus packages http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=107331

oui

#36 Post by oui »

dear 666philb

i am also a SliTaz fan as long as SliTaz exists (it is only a bit, but a bit younger as Puppy so I am not SliTaz fan so long as I am Puppy fan ...).

the actual SliTaz base since Aleksej is the new developper (on LFS!)

is exactly that :idea:

and?

SliTaz 64 bit (for 32 bit apps) is only about 50 MB thin

with a full operable 64 bit kernel...

included is only a full operable SliTaz own internet browser (TazWeb) AND midori. The upgrade to Xombrero (marvoulous Xombrero version, pls, try it but you must install to see the 2d and 3thd restart of Xombrero!) costs only a few bytes more, and ALL usual SliTaz tools are of course present (and for this reason TazWeb: the most tools are integrated in a browser management, TazPanel, one of the most modern managements of Linux!)

sfs-load is an important tool of Puppy since years, and, if, of course, present, no need more (excepted, or course, a good library of dotsfs!) :roll: !

kind regards

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bigpup
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#37 Post by bigpup »

Some of what you suggest was tried with Lucid Puppy.
Mainly offered with no real web browser and you had to download and install from a list of browsers, to have a good working one.
It was a mixed discussion on who did and did not like it.

For most people, they liked the idea of having a complete, program full, operating system.
Install it to a USB flash, CD/DVD, Hard drive, whatever and it had everything you needed.

I can remember installing Windows 7 :evil: :twisted: and it taking me several hours to get the drivers, support files, and programs I needed for just the hardware I had.
Just what do they put in 3GB plus of that thing :shock:

Install Puppy and it is generally all there. Whatever you want to do.
Is only 300mb or less of space. Too much? NO!!

I am sure, like Tahrpup, this version of Puppy will have Quickpet.
That will give you quick access to some good additional and useful programs.
But, you know, you do not need any of them to have a complete working and useful Puppy.
The things they do not tell you, are usually the clue to solving the problem.
When I was a kid I wanted to be older.... This is not what I expected :shock:
YaPI(any iso installer)

oui

#38 Post by oui »

I can't remember the installation of some Windows NT derivate as I never did use them on my own PC's :lol: .

But I can remember the use of the real Mozilla internet suite on Puppy 1.nn, probably 1.03 (?) and this browser did always be the companion of Puppy all the time with only little interruptions. It was a GREAT progress you can't estimate really well more than 10 y. later... Although we did be desirous to pack Puppy on a credit card CD of 50 MB we did resist to the temptation to change the full Mozilla suite against Opera!

At that time, it was very important to get a Puppy with all! In the first Puppy stable version (and all the precedent ones, I know and did use them daily!) it was not possible to save data or add app's or remaster themself the iso. Step by step only did appear those abilities. The last step, the possibility to load about an unlimited quantity of dotsfs did appear very late!

But, please realist, we have it know! You argumentation is a blind speech... We can load dotsfs, also small dotsfs where needing! We can load them using start scripts at booting time! I am an 70 y. old man but it seems for me, I am younger as young people! They are inhibited: they impose tradition where it is good for her argumentation and break the tradition where not according her feelings... What is that :twisted: ?

Old Puppyists using the ability of Mozilla/Seamonkey suite to manage all the email transactions and store them (as well as IRC)... they did feel pissed on as new Puppyists did begin to play with the unpleasant idea to live without the real Mozilla/Seamonkey suite because of their private data and habitudes. They were also accustomed to use mainly mplayer and not vlc. etc!

you refer to the tradition in your argumentation... but you don't hesitate a minute to disturb the Puppyists sticking to the old habits of Puppy! Hm, I think it is nonsens...

