Going forward with Standard Puppy

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gnz11 · #21 Post by **gnz11** » Wed 29 Jul 2015, 06:23

what i can say from using puppy since 2008 is the 3 series to the 4 then to 5 was basicly the same. barry built it then variations would come out. he changed part of the build and filesystem with 431. thet 5 series was when woof became the framework to build puppy with. it was to use other distro binaries to build a pup with. and we got dpup/ spup/ upup. spup became slacko and upu became lucid and precise. the dpup is still about as dpup 487 and the new tries as debian dog. as barry stepped back.. on paper ;}, the woof build framework is what makes it an official pup. current releases are fairly official by the maintainer that is working them. we have a lot of options once again. one of the main things is to find what pup works for you and your hardware

#22 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Fri 19 Aug 2016, 03:06

Well I had more respect for puppy when it stood on its own 4 paws, Puppy 2&4 series, even 3 series was very close, Puppy 5 series just blew the size of distro by 30+MB, If you look at the libs you'll see the difference. Really I would be happy with a old kernel patched with ext4 and the latest sfs before they added it to the kernel, Also I would be more inclined to see Beep Media Player as the default audio player, I just don't like how Pmusic works, BMP works great and with the plugins it can play flac. Also would like to see an older version of gimp, The latest you have to export jpg images which is stupid. Also LXtask is another app I would pick. A basic gtk3 backend would also be a good idea so things like the latest Firefox would work. I would be willing to compile tons of apps if this was thing. Plus a better clipboard manager like clipit would be nice

Really why have bleeding edge kernels and toss the size of distro down the drain.

mcewanw · #23 Post by **mcewanw** » Fri 19 Aug 2016, 03:42

ttuuxxx wrote:Well I had more respect for puppy when it stood on its own 4 paws, Puppy 2&4 series, even 3 series was very close, Puppy 5 series just blew the size of distro by 30+MB, If you look at the libs you'll see the difference. Really I would be happy with a old kernel patched with ext4 and the latest sfs before they added it to the kernel, Also I would be more inclined to see Beep Media Player as the default audio player, I just don't like how Pmusic works, BMP works great and with the plugins it can play flac. Also would like to see an older version of gimp, The latest you have to export jpg images which is stupid. Also LXtask is another app I would pick. A basic gtk3 backend would also be a good idea so things like the latest Firefox would work. I would be willing to compile tons of apps if this was thing. Plus a better clipboard manager like clipit would be nice :) Really why have bleeding edge kernels and toss the size of distro down the drain.

Actually, I feel the same. Puppy has moved towards being a medium-sized distribution, which simply leans on the back of the bigger distributions. DebianDog fulfills that slot of medium-sized bigger distribution compatible IMO - after all it provided real apt compatibility. I guess it all boils down to what Puppy is(?), why do we like it, despite (or because of) its less than fantastic package manager. There are indeed many small but excellent core apps out there, like Lxtask though there is no doubt browser bloat has become a major issue in trying to build a tiny yet full-featured-feeling Linux distribution. Puppy is still great in most ways though - I really do blame DebianDog and similar for illustrating the weaknesses of current Puppies though. Maybe it is just nostalgia for these old 2.x and 4.x puppies, which were the best in my opinion - or maybe such ultra-fast and slim puppies could indeed be kept alive, but does the public have any need for such resource friendly Pups nowadays I wonder - cpus so fast nowadays and RAM a plenty even in 9 year old machines...

It does seem painful that we can no longer hardly run a Linux distribution in less than 256MB RAM when once you could run it in less than 16...

I've heard that Puppy 'passengers' couldn't care less about frugal Pup size as long as it has all the apps they want to run. Anything else being considered just play OS for students of computing and programming...(?)

Actually, the way DebianDog is being constructed (handcrafted in many ways) is more like old Puppy building albeit with a solid dpkg database core. Saintless vanishing didn't help that project though and I sometimes wonder if it will still survive longterm (or if saintless himself will indeed come up with some new alternative - though I then wonder how that could really survive without a forum like this one).

