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Puppy related raves and general interest that doesn't fit anywhere else
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Colonel Panic
Posts: 2171
Joined: Sat 16 Sep 2006, 11:09

#2381 Post by Colonel Panic »

Thanks for your reply, but just a note if I may on the question of free software.

On ConnochaetOS;

"the author submitted it to the fsf list of free software distros and they mucked it up somehow. he refuses to resubmit it until they explain why they wont give him the same response next time Smile seriously though, that list is never going to grow. they dont manage their initiatives very well, its really too bad (i used to help fund them.) i do like the ryf list."

That's a shame. Back in the days when ConnochaetOS was based on Arch, I got some shade thrown at me on its forum for admitting that I used an early version of Opera in my installation of the distro, because Opera of course isn't open source.

They're entitled to their view, but for me whether software is open source or not has never been as important as how well it works on my system; and unfortunately for example Iceweasel does seem to be more crash prone than mainstream Firefox (I don't know why), so I'm reluctant to use it or at least to rely on it as my only browser.

I'm also happy to use Softmaker Office, which definitely isn't open source; I've even taken advantage of the special offers the company holds occasionally to register and pay for it.

I do understand though that some people take a different view on all this, but for me the priority is to have a system that works, is reliable and doesn't crash or freeze up. If it's possible to have all that and free software as well, then great; but if not then crashing browsers, or ones which won't play the videos or other flash content I want, aren't IMO a price worth paying.
Last edited by Colonel Panic on Tue 23 Aug 2016, 21:18, edited 2 times in total.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

learnhow2code

#2382 Post by learnhow2code »

Colonel Panic wrote:That's a shame. Back in the days when ConnochaetOS was based on Arch, I got some shade thrown at me on its forum for admitting that I used an early version of Opera in my installation of the distro, because Opera of course isn't open source.
well yeah-- theyre trying to promote the exclusive use of non-proprietary software. and while ive been in YOUR shoes on this issue on more than one occasion-- the number of places you can even get away with talking about using 100% free software (without getting shade thrown at you) is really a tiny minority.

like i wouldnt get far trying to promote that idea here (though you may note im a librepup fan. i also need to get the non-free wifi drivers out of fig os. i was waiting until i talked to the refracta dev about which ones were non-free.)
They're entitled to their view, but for me whether or not software is open source or not has never been as important as how well it works on my system; and unfortunately for example Iceweasel does seem to be more crash prone than mainstream Firefox (I donlt know why).
iceweasel is just an old version of firefox without the branding. mozilla doesnt even have the issue it did when iceweasel became necessary (it was mozilla that suggested the new name.) but thats new.

im typing this from the same version of mozilla ff that is in refracta and thus fig os, but id like to switch to palemoon because "it sucks less."
I'm also happy to use Softmaker Office, which definitely isn't open source; I've even taken advantage of the special offers the company holds occasionally to register and pay for it.
youre in the majority. dont take it personally if the 100% libre crowd has one or two little sandboxes. honestly, it should be more than that, but it probably never will be :(

think about it. cheers.
Last edited by learnhow2code on Tue 23 Aug 2016, 20:40, edited 1 time in total.

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Colonel Panic
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#2383 Post by Colonel Panic »

Thanks again. I've since edited that post (I didn't know you were reading it at the time!)

Cheers,

CP .
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

learnhow2code

#2384 Post by learnhow2code »

Colonel Panic wrote:Thanks again. I've since edited that post (I didn't know you were reading it at the time!)
let me know if you want to fix the quotes :) i will leave them if it doesnt matter either way.

i was an "open source" guy first... the entire reason the fsf (and the gnu project) was created was to relieve people of any need to run non-free software-- to give people the option not to. so there are few distros that meet this criteria. debian imo does a good job with their blob-free kernel and well-organized repos. (but linux-libre, trisquel and gnewsense came first.)

what "open source" did was reframe the entire issue as practical and shifting things to being more corporate-friendly (not commercial friendly, thats a separate issue.)

whenever free software advocates stand up for their position, its framed as an attack on your choices and on open source. but after scrutinizing the history of this (for years,) ive decided that open source really co-opted free software.

the good news? you still get both choices-- the free software way, or the "anything goes" open source way. and i sure wont tell you what to do! but if you ever get curious, one of the founders of the open source initiative (bruce perens, who wrote the debian free software guidelines that the "open source definition" was based on) left osi and wrote this, 17 years ago:
I'm Bruce Perens. You may know me as the primary author of the Debian Free
Software Guidelines and the Open Source Definition. I wrote the Electric
Fence malloc() debugger, and some pieces of Debian.
https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/1 ... 01641.html

i dont expect this to sway anyone, i dont even expect you to read it. its part of the history of (gnu/) "linux" and its something i feel is left out of "the story." i know most people probably find it boring and irrelevant, and thats one reason "open source" will always seem hip and fun-- it sets the (political) bar of entry much lower. whats not to like :) its not really a "war" though-- its two organizations debating whether the first one has a right to talk about itself and its goals.

thats why i went to the "free software" side. but i also cancelled my fsf membership for "reasons."

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Colonel Panic
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#2385 Post by Colonel Panic »

Thanks for replying. To be honest the conversation has stalled at my end because I'm hazy about the distinction between "free" and "open source" software. I'd always taken them to be more or less the same thing.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

learnhow2code

#2386 Post by learnhow2code »

Colonel Panic wrote:I'm hazy about the distinction between "free" and "open source" software. I'd always taken them to be more or less the same thing.
in the states we have "organic" and "all natural."

"all natural" is a marketing term that means nothing at all, whereas open source has a solid definition, but it actually stands for for less in practice. with a lower bar of entry, its always going to have more support.

"organic" tends to mean something, especially "certified organic," although the exceptions are frustrating if not evil. compare this to free software, which actually stands for quite a lot-- though in the firmware world it means "theyve cleverly blocked updates so its ok that its not free." <- this is a little unfair and said with anger and contempt.

open source definitely plays off the fact that "the open source definition" (osd) and the "free software definition" (aka "the 4 freedoms") are generally the same thing: open source SOFTWARE and free SOFTWARE almost always overlap. but the movements/organizations are two distinct things, which is where open source plays fast and loose, and imo dirty. if it all sounds ridiculous-- it is. but there will never be "unity" because their goals are actually different.

what i hate most of all is that open source split off from what free software is doing, and is constantly insinuating that free software "doesnt play along" because they kept their own goals.

if you split off from the american dental association to cozy up to soft drink manufacturers, and accused the ada of not "playing like a team" or being "ideologues" for continuing along the same goals they had prior to the split, that would be pretty dirty. i dont think this characterization of open source is far at all from being fair.

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Colonel Panic
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#2387 Post by Colonel Panic »

Thanks again. though I think for the sake of discussion I'll use the term "open source software" as it at least does have a clear definition,

Another good distro; the latest version of (AntiX) MX, 15.01. It's easy on resources, looks good and as far as I can tell is very stable. It's still available in a 32-bit edition (fewer and fewer Linux distros are these days), and I'm using the 32-bit version.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

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Burn_IT
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#2388 Post by Burn_IT »

Free means you don't have to pay for it, but cannot legally change it in any way.

Open Source means that you can suggest and submit changes to the program. It is usually, but not necessarily, free.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

learnhow2code

#2389 Post by learnhow2code »

Free means you don't have to pay for it, but cannot legally change it in any way.
and "free country" means you get your own country, "free speech" means you can say things without paying money.

"free" is such a confusing and ambiguous word, how can anyone derive the meaning from context?

its like "apple" -- my friend says hes surfing the net on his apple! what is he talking about? an apple is a piece of fruit. and you cant "surf" on a net-- you need a surfboard.

thankfully "open source" makes everything less confusing. "open" and "source" are words that have ONLY one meaning each, so its never complicated: if you "open" a book to the right page, youll find the "source" for each reference to other books. so open source means "with a bibliography."

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Burn_IT
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#2390 Post by Burn_IT »

Talk about "change the context"!!