Yes, it is right, that Lucide did not force to use seamonkey or firefox or opera or chrome or chromium or iron etc... Yes, it is true, that the acceptance did be mixed! Why? Old Puppyists did stay avid to have their Seamonkey (and sometime to test the google browser beginning to be meet on unescapable places (smart phones). New Puppyist did find firefox smart, minimalist did prefer sometimes opera (comming from non free sector of the software), apple friends and google fans derivates from webkitt... This was the problem: Giving freedom, you have to respond to many choices and your depositories have to be acceded clearly and easily. I am not certain, that playing with frontend tools to download both dotpups or dotsfs are the best choice: That tool did be included in versions where the dependencies where not satisfied! You did have no browser... Some variant did not be present, etc. In my eyes, it is nonsens to make dotpups or dotsfs from Seamonkey: If the dependencies are all present, you install from Seamonkey site. The problem is more: nothing to help to add this package of third part correctly into the Puppy system (menu, /usr/local/bin, /root/.config/.../SentTo and OpenWith, /usr/share/applications: This tools doen't exist since today. It has to be used once (if you don't change your view on you system), not for all daily updates of Mozilla, and that is THE problem meet by a great number of Puppyists claiming for actualizations INTO the ISO... You know perfectly that.

The major problem (causing the most deception) is:

Puppy is not modular

but Puppy has no standards! Always a different Puppy disturbing you in your daily work.

I am now in the full install Lubuntu64 minimal (is the only the base: it is not minimal any more :wink: ) 16.04 full install because I will use 64 bit, I will use a system not warming my PC (divers linux do that, including a lot of Puppys), with all the app's I will and need (excepted XVidCap, but I have equivalents, only not so good at XVidCap). And it is like a Puppy, including didiwiki, rox, ayttm, mHwaveEdit etc. all real goodies of Puppy, Seamonkey, etc. ... So I can preserve all my old Puppy habits!

I actually can not any more do that with the most real Puppy's and derivates, it is absurd!

But I would prefer a good Puppy and test and experiment with, because that, each new version hopping to meet a good real old Puppy with perfect updated software and libraries (this is the kick!)... Why would I really prefer a real Puppy?

The first Puppy were the pure discretion: Nothing more in the PC after shutdown! No risk of contamination, no risk of spying, etc. It was the probably the most interesting quality of Puppy: secure, discrete, and safe outside the actual session.

Don't forget: The Puppy world is split today:

- the two new ways of BK (forcing to install else if it is not a Quirky but a Puppy)
(if fully installed Puppy/Quirky become simply a directly competitor from
Lubuntu minimal, SliTaz, full installed mode, or NuTyx! Why :roll: ?)
- the Puppy's starting from ISO in old Puppy manner, this Xenialpup64 will follow this way and permits the frugal mode missing in two above ways from BK
- the "dog"s. I am happy about the dogs, it is a good way (for me as I have a good RAM 8 GB: I can install with apt-get and remaster and continue to start: I can pack and unpack those big *.sfs... But Ubuntu did claim divers small differences / don't permit divers small operations on the software although the base, the dogs are more only base as you can install more easily directly from ubuntu. And they are "heavy" in size for only a base).
Which place will get in the middle and far future each system in that competition as the Puppy community loose places in the ranking list?

It did re-become that first with the Arch Pup having no save file. A great but loosed progress of Puppy sacrificed only to enter a full hand of personally data and add permanent software (possible today loading dotsfs and naming them in the bootstart file... / remastering the system, it is easy and flexible with the optimized tools...)

I find that dilemma completely absurd!

Kind regards
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Pelo

Movie DVDs don't play properly with VLC, (jerky), they play

#39 Post by Pelo »

Movie DVDs don't play properly with VLC, (jerky), they play properly
That is to solve !
VLC has a problem, Gnome-Mplayer with Slacko.
Puppy passengers use DVDS, young passengers before sleeping, watching there movies. :!:
I remember main problem is to choose chapters..
If VLC does not work, make XineDVD as default.
We don't mind geeks easily repair and changes default apps. We want a ready for use Puppy, not to develop programs, but to watch DVDS :)

Pelo

Check list :

#40 Post by Pelo »

about default apps provided, test them before releasing the Puppy :
Check list :
You tube
Facebook
CD and DVDS
Pupsaves
Recording function.
VLC fails, several posts about that.
My Xenial 64 has a serious problem of screen, (latence) images don't appear immediately. Puppies 64 bits are slower than 32, until now !!! A Slacko version only uses one processor from the four available !
Do you want Puppy to keep a real OS for public or a training tool for students first age ?
OUI is zapping amoung Linux OS, searching the n-accessible star. He is back to Puppy, yes ! Finally, Puppy is the faster, and the best.. And everybody has a non garbled one at home, with Mplayer and DVDs working well.

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