William

Sailor Enceladus · #24 Post by **Sailor Enceladus** » Fri 19 Aug 2016, 07:14

ttuuxxx wrote:Well I had more respect for puppy when it stood on its own 4 paws, Puppy 2&4 series, even 3 series was very close, Puppy 5 series just blew the size of distro by 30+MB, If you look at the libs you'll see the difference. Really I would be happy with a old kernel patched with ext4 and the latest sfs before they added it to the kernel, Also I would be more inclined to see Beep Media Player as the default audio player, I just don't like how Pmusic works, BMP works great and with the plugins it can play flac. Also would like to see an older version of gimp, The latest you have to export jpg images which is stupid. Also LXtask is another app I would pick. A basic gtk3 backend would also be a good idea so things like the latest Firefox would work. I would be willing to compile tons of apps if this was thing. Plus a better clipboard manager like clipit would be nice Really why have bleeding edge kernels and toss the size of distro down the drain.

Sounds like you have enough ideas and strong opinions to create your own (public?) puppy to fit. Have you tried this before?

#25 Post by **ttuuxxx** » Fri 19 Aug 2016, 09:52

Sailor Enceladus wrote: Sounds like you have enough ideas and strong opinions to create your own (public?) puppy to fit. Have you tried this before?

Yes in the past I've done tons of puppy versions, Probably more puplets than anyone on here. Plus things like 2.14X and woof, plus lots of custom versions and helped build 2 community versions, I can tell your new here, Puppy is addictive. I just don't have the free time like I used to. Willing to help if someone wants to headup something.

s243a · #26 Post by **s243a** » Fri 19 Aug 2016, 13:51

I've glanced at the Woof CE I didn't find a common truk of scripts for linux. It instead to contain the tools for building puppylinux. My guess is that this is because puppylinux is assembled from a number of packages which are maintained separately. This probably makes development easier since different people can focus on the different components.

However, this makes it harder for people to understand how the system of a whole works if they aren't already immersed in the code. Or said another way it creates a steeper learning curve.

As a consequence, I simply copied some of the script files to a directory and uploaded them to githup:
https://github.com/s243a/test/tree/mast ... /file/root

along with some simplemind mindmaps to help me understand what files there are and what they do. This isn't directly for development. It is more of a documentation project.

Currently, I copied the scripts from tahrup but I suspect that there is a lot of commonality between the main versions of puppylinux.

I only copied a few via drag and drop although a script could be written to automate this and assemble a larger assembly of scripts into github.

NeroVance · #27 Post by **NeroVance** » Sat 11 Feb 2017, 19:25

To be honest, I am thinking of getting back in the game, I do wonder if anyone has decided upon a Community Edition for Puppy 6?

I'll probably begin work myself on a Standard Puplet, I know a lot of people suggested something Ubuntu-based, but I might try something Arch Linux based since I've been using that on my new (ish) Thinkpad x130e, and it works rather well.

I'll probably begin with a clean VM on my desktop to build the first Woof images, then probably begin cutting the fat and looking at what would be good to possibly add as well, and what could use replacement. Because to be honest, I do kinda miss the days in which you had an integrated Internet Suite bundled in.

Sailor Enceladus · #28 Post by **Sailor Enceladus** » Sat 11 Feb 2017, 20:30

NeroVance wrote:To be honest, I am thinking of getting back in the game, I do wonder if anyone has decided upon a Community Edition for Puppy 6?

Slacko and Tahrpup made it through to the Puppy 6 stage, and there are some betas like Devuan Jessie puppies. Now we are up to "7 beta" with Slacko (Slackware 14.2) and Xenialpup (Ubuntu 16.04). Making a puppy with woof-CE is much faster and more automated than when I tried to build one during the early 6.0 phase. Some projects still remaster 5 and 4 puppies too.

p310don · #29 Post by **p310don** » Sat 11 Feb 2017, 23:13

Why base it on anything else?

Why not base a Puppy on Puppy. Build our own pets, or better yet SFSes. I believe an SFS is easier to update (an issue lots of people have) programs.

NeroVance · #30 Post by **NeroVance** » Sun 12 Feb 2017, 02:58

p310don wrote:Why base it on anything else?

Why not base a Puppy on Puppy. Build our own pets, or better yet SFSes. I believe an SFS is easier to update (an issue lots of people have) programs.

I hear you on that, but at the same time, I feel like Arch works very well for what we need, at least as an initial starting point, from which we can perhaps start building from.