What has your reply got to do with the original question??
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

learnhow2code

#2391 Post by learnhow2code »

and microsoft "windows?" what the hell is that? can people watch you on your computer through the windows? where do i buy microsoft drapes?

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Burn_IT
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#2392 Post by Burn_IT »

Again "what has that to do with the current thread??"
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

learnhow2code

#2393 Post by learnhow2code »

"current thread" -- you mean like a wire? your use of language is difficult to follow.

i thought "free software" meant "having 4 freedoms: free use, free to study, free to change, free to share." but then you showed us how much better it is to have words mean only one thing-- like "computer mouse." why shouldnt your computer have a pet?

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Burn_IT
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#2394 Post by Burn_IT »

"current thread" -- you mean like a wire? your use of language is difficult to follow.
You are either joking, or trolling, and I think it is trolling.

END OF DISCUSSION from ME as I am now going to ignore all your posts as suggested in another recent thread.
"Just think of it as leaving early to avoid the rush" - T Pratchett

rokytnji
Posts: 2262
Joined: Tue 20 Jan 2009, 15:54

#2395 Post by rokytnji »

Still rocking and rolling

http://forum.mepiscommunity.org/viewtopic.php?t=39499

Code: Select all

harry@biker:~
$ inxi -Fxz
System:    Host: biker Kernel: 4.2.1-antix.2-686-pae i686 (32 bit gcc: 4.9.2)
           Desktop: IceWM 1.3.8 Distro: antiX-15-V_386-full Killah P 30 June 2015
Machine:   System: Dell (portable) product: Latitude E4310 v: 0001
           Mobo: Dell model: 0T6M8G v: A01 Bios: Dell v: A03 date: 07/08/2010
Battery    BAT0: charge: 38.9 Wh 91.8% condition: 42.3/44.0 Wh (96%)
           model: Samsung SDI DELL RM6618A status: Charging
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core i5 M 520 (-HT-MCP-) cache: 3072 KB
           flags: (lm nx pae sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx) bmips: 9581
           clock speeds: max: 2400 MHz 1: 1199 MHz 2: 1199 MHz 3: 1999 MHz
           4: 1333 MHz
Graphics:  Card: Intel Core Processor Integrated Graphics Controller
           bus-ID: 00:02.0
           Display Server: X.Org 1.16.4 drivers: intel (unloaded: fbdev,vesa)
           Resolution: 1366x768@60.00hz
           GLX Renderer: Mesa DRI Intel Ironlake Mobile x86/MMX/SSE2
           GLX Version: 2.1 Mesa 10.3.2 Direct Rendering: Yes
Audio:     Card Intel 5 Series/3400 Series High Definition Audio
           driver: snd_hda_intel bus-ID: 00:1b.0
           Sound: Advanced Linux Sound Architecture v: k4.2.1-antix.2-686-pae
Network:   Card-1: Intel 82577LM Gigabit Network Connection
           driver: e1000e v: 3.2.5-k port: 6040 bus-ID: 00:19.0
           IF: eth0 state: down mac: <filter>
           Card-2: Intel Centrino Advanced-N 6200 driver: iwlwifi bus-ID: 02:00.0
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: <filter>
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 60.0GB (48.6% used)
           ID-1: /dev/sda model: KINGSTON_SV300S3 size: 60.0GB
Partition: ID-1: / size: 7.6G used: 5.3G (74%) fs: ext3 dev: /dev/sda2
           ID-2: /home size: 48G used: 22G (49%) fs: ext3 dev: /dev/sda1
Sensors:   System Temperatures: cpu: 52.0C mobo: N/A
           Fan Speeds (in rpm): cpu: N/A
Info:      Processes: 139 Uptime: 1:19 Memory: 564.1/8027.1MB
           Init: SysVinit runlevel: 5 Gcc sys: 4.9.2
           Client: Shell (bash 4.3.301) inxi: 2.3.0 
Got a bid going on with a IBM Think pad Edge I3 laptop. Broke ass/Needs Fixing.
If I win it ,<not a sure thing since I did not bid high> . I will be testing all kinds of obscure operating installs like

https://sourceforge.net/projects/pinkrabbitlinux/

Of course. Puppy Linux will be booted for hardware checking before hand.

Probably during the winter months out in my motorcycle shop.

learnhow2code

#2396 Post by learnhow2code »

You are either joking, or trolling, and I think it is trolling.
and i thought *you* were trolling. by all means, do not respond to my posts in the future. i wish there was some way to tip you for that. of course by "tip" i mean "offer a small fee in thanks." i dont mean tip like one tips a cow.

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Pete
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Joined: Sun 02 Mar 2014, 18:36

#2397 Post by Pete »

Back to Xslacko.
Tried it out and very impressed with it, certainly better than Mint 18.
Dual monitor support worked a treat, so did sound on a HP Elitebook 8440p
with i5 and 2GB RAM.

Just wish there were more packages available for it.

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Colonel Panic
Posts: 2171
Joined: Sat 16 Sep 2006, 11:09

#2398 Post by Colonel Panic »

Since someone mentioned BSD, I've just been trying GhostBSD 10.3, which has just come out and been listed on Distrowatch. I booted it up live but haven't so far installed it

There are unfortunately some negatives to report; it's slightly but IMO noticeably slower than a live Linux distro would be, the screen doesn't refresh as well as it does in most Linux distros, and without being knowledgeable about BSD I couldn't find any way to install any fresh software (such as Flash),. Apart from all that though, it does at least work.
Gigabyte M68MT-52P motherboard, AMD Athlon II X4 630, 5.8 GB of DDR3 RAM and a 250 GB Hitachi hard drive running Ubuntu 16.04.6, MX-19.2, Peppermint 10, PCLinuxOS 20.02, LXLE 18.04.3, Pardus 19.2, exGENT 200119, Bionic Pup 8.0 and Xenial CE 7.5 XL.

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nitehawk
Posts: 658
Joined: Sun 13 Apr 2008, 22:30
Location: West Central Florida

#2399 Post by nitehawk »

Among several pretty good computers that I have,....I always seem to somehow gravitate to this lowly, little, really "glitchy" HP Pavilion DV2000 laptop that I have. Has one of those glitchy nVidia video chips in it (that like to crash).

I was SO disappointed that most Puppies, and even Antix, seemed to make the video glitch on it!! :cry:

Maybe it's the challenge of trying to get this fool thing to work,....but I even tried Devuan on it. Worked OK,....but somehow wouldn't boot anymore, and just would "Kernal Panic".
I couldn't admit defeat,.......so I just went with plain, old, vanilla Debian. With LXDE,..it seems to be working so far. I'm not holding my breath, though.

This HUGE Tropical Storm that just swept through here,...made me not want to be using any of my good computers during the lightning strikes. Little "glitchy" laptop worked pretty good with just Debian. Now if it will just keep on working,.....(we'll see)..

PS: Thanks on the "heads up" about BSD,.....I was wondering about trying one,....

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Billtoo
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Joined: Tue 07 Apr 2009, 13:47
Location: Ontario Canada

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#2400 Post by Billtoo »

I installed Mint 18 to a 1tb usb-3.0 hard drive, computer is a hp mini
stream.

Computer
Processor 2x Intel(R) Celeron(R) 2957U @ 1.40GHz
Memory 1896MB (1022MB used)
Operating System Linux Mint 18 Sarah
User Name bill (Bill)
Date/Time Tue 06 Sep 2016 02:56:03 AM EDT
Display
Resolution 3840x1080 pixels
OpenGL Renderer Mesa DRI Intel(R) Haswell Mobile
X11 Vendor The X.Org Foundation
Multimedia
Audio Adapter HDA-Intel - HDA Intel HDMI
Audio Adapter HDA-Intel - HDA Intel PCH


SCSI Disks
ATA SanDisk SDSA6MM-
TOSHIBA MQ01ABD100
SONY DVD RW DRU-820A

Desktop Environment XFCE 4

It's working well.
Attachments
mint18.jpg
(46.51 KiB) Downloaded 190 times

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