In Muppy I experimented with adding files via unionfs using Puppy2, but it caused strange bugs.
The only way to do it reliable, was to do it from inside initrd.gz (init).
So before the filesystem is "pivoted" from "/initrd" to "/".
This means you cannot add/remove .sfs files "on the fly" once Puppy 2 booted.
I think also Nathan found no solution yet?
Mark
Puppy 110CE
Breakthrough
This is really interesting, if not a breakthrough. Puppy 1 used to mount only one usr_more.sfs. Now more mounts will be possible. And you can trim or fatten your Puppy at will.
I wonder what effect it will have upgrading the kernel together with this change? My main concern is the use of USB-2 devices in Puppy.
At the moment nobody is actively on top of 1.10, so perhaps it's your call, sunburnt.
I wonder what effect it will have upgrading the kernel together with this change? My main concern is the use of USB-2 devices in Puppy.
At the moment nobody is actively on top of 1.10, so perhaps it's your call, sunburnt.
Puppy user since Oct 2004. Want FreeOffice? [url=http://puppylinux.info/topic/freeoffice-2012-sfs]Get the sfs (English only)[/url].
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Lobster
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It is a breakthrough Sunburnt. Rather than thinking of adding everything at once, we could concentrate on one or two items . . .
So it is a question of someone (perhaps you Sunburnt - you will get a lot of help and support) adding your program to 1.09 and other people perhaps documenting or helping with providing possible sfs files
for example a programmers sfs . . .
It really needs someone who can create and upload (many of us can host) a modified ISO. Raffy you have experience too? Sunburnt - want to have a go?
I have just created an unleashed once - I am not yet sure how to add new programs . . . it is probably quite straightforward?
So it is a question of someone (perhaps you Sunburnt - you will get a lot of help and support) adding your program to 1.09 and other people perhaps documenting or helping with providing possible sfs files
for example a programmers sfs . . .
It really needs someone who can create and upload (many of us can host) a modified ISO. Raffy you have experience too? Sunburnt - want to have a go?
I have just created an unleashed once - I am not yet sure how to add new programs . . . it is probably quite straightforward?
Lobster; As I said... I've never made an ISO file, I extract & maybe burn them.
I also don't use Puppy from CD-DVD, HD & USB only, so I'm not your builder.
NOTE: sfsManager is working & usable NOW
However my ideas for the new setup for sfs files are future tense.
Future wise... the changes to existing sfs files would be minimal, a few dirs. & files added is all.
Having many smaller sfs files eases the downloading & each sfs is targeted
at a paticular set of apps., not a huge wad to try to get everything into it.
raffy; Puppy-1 mounts & unions usr_more.sfs & usr_devx.sfs files also, but that's all it does.
MU; I think it can be done, as I stated... the loop devices being inside the union is BAD.
Also the mount points for the unioned files being inside the union is most probably BAD also.
These are the major differences between Puppy-1 & Puppy-2 in this regard.
I made these suggestions to NathanF, but he's busy with mid term exams right now.
The trick for Puppy-2 would be to use new dirs.: /dev & /mnt outside the union mount point: /
A very small ramdisk could have a /dev dir. with only loop devices in it & a /mnt dir.
This ramdisk would only be used by unionfs & the sfs file mount points.
I think Puppy-2 keeps the ramdisk, so maybe it could be used.
Usually sfs files don't mount on dirs. in /mnt, but doing it this way solves a host of problems.
Nathan talked about using tmpfs, I'm not sure that'll work as tmpfs IS /, isn't it?
I'm still quite vauge on the total structure of Puppy-2 & how it works.
BUT... the fact that this works in Puppy-1 means it could work in Puppy-2 also.
But as I said, it probably would take a MAJOR restructuring of Puppy-2 (such a shame).
I also don't use Puppy from CD-DVD, HD & USB only, so I'm not your builder.
NOTE: sfsManager is working & usable NOW
However my ideas for the new setup for sfs files are future tense.
Future wise... the changes to existing sfs files would be minimal, a few dirs. & files added is all.
Having many smaller sfs files eases the downloading & each sfs is targeted
at a paticular set of apps., not a huge wad to try to get everything into it.
raffy; Puppy-1 mounts & unions usr_more.sfs & usr_devx.sfs files also, but that's all it does.