Besides, where would a new Puppy start if we used Pure Puppy, what Kernel and software would we use, how far would it be behind, how much would need to be done to make it work

I'll be honest, I could try it as a side project, but I'll be honest, it would be a crapshoot for my to try

But I'll see how things go. Really what I want to see is a Puppy that finally brings back Tcl/Tk and Gnocl to the forefront and makes it a first-class language like it was back in the day. I'll probably give it a bit of a retro look like an older icon theme, and a tasteful but retro gtk theme. Probably going to avoid anything with GTK3 like the plague for now. Want to kinda make an ISO that is less than 128MB. You know, bring back some of the older puppy traditions and help keep them alive

s243a · #31 Post by **s243a** » Wed 15 Feb 2017, 06:56

NeroVance wrote:
p310don wrote:Why base it on anything else?

Why not base a Puppy on Puppy. Build our own pets, or better yet SFSes. I believe an SFS is easier to update (an issue lots of people have) programs.
I hear you on that, but at the same time, I feel like Arch works very well for what we need, at least as an initial starting point, from which we can perhaps start building from.

Besides, where would a new Puppy start if we used Pure Puppy, what Kernel and software would we use, how far would it be behind, how much would need to be done to make it work

I'll be honest, I could try it as a side project, but I'll be honest, it would be a crapshoot for my to try

But I'll see how things go. Really what I want to see is a Puppy that finally brings back Tcl/Tk and Gnocl to the forefront and makes it a first-class language like it was back in the day. I'll probably give it a bit of a retro look like an older icon theme, and a tasteful but retro gtk theme. Probably going to avoid anything with GTK3 like the plague for now. Want to kinda make an ISO that is less than 128MB. You know, bring back some of the older puppy traditions and help keep them alive

If you do an arch version of puppylinux will it have antlr2?

It's a dependency of sqlitebrowser. Antlr2 looked too complicated for me to want to compile under fatdog64. Antlr2 is included with archlinux.

For fatdog64 I used squlitestudio instead of squlitebrower. That said Antlr2 looks like a cool tool even though it is likely well beyond my programming ability.

I need an SQLite tool to try and understand the stucture of the FMS (Freenet messaging system) database. FMS is a usenet like application for freenet. For context I mirror the discussion about me trying to install sqlitebrowser at the following link:
http://www.pearltrees.com/s243a/antlr2- ... m196402931

foxpup · #32 Post by **foxpup** » Wed 15 Feb 2017, 08:31

My first thought was Tahr. It even runs, with some issues, on my very old machine.

But I really like WARY best.
It is pure puppy and still it can handle packages of other distributions.
It runs very well on old machines. It is often on old machines, crashing with windows, that people get to know Puppy.
It is just a pitty the libs are getting old.

Classic Puppy 214X is still very nice too.

Lassar · #33 Post by **Lassar** » Sun 21 May 2017, 22:57

I would say tahrpup64 6.05, but it's getting a bit old.

I think that I read, that Ubuntu 14.04 tahr packages are stating to disappeared from launchpad.

Zenialpup64 should be the standard, even tho it's still in the beta stage.

rufwoof · #34 Post by **rufwoof** » Mon 22 May 2017, 02:19

NeroVance wrote:I do think JWM should stay, it's tradition, maybe even see if we could have an option to use the old non-rounded corners version.

That's just part of <WindowsStyle> section

<Corner>4</Corner>

tag where 0 is square, 5 most rounded

Debian + xorg + jwm + pcmanfm are a great combination IMO. jwm is also still being maintained/developed.

I'm running Debian Standard (command line only), with xorg, jwm and pcmanfm file manager installed on top of that for the gui/desktop. A simple single .jwmrc file that I manually tweak as desired. pcmanfm --desktop .... to provide the desktop (icons). I also use pcmanfm as the 'menu' i.e. when you click menu it opens up pcmanfm menu://applications that shows a list of all the menu options (Accessories, System ... etc.) along with a bookmark to /usr/share/applications so all programs (.desktop files) are readily accessible via a single secondary click.

Nice and simple ... really quick, and based on Debian stable so security patches (and their extensive repository of programs) are readily available.

I'm even using the .jwmrc file as the startup control, so it starts pulseaudio, the desktop (pcmanfm --desktop), libre tray launcher, calendar (orage) ...etc.

<StartupCommand>pulseaudio --start</StartupCommand>
<StartupCommand>pcmanfm --desktop</StartupCommand>
<StartupCommand>libreoffice --quickstart --nologo --nodefault</StartupCommand>
<StartupCommand>orage</StartