THINSlacko

For talk and support relating specifically to Puppy derivatives
Message
Author
jlst

#141 Post by jlst »

Sage wrote:16-16.11: interesting. No browser installed in basic, as advertised - probably not generally acceptable?
..anything else should have been removed
Don't like the overhead duplication tray, reminds me of certain other distros I particularly dislike. [micko1 told me how to remove it, but it's so convoluted I can't remember] The concept of .sfs/adrv/zdrv s & co. doesn't appeal to me, esp. in a super-compact offering. Lots of particularly bland backgrounds. Not a show stopper, but why not select a few interesting ones like micko' s guitar/moonshine/guy-on-a-bike?
Otherwise, works OK and has some endearing features, would be much much better if it could be downsized to rival John's MeanPup masterpiece - still the one to beat ten years on?!
Distros nowadays come with bigger libs (much bigger), borrowing libs and apps from them ensures a bigger iso. That's probably what people don't understand or refuse to understand.

Why not use adrv, fdrv? Just place the files and boot. A puppy must come with dillo at best and with no office tools, because there's no way to please everyone. It must be like the tiny core approach. And the adrv, fdrv, ydrv, fill in the gaps.. learn to how to use them (they work from the first boot) or install the apps from the PPM.

User avatar
greengeek
Posts: 5789
Joined: Tue 20 Jul 2010, 09:34
Location: Republic of Novo Zelande

#142 Post by greengeek »

jlst wrote:Why not use adrv, fdrv? Just place the files and boot. .... And the adrv, fdrv, ydrv, fill in the gaps.. .
Understanding them can be a challenge. I feel they are not labelled in such a way that explains their function or their position within the layer hierarchy. I feel they should be renamed to enhance their understandability.

EDIT :
eg; something like this:

updates_layer.sfs (ydrv ??)
master_layer.sfs (zdrv ??)
basepup_layer.sfs (eg pup431.sfs)
slave_layer_1.sfs
slave_layer_2.sfs
firmware.sfs (fdrv ??)
applications.sfs (adrv ??)
personal_configuration_files.sfs

I know thats ugly and clunky but conceptually I think it would be helpful to have better naming of the .drv concept

jlst

#143 Post by jlst »

greengeek wrote:
jlst wrote:Why not use adrv, fdrv? Just place the files and boot. .... And the adrv, fdrv, ydrv, fill in the gaps.. .
Understanding them can be a challenge. I feel they are not labelled in such a way that explains their function or their position within the layer hierarchy. I feel they should be renamed to enhance their understandability.
You're right. I think this is the order they are found (if i'm not mistaken):
puppy.sfs
zdrv.sfs
fdrv.sfs
adrv.sfs
ydrv.sfs

from bottom to top

i'm producing a precise puppy, and it's about 169mb (gzip compressed) with all the updated stuff i put into it, but without abiword and gnumeric (though most if not all dependencies are there) and a few other apps. no retro stuff, even though i'm using a 2003 pc, it looks like the retro stuff is for machines from the 90s and for DSL

i'm using 512mb of ram and it's clear to me that a complete puppy is not the best solution. i'd say a semi barebones puppy is ok, but creating a savefolder and install everything on it. that's what puppy is about.

running a browser from a savefolder or savefile makes more sense too.

User avatar
Fossil
Posts: 1157
Joined: Tue 13 Dec 2005, 21:36
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.

#144 Post by Fossil »

@Sage
Anyone (including John!) know a live URL for Meanpup d/l? All the old ones are dead.
Is that series 2.02? puppy-2.02-opera.iso 51896KB. So long ago..... Sigh! :?
Try here: http://www.puppylinux.ca/vintage/
Specifically: http://www.puppylinux.ca/vintage/index.php?dir=2.02%2F

User avatar
ally
Posts: 1957
Joined: Sat 19 May 2012, 19:29
Location: lincoln, uk
Contact:

#145 Post by ally »


User avatar
8Geee
Posts: 2181
Joined: Mon 12 May 2008, 11:29
Location: N.E. USA

#146 Post by 8Geee »

@ Peebee

Wow, that 4.8.x kernel is big. A long-term solution might be better accomplished using
k3.16.37 (or 38 if ready). It might also be a bit smaller.

Regards
8Geee
Linux user #498913 "Some people need to reimagine their thinking."
"Zuckerberg: a large city inhabited by mentally challenged people."

jlst

#147 Post by jlst »

The size of the kernel and firmware is important too. I've been increasing the kernel size and firmware for my personal builds, because i don't like trying puppies, i want a universal one for me as i don't have time for scientific research about making things work when things are missing. I know how to deal with a big puppy having even 256MB of ram, i repackage the sfs with no compression and avoid loading anything into ram or i just perform a full install. the only reason i have for relative small puppies is because i have to build them and test them, so i need something somewhat small to perform this operation over and over again.

for my precise unofficial release i think i'll go with a tiny core kernel config and firmware, dillo and a few essential apps i can't live without (some lxde apps, engrampa, deadbeef). it will be semi barebones (many libs though) but probably not as small as it should be.. i estimate 120-150MB gzipped. just a test that will become something else for my personal use.

this is the tiny core kernel config i'm talking about: http://tinycorelinux.net/6.x/x86/release/src/kernel/ then i have to look for the corresponding kernel firmware.. of course i will offer absolutely no support...

TeX Dog
Posts: 287
Joined: Wed 06 Jul 2016, 17:57

#148 Post by TeX Dog »

jlst wrote:... repackage the sfs with no compression ...
Can you give command line or patches to mksquashfs

Sage
Posts: 5536
Joined: Tue 04 Oct 2005, 08:34
Location: GB

#149 Post by Sage »

Wow! You folks, Fossil, ally, 8G are on the ball - I couldn't find it. At that time (~10yrs ago) there was a move to provide a complete OS that would fit on a credit card CD - John's was the best. He spoke about further possible upgrades, but, like the rest of us, life moved on.

As for the arguments about supplementary additions to a base distro - fine, but it's a cludge. What is needed is a basic distro like MeanPup, a working browser (Opera), a secure kernel, easy availability of video & printer drivers and a comprehensive PPM. Anything more is overkill, frills, not to say developers ego trip in many of the listings, eg on DistroWatch & co. We all know where coding bloat was born. Remember K.I.S.S. All the most important scientific innovations have been reduced to a single-line equation, viz. e=mc^2, the Dirac, the Hamiltonian, etc. John Murga, Barry Kauler and a few others are fortunately endowed with such clear thought that they are able to reduce their code ad minimus, thereby achieving elegance.

User avatar
Fossil
Posts: 1157
Joined: Tue 13 Dec 2005, 21:36
Location: Gloucestershire, UK.

#150 Post by Fossil »

What is needed is a basic distro like MeanPup, a working browser (Opera), a secure kernel, easy availability of video & printer drivers and a comprehensive PPM. Anything more is overkill....,
Exactly that! Well said!

User avatar
escucha
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat 14 Mar 2009, 19:40
Location: Ainulindalë

slackot 16.11

#151 Post by escucha »

Wow... my first non grub start problems. Lightintng loading and presto! linux last kernel working.
Is there any plans for a 64bit version of this slackot?... 32bit is for obsolet pc's I know, but innovation to dual core and/or core2 64bit is a great deal... I think.
Using firefox ESR 45.5 now. thanks for the iso.

jlst

#152 Post by jlst »

Sage wrote:As for the arguments about supplementary additions to a base distro - fine, but it's a cludge. What is needed is a basic distro like MeanPup, a working browser (Opera), a secure kernel, easy availability of video & printer drivers and a comprehensive PPM. Anything more is overkill, frills, not to say developers ego trip in many of the listings, eg on DistroWatch & co. We all know where coding bloat was born. Remember K.I.S.S. All the most important scientific innovations have been reduced to a single-line equation, viz. e=mc^2, the Dirac, the Hamiltonian, etc. John Murga, Barry Kauler and a few others are fortunately endowed with such clear thought that they are able to reduce their code ad minimus, thereby achieving elegance.
And what about wireless drivers.... they tend to need some big firmware files... what if you can't use a puppy to connect to the internet?

I used to use opera. then it failed to display many pages and some weird stuff happened very often, then i switched to QtWeb, which is the web browser i use daily in a pc with 2.4ghz celeron cpu from 2003, 20gb hard drive, 512MB ram.

To me opera is below qtweb and just slightly above dillo, (which is about 500kb gzipped) when it comes to updates.

I understand why people would want something complete but with things that are mostly useless nowadays, it's because compiling and updating apps... and uploading them to the official repos has been always a dark art in the puppy land. That's why i updated manually all the apps i use in precise... and thought, this is just as small as the previous versions... why is the pet packages repo always outdated? I didn't understand.

As for me, i always knew puppy is a "handicapped" distro that i must compile my favorite apps or download them manually from somewhere else... never trusted the PPM or used it enough to trust it. That's why the forum is so useful, you have look for download links just like when you're looking for movies or music...

You see that it's impossible to reach an agreement about what is right, and when we want something small but with the right choices - this is critical.

Pelo

Thin Slacko remains the perfect one, doesn't it ?

#153 Post by Pelo »

Why so many questions. Thin Slacko remains the perfect one, doesn't it ? What was removed to make it Thin ? printing stuff, that is sure.
But browser, a real browser, is included. I think it is impossible to get a better ratio of efficiency , excepted with Dpup squeeze (and Racy 5.3), not better but similar
Ready for use Puppy Linux, of course.
Attachments
marilou.png
Loose voyage à JFK 2010
(86.62 KiB) Downloaded 551 times
Last edited by Pelo on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 03:12, edited 2 times in total.

jlst

Re: Thin Slacko remains the perfect one, doesn't it ?

#154 Post by jlst »

Pelo wrote:Why so many questions. Thin Slacko remains the perfect one, doesn't it ? What was removed to make it Thin ? printing stuff, that is sure.
But browser, a real browser, is included. I think it is impossible to get a better ratio of efficiency , excepted with Dpup squeeze (and Racy 5.3), not better but similar
Ready for use Puppy Linux, of course.
It's not retro enough, using gzip compression it will be about 120-145MB.

And firefox, seamonkey, and all mozilla apps are too heavy for a "conservative" use. I found qtweb to be the most lightweight and still usable. It may become obsolete soon though..

Pelo

QtWeb is more a browser than Dillo.

#155 Post by Pelo »

QtWeb is more a browser than Dillo. What does obsolete mean ?
My computer is now obsolete too. But enough for my needs.Pelo is obsolete too, But he is not the only one. My criteria is what i need for my pleasure with a computer.
I have a smartphone, i had a tablet, but at home thin Slacko is enough for me.
Attachments
Jeremy.jpg
Firefox nightly, Facebook , skamilinux for people entertainment, at home
(58.92 KiB) Downloaded 538 times
Last edited by Pelo on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 03:22, edited 1 time in total.

Sailor Enceladus
Posts: 1543
Joined: Mon 22 Feb 2016, 19:43

Re: ThinSlacko16-16.11

#156 Post by Sailor Enceladus »

peebee wrote:Just an experiment - probably won't be maintained

Download from SourceForge

A Woof-CE-Rationalise build using the attached config files

A cut down version of slacko-6.9.6.4 (interested to hear if anything else should have been removed). xserver_xorg_thin copied from THINSlacko-5.3.3t

Kernel in zdrv is 4.8.8 32-bit pae

No browser or firmware in the iso - an adrv with the light-48 webbrowser and an fdrv with firmware (e.g. for wifi) are in the download folder. Size still comes out at 175MB even with all these cuts....

Items removed compared to slacko-6.9.6.4 are:

Code: Select all

PKGS_SPECS_TABLE='
removed|abiword||exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|alsaequal||exe,dev
removed|aspell|aspell|exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|caps||exe,dev
removed|didiwiki||exe,dev
removed|gnome-icon-theme||exe>dev,dev,doc,nls| #too bloated for main fs so send to devx, needed to compile some progs
removed|gnumeric||exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|goffice||exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|gutenprint|gutenprint|exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|hiawatha||exe,dev
removed|homebank||exe,dev>null,doc,nls
removed|inkscapelite||exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|kernel_headers_musl||exe>dev
removed|linux-header|kernel-headers|exe>dev,dev,doc,nls
removed|mozilla-firefox|mozilla-firefox|exe,dev>null,doc>null| #must keep maintained if used, no from patches repo
removed|network_roxapp_samba||exe
removed|pequalizer||exe
removed|pmusic_PLUGIN_tray||exe
removed|samba||exe,dev,doc
removed|sfs_manager||exe
removed|sylpheed||exe,dev,doc>null,nls>null
removed|updates_mgr||exe
removed|xf86-video-fbdev||exe,dev,doc| #virtualbox with UEFI needs this
removed|x-keyboard||exe,dev
removed|xserver_xorg|xorg-server,xf86-video-*,xf86-input-*|exe,dev,doc,nls
substituted|xserver_xorg_thin|xorg-server,
    xf86-video-*,xf86-input-*,-xf86-video-dummy,-xf86-video-glint,
    -xf86-video-nsc,-xf86-video-radeonhd,-xf86-video-tga,
    -xf86-video-vga|exe,dev,doc,nls
removed|xvkbd||exe,dev
removed|YASSM||exe
'
Works ok for me with the adrv and fdrv. I think this is a nice idea as most things removed from 6.9.6.4 I don't use anyway.

Rodney Byne
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri 31 Jan 2014, 14:12

Unwanted Firefox language packs

#157 Post by Rodney Byne »

Hi to all,

After downloading and installing FirefoxESR 45.6.0
which took ages to finish & I now realise why,
I see in Add-Ons there are 29 non-English language packs.
These have been disabled, but how can I get rid of them please.

Also I can't see a delete button for Tray 1, is there one?

Thanks in advance, regards.

musher0
Posts: 14629
Joined: Mon 05 Jan 2009, 00:54
Location: Gatineau (Qc), Canada

#158 Post by musher0 »

Hello Rodney.

I believe your question will receive better visibility if you create a specific
thread for it. This thread is about the THINSlacko Puppy whereas your
question is about unwanted language packs in Firefox.

By reminding you and others of the importance of posting in the right thread,
I do not mean to downplay your problem: it's just that you'll get better
visibility for your problem by giving it its own thread -- potentially by doing
that you'll get more answers or pointers to a solution.

IHTH.
musher0
~~~~~~~~~~
"You want it darker? We kill the flame." (L. Cohen)

Rodney Byne
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri 31 Jan 2014, 14:12

#159 Post by Rodney Byne »

To Musher,

I AM talking about Firefox in Thinslacko, I tried it out for the first time today.

I'm not an expert compiler, just asking nicely for advice from a so-called friendly forum as an innocent member of the general public.

It's no wonder linux never widely caught on in Britain when people
jump down your throat for no reason.

I shan't trouble you any more. Goodbye.

Sailor Enceladus
Posts: 1543
Joined: Mon 22 Feb 2016, 19:43

#160 Post by Sailor Enceladus »

@Rodney Byne: Part of the confusion might be that you're talking about Tray 1, which I thought was the top bar introduced in Slacko 6.3.0 with ptheme? Maybe I need to try THINSlacko 5.3.3 and 5.5 again though, it has been quite a long time. :)

Post Reply