Puppy has been running fine now for weeks. Starting today, occurring twice, I start out with 56meg of free memory on the task bar, I start SeaMonkey and and then it goes critical and stays that was for more then 15min before I shut it down. When I go to shut it down, it appears to be shutting down, then the desktop returns. I have to shut it down going to the prompt and typing 'poweroff'.
I have a IBM Thinkpad T-20 with 256Meg of RAM. I store my Pup files on a 1Gig thumb drive so I can move between various computers I use. I have not added any new program to Puppy for over two weeks except NoScripts for SeaMonkey. It has been working like a charm. It has no problem running Win98 for my kids who use the same laptop. I need to use SeaMonkey for my work.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. -Mark
Critical Memory Error Message
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Sit Heel Speak
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It sounds like you are running Pupmode 13, i.e. you are booting Puppy off the USB stick--see the How Puppy Works page, linked from the main www.puppyos.com page. Because USB sticks are good for only a finite number of writes, Puppy when booted from USB stick creates a ramdisk as a temporary holding area for downloaded and changed files. At intervals, the ramdisk contents are copied to your USB stick's pup_save.2fs file. Unfortunately, because of a quirk in unionfs, the ramdisk cannot be purged after the copy. Thus the free space on the ramdisk inexhorably shrinks, until you have to reboot to purge it.
On a computer with 256 MB of RAM, the ramdisk is only ~56 MB in size, and this severely limits what you can download. I would guess, though have not tried this, that if you use GPartEd to shrink the hard disk's existing partition down by 1 GB (warning: start Win98 and defrag it first), and then use the newly-freed space as a Linux swap partition, then maybe this will cause the effective size of the ramdisk to (after you reboot) rise. Puppy user Gn2 has told me that this won't work, but I remain optimistic. If you try it, let us know whether it works.
On a computer with 256 MB of RAM, the ramdisk is only ~56 MB in size, and this severely limits what you can download. I would guess, though have not tried this, that if you use GPartEd to shrink the hard disk's existing partition down by 1 GB (warning: start Win98 and defrag it first), and then use the newly-freed space as a Linux swap partition, then maybe this will cause the effective size of the ramdisk to (after you reboot) rise. Puppy user Gn2 has told me that this won't work, but I remain optimistic. If you try it, let us know whether it works.
Thanks for the suggestions. I'm booting from CD-ROM and using the thumb drive to store the pup_save.f3 file. I writing this on my BIG Gateway laptop from work with none of the problems I am having with the ThinkPad (mentioned above). The Gateway has a 1Gig of RAM. I booted off of CD-ROM with thumb drive inserted to load my stuff and working just fine with 120Meg of free memory.
I'm just beginning to discover that removing an extension in SeaMonkey can be a pain. I have been using FireFox and just assumed you could just ask to have it deleted from the Tools menu. Shame on me!
Again, all comments greatly appreciated. -Mark
I'm just beginning to discover that removing an extension in SeaMonkey can be a pain. I have been using FireFox and just assumed you could just ask to have it deleted from the Tools menu. Shame on me!
Again, all comments greatly appreciated. -Mark
SHS
WHAT are you recalling - use of tmpfs or swap partitions vs swap files ?
Items mentioned were:
Swap files are not as efficient
Swap partitions have a size limit on i386 architecture - 2GIG EACH
If larger the extra swap space is unusable
Tmpfs is Ram - can use swap space, is dynamically sized
Anything stored in RAM is gone at power off
Puppy saves at pre-determined time intervals - uses storage device as set by user.
OR saving can be ignored
User has option Where to store @ logoff
WHAT are you recalling - use of tmpfs or swap partitions vs swap files ?
Items mentioned were:
Swap files are not as efficient
Swap partitions have a size limit on i386 architecture - 2GIG EACH
If larger the extra swap space is unusable
Tmpfs is Ram - can use swap space, is dynamically sized
Anything stored in RAM is gone at power off
Puppy saves at pre-determined time intervals - uses storage device as set by user.
OR saving can be ignored
User has option Where to store @ logoff
-Mark-
Sit Heel Speak
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http://murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=14457Gn2 wrote:SHS...WHAT are you recalling...?
You will pardon it if your curt, syntax-less writing style leads to confusion. You seemed to imply, in that context, that if a swap space is allocated in the init prior to creation of the changes-tmpfs, then the tmpfs will not dynamically expand into it (this was the nut of my "strategy" which you referenced).Rethink strategy - tmpfs IS RAM -
VIRTUAL character file system device/s
The dedicated swap partition or file is paged in/out as needed
Based on my reading of the Sun Microsystems document cited therein, I challenged your implied premise. It seemed to me contrarywise that, by allocating swap space in the init script prior to instantiation of the tmpfs (which is exactly what happens in Puppy in a case like mwestlund's, provided the swap space exists as a swap partition rather than a swap file), ...a changes-tmpfs will thereby be created whose size is larger than available (at that point in the init script) physical RAM.
It appears that mwestlund's successful experience has borne my theory out, i.e. my speculative prescription based on the theory, works. I would further speculate that, by raising the size of his pup_save.nfs file, mwestlund could further raise the size of free memory as shown by freememapplet. In other words, I believe that the limiting factor is now the free space in the save file, not the free space in the changes-tmpfs. If mwestlund right-clicks on the freememapplet number, then left-clicks on "show partition sizes" (or whatever it says), I now speculate that he will see that the savefile is the "partition" with the smallest free space remaining (aside from the initial ramdisk at far left, which doesn't matter and isn't counted). If he were to enlarge the savefile to, say, 1 GB, then he could download whole large distro-.iso's such as Rudy Puppy using his USB-stick Puppy-installation. A goldfish snacking on a shark, as it were.
Last edited by Sit Heel Speak on Mon 22 Jan 2007, 20:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Sit Heel Speak
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Actually, come to think of it, I'm not sure that it is even necessary to enlarge the pup_save file to download a large .iso. It is possible that just having the enlarged ramdisk will suffice, provided that the .iso is saved to somewhere other than the filesystem within the pup_save, for example to /mnt/hda1.
WTH --- is syntax-less writing ?
For the OP's request -- why was it felt necessary to include asides !
Why do any blame their own lack on MY "writing style" !!
I do not ramble - do end sentences and don't habitually use non-stop lines, paragraphs.
The "confusion" lies in understanding how tmpfs is applied in Puppy.
Swap is used when physical Ram is insufficient.
Tmpfs IS use of RAM - if RAM low, a swap partition is used.
Same as if no tmpfs was used. - portions get paged in/out on demand.
The difference is.... tmpfs is dynamically sized & can still use a swap storage.
Glibc 2.2 & above expect tmpfs to be mounted at /dev/shm for Posix shared mem.
Posix is not mandatory in Linux to use tmpfs
Tmpfs is better applied if own mount point is created in fstab
If wish to conform to Posix
For possiblity of some large Apps "expecting" Posix use > for temporary creation of build files, use both.
Puppy is unique in need for sufficient storage space if running in RAM
Esp if physical RAM is minimal.
Vector Linux ran into this w/installs of some Apps failing:
Even when both RAM was more than needed & a large swap partition was used.
It invariably turned out to be their use of /dev/shm for tmpfs
Yes - it would be better to store a download in dedicated folder under mounted partition other than pivotal root.
Gentoo e-builds if using Portage - fetches sources, downloads into specified target folder.
Portage temporary build space etal is configured by Gentoo's unique make.conf file.
When I compile sans portage & E-builds - use own created dedicated locations, to store & compile (under user's home folder)
In that manner, all steps not requiring root permissions are in user's ~ and of course - root path
That way security also is not compromised
Gentoo is not binary-based Linux
Vector Linux has own FSH variations
Puppy is not generic linux
Running in Ram has own unique requirements.
Persistent storage & running in pivotal root is unique >
be aware of & try to understand variances !
For the OP's request -- why was it felt necessary to include asides !
Why do any blame their own lack on MY "writing style" !!
I do not ramble - do end sentences and don't habitually use non-stop lines, paragraphs.
The "confusion" lies in understanding how tmpfs is applied in Puppy.
Swap is used when physical Ram is insufficient.
Tmpfs IS use of RAM - if RAM low, a swap partition is used.
Same as if no tmpfs was used. - portions get paged in/out on demand.
The difference is.... tmpfs is dynamically sized & can still use a swap storage.
Glibc 2.2 & above expect tmpfs to be mounted at /dev/shm for Posix shared mem.
Posix is not mandatory in Linux to use tmpfs
Tmpfs is better applied if own mount point is created in fstab
Code: Select all
none /mnt/tmpfs tmpfs Code: Select all
shm /dev/shm tmpfs nodev,nosuid,noexec Puppy is unique in need for sufficient storage space if running in RAM
Esp if physical RAM is minimal.
Vector Linux ran into this w/installs of some Apps failing:
Even when both RAM was more than needed & a large swap partition was used.
It invariably turned out to be their use of /dev/shm for tmpfs
Yes - it would be better to store a download in dedicated folder under mounted partition other than pivotal root.
Gentoo e-builds if using Portage - fetches sources, downloads into specified target folder.
Portage temporary build space etal is configured by Gentoo's unique make.conf file.
When I compile sans portage & E-builds - use own created dedicated locations, to store & compile (under user's home folder)
In that manner, all steps not requiring root permissions are in user's ~ and of course - root path
That way security also is not compromised
Gentoo is not binary-based Linux
Vector Linux has own FSH variations
Puppy is not generic linux
Running in Ram has own unique requirements.
Persistent storage & running in pivotal root is unique >
be aware of & try to understand variances !
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Sit Heel Speak
- Posts: 2595
- Joined: Fri 31 Mar 2006, 03:22
- Location: downwind
The weakness I see in hewing to efficient economy of words is that it skips steps, assuming a level of previous technical experience and underlying comprehension which is not always there. In the other thread, the brief advice to "rethink your strategy" reads as though you were stating it won't work; I still don't get what it is you were suggesting I rethink. I respect your expertise enough to caution someone when I dispense advice counter to yours, especially when I haven't tested it and am not sure it will work. It was meant as a "disclaimer," not a "Parthian shot" or an "aside."Gn2 wrote:WTH --- is syntax-less writing ?
For the OP's request -- why was it felt necessary to include asides !
Why do any blame their own lack on MY "writing style" !!
I do not ramble - do end sentences and don't habitually use non-stop lines, paragraphs...
As for the non-Posix-compliance of Puppy, I do not have enough experience to judge whether it would be a good idea or not to make Puppy so. For all I know, perhaps Barry has kept Puppy deliberately not Posix-compliant for security reasons. Can you give some examples of large apps which "expect" Posix-compliance insofar as a tmpfs being mounted at /dev/shm?
I have no experience yet with Gentoo. But you've praised it so often that I've just downloaded the latest stable live-DVD .iso.Gentoo e-builds if using Portage - fetches sources, downloads into specified target folder...
Ahhh- but if you wished to continue examining technical aspects of tmpfs etal -
It should have been there as that was the thread topic.
Hence , here it is as an aside !
Rethink suitability to purpose (topic header, help request)
Re-read other post - to clarify your proposal for swap files
Continue there if wished
Please end sentences for clarity = Readability
Enjoy Gentoo - it is not for those who tag it as GEEKS -
But it is also NOT for casual users !
Running it live - you will not see much - it is LInux .
Installing it -then leaning to use it's customisations to own
wants -
Or just READ the Docs - not glance through them.
To those of little patience - Gentoo will not be a pleasant experience.
For starters - there is NO wizardy to configure anything.
If not on broadband......&/or restricted to Puppy class hardware
or addicted to Puppy way of basics >
Forget it.
It should have been there as that was the thread topic.
Hence , here it is as an aside !
Rethink suitability to purpose (topic header, help request)
Re-read other post - to clarify your proposal for swap files
Continue there if wished
Please end sentences for clarity = Readability
Enjoy Gentoo - it is not for those who tag it as GEEKS -
But it is also NOT for casual users !
Running it live - you will not see much - it is LInux .
Installing it -then leaning to use it's customisations to own
wants -
Or just READ the Docs - not glance through them.
To those of little patience - Gentoo will not be a pleasant experience.
For starters - there is NO wizardy to configure anything.
If not on broadband......&/or restricted to Puppy class hardware
or addicted to Puppy way of basics >
Forget it.