MU; I think it can be done, as I stated... the loop devices being inside the union is BAD.
Also the mount points for the unioned files being inside the union is most probably BAD also.
These are the major differences between Puppy-1 & Puppy-2 in this regard.
I made these suggestions to NathanF, but he's busy with mid term exams right now.
The trick for Puppy-2 would be to use new dirs.: /dev & /mnt outside the union mount point: /
A very small ramdisk could have a /dev dir. with only loop devices in it & a /mnt dir.
This ramdisk would only be used by unionfs & the sfs file mount points.
I think Puppy-2 keeps the ramdisk, so maybe it could be used.
Usually sfs files don't mount on dirs. in /mnt, but doing it this way solves a host of problems.
Nathan talked about using tmpfs, I'm not sure that'll work as tmpfs IS /, isn't it?
I'm still quite vauge on the total structure of Puppy-2 & how it works.
BUT... the fact that this works in Puppy-1 means it could work in Puppy-2 also.
But as I said, it probably would take a MAJOR restructuring of Puppy-2 (such a shame).
- Attachments
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- sfsManager.pup
- For Puppy-1.x.x versions ONLY !!! ... Please report bugs...
- (3.27 KiB) Downloaded 201 times
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Pizzasgood
- Posts: 6183
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- Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
I haven't burnt a Puppy cd in months. The beauty of Unleashed is that it works on the harddrive, maintains the progress between reboots, and is more or less standalone from your OS. I think there might have been a bit about running the same kernel as the Puppy you build, but I'm not sure. But that just applies to the build part. The editing can even be done in Windows if you can mount an ext2 partition.
When you run the createpuppy script, it spits out an iso. That iso can be burned, uploaded, or mounted and extracted. Actually, you don't need to extract it because the isolinux directory of Unleashed already has that.
One of the problems with that is you need almost half a gig of hd, at least for Puppy 2.12.
When you run the createpuppy script, it spits out an iso. That iso can be burned, uploaded, or mounted and extracted. Actually, you don't need to extract it because the isolinux directory of Unleashed already has that.
One of the problems with that is you need almost half a gig of hd, at least for Puppy 2.12.
[size=75]Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. --Muad'Dib[/size]
[img]http://www.browserloadofcoolness.com/sig.png[/img]
[img]http://www.browserloadofcoolness.com/sig.png[/img]
@Lobster: The wikipage for 110CE has these two contradicting goals:
- Straight to desktop: 800 x 600 Vesa - leading to probe 1024 x 768, then 800 x 600, and finally 640 x 480 res
- support for built i810 and 845 graphics commonly found built into motherboards.
There are many old machines that cannot work with Xvesa. Booting directly into Xvesa on these PCs just leads to an unusable screen. There must, IMO, be a choice to use Xorg at startup. Most machines with the i810 familiy graphics chips (including 845) only work with Xorg, although some can present a low resolution desktop with Xvesa - this is BIOS dependent. Unless someone has a come up with a better idea, we may be able to backport an xorgwizard from 2.xx, perhaps 2.13, but I think that version requires the newer GTK. That should also take care of keyboard and mouse detection as well. IIRC, one big difference between 1.xx and 2.xx kernels was the long delay in USB detection - at least for USB1. That would have to be modified.
@Sunburnt: Great app - sfsManager! With this, it should be possible to create a small, basic Puppy with general apps and tools, then add a specific sfs to expand the apps available in any particular area of interest. I'll have to give it a try
Paul
- Straight to desktop: 800 x 600 Vesa - leading to probe 1024 x 768, then 800 x 600, and finally 640 x 480 res
- support for built i810 and 845 graphics commonly found built into motherboards.
There are many old machines that cannot work with Xvesa. Booting directly into Xvesa on these PCs just leads to an unusable screen. There must, IMO, be a choice to use Xorg at startup. Most machines with the i810 familiy graphics chips (including 845) only work with Xorg, although some can present a low resolution desktop with Xvesa - this is BIOS dependent. Unless someone has a come up with a better idea, we may be able to backport an xorgwizard from 2.xx, perhaps 2.13, but I think that version requires the newer GTK. That should also take care of keyboard and mouse detection as well. IIRC, one big difference between 1.xx and 2.xx kernels was the long delay in USB detection - at least for USB1. That would have to be modified.
@Sunburnt: Great app - sfsManager! With this, it should be possible to create a small, basic Puppy with general apps and tools, then add a specific sfs to expand the apps available in any particular area of interest. I'll have to give it a try
Paul
Methinks Raspberry Pi were ideal for runnin' Puppy Linux
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Lobster
- Official Crustacean
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Who is the One?
Ideally the script in 2.13 would be used in 110
basically that tries xorg first if no joy it goes to xvesa
The point I would like to stress is the wiki page is flexible and a template for a developer. MU is working now (congratulations) and working on Muppy, Pizzasgood is working on a distro. I feel Nathan may be planning a new Grafpup . . . Hacao is busy with Hacao Linux
Do we have a developer for 110CE?
What about Erik who created QemU Puppy? Gleizl who created Puppy XPuppy Pro? Was it tempestuous who created a wi-fi backported to 1.09?
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyXP
Who is the One?
basically that tries xorg first if no joy it goes to xvesa
The point I would like to stress is the wiki page is flexible and a template for a developer. MU is working now (congratulations) and working on Muppy, Pizzasgood is working on a distro. I feel Nathan may be planning a new Grafpup . . . Hacao is busy with Hacao Linux
Do we have a developer for 110CE?
What about Erik who created QemU Puppy? Gleizl who created Puppy XPuppy Pro? Was it tempestuous who created a wi-fi backported to 1.09?
http://puppylinux.org/wikka/PuppyXP
Who is the One?
Lobster; If the Intel video chips can be detected & they're the only problem...
pakt; As I look around the Puppy forum I don't see any use of Puppy-1.
It's nice to see someone besides raffy & myself interested in & using it.
What you said about a small main Squash file with fewer apps. is exactly what I thought.
ROX, Geaney, Firefox, XMMS, Mplayer, Gaim, & a good pix viewer come to mind.
Then all other apps. that embody a paticular purpose put in sfs files (one for WMs).
This'd keep Puppy size about 50MB, & sfs files would be relativly small too.
NathanF deseves credit for the first Squash Manager in his GraphPup 1.x.x
There's no GraphPup 2.x.x yet because he can't get it to work & he didn't want less usability.
I posted this idea here 1 year ago, but back then I had no idea of how to make it happen.
SUGGESTION:
Someone who works with Puppy-2 test my hypothesis that
moving the loop devices outside the union "/" will solve the problem.
If that doesn't do it, then move the sfs file mount points outside also.
NOTE: MU's correct that a file system outside / can't be accessed, so the
root pivot part of the boot code will have to be changed (a real hornets nest).
Unioning on / makes manipulating the file system ALMOST impossable.
Puppy-2 keeps the boot ramdisk I think, but if it's part of the union a new ones needed.
The new dir. structure would look something like:
/
/ram1/dev
/ram1/mnt
/rootfs/(the normal Puppy-2 file system)
This means that the current "/" would become "/rootfs" with "/" above it.
pakt; As I look around the Puppy forum I don't see any use of Puppy-1.
It's nice to see someone besides raffy & myself interested in & using it.
What you said about a small main Squash file with fewer apps. is exactly what I thought.
ROX, Geaney, Firefox, XMMS, Mplayer, Gaim, & a good pix viewer come to mind.
Then all other apps. that embody a paticular purpose put in sfs files (one for WMs).
This'd keep Puppy size about 50MB, & sfs files would be relativly small too.
NathanF deseves credit for the first Squash Manager in his GraphPup 1.x.x
There's no GraphPup 2.x.x yet because he can't get it to work & he didn't want less usability.
I posted this idea here 1 year ago, but back then I had no idea of how to make it happen.
SUGGESTION:
Someone who works with Puppy-2 test my hypothesis that
moving the loop devices outside the union "/" will solve the problem.
If that doesn't do it, then move the sfs file mount points outside also.
NOTE: MU's correct that a file system outside / can't be accessed, so the
root pivot part of the boot code will have to be changed (a real hornets nest).
Unioning on / makes manipulating the file system ALMOST impossable.
Puppy-2 keeps the boot ramdisk I think, but if it's part of the union a new ones needed.
The new dir. structure would look something like:
/
/ram1/dev
/ram1/mnt
/rootfs/(the normal Puppy-2 file system)
This means that the current "/" would become "/rootfs" with "/" above it.
Problems with Xvesa and Neomagic chips also come to mind.sunburnt wrote:Lobster; If the Intel video chips can be detected & they're the only problem...
Shh, don't tell anyone, but 1.0.7-customized (and with Nathan's OOo-sfs) is actually my *main* Puppysunburnt wrote:pakt; As I look around the Puppy forum I don't see any use of Puppy-1.
It's nice to see someone besides raffy & myself interested in & using it.
Been using it daily since it first came out. Even my wife uses it on her PC and loves it. I grub-boot into 2.xx versions mainly for testing and development work for the eBox. I told myself that I would switch over to 2.xx once it stabilized, but I think the versions keep changing too rapidly to settle on any one.I can see myself helping to develop 1.10CE - backporting 2.13's xorgwizard for example.
Paul
Methinks Raspberry Pi were ideal for runnin' Puppy Linux
Yep, my daily ride is EmptyCrust-107 with Firefox, Samba server, & others.
NathanF's OO sfs file sounds like a prime cantidate for an advanced sfs setup.
See my post in Suggestions:
http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.p ... f29ddbfa8a
Q; pakt, being as you use Puppy-1, would you try to crash my sfsManager?
Try running a few apps., then add OO with sfsManager, & then usr_devx.sfs
Add & remove the sfs files repetedly, start & close apps. in & out of the union.
Be sure to close apps. in the sfs files before removing them from the union.
sfsManager doesn't do that yet, but with advanced sfs files it'd be automatic.
I've used it with most of the installed apps. running, & it hasn't crashed yet.
sfsManager uses the standard Union utility: unionctl, so it's sure to be reliable.
NathanF's OO sfs file sounds like a prime cantidate for an advanced sfs setup.
See my post in Suggestions:
http://208.109.22.214/puppy/viewtopic.p ... f29ddbfa8a
Q; pakt, being as you use Puppy-1, would you try to crash my sfsManager?
Try running a few apps., then add OO with sfsManager, & then usr_devx.sfs
Add & remove the sfs files repetedly, start & close apps. in & out of the union.
Be sure to close apps. in the sfs files before removing them from the union.
sfsManager doesn't do that yet, but with advanced sfs files it'd be automatic.
I've used it with most of the installed apps. running, & it hasn't crashed yet.
sfsManager uses the standard Union utility: unionctl, so it's sure to be reliable.
Yep, can do. There's a storm moving into our area again, so if the electricity goes (we live in the middle of the forest and trees usually knock the power/phone lines down), I may not reply for a day or sosunburnt wrote:Q; pakt, being as you use Puppy-1, would you try to crash my sfsManager?
Try running a few apps., then add OO with sfsManager, & then usr_devx.sfs
Add & remove the sfs files repetedly, start & close apps. in & out of the union.
Be sure to close apps. in the sfs files before removing them from the union.
sfsManager doesn't do that yet, but with advanced sfs files it'd be automatic.
I've used it with most of the installed apps. running, & it hasn't crashed yet.
sfsManager uses the standard Union utility: unionctl, so it's sure to be reliable.
Btw, is there a way of putting an icon on the desktop without having to add it to PuppyPin? Perhaps sfsManager already does this, ie, when a sfs is added, corresponding icons could be placed on the desktop.
Paul
Methinks Raspberry Pi were ideal for runnin' Puppy Linux
pakt; Here's the command line utility: rox-pinbd
To get help on usage type: rox-pinbd -h
It's mainly for app. installers (DotPups) to automate DT icons, so no GUI...
It works good & MU tried it with success, let me know...
Your friend; Terry
To get help on usage type: rox-pinbd -h
It's mainly for app. installers (DotPups) to automate DT icons, so no GUI...
It works good & MU tried it with success, let me know...
Your friend; Terry
- Attachments
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- rox-pinbd.gz
- I'll be making more utilities like this soon...
- (1.08 KiB) Downloaded 155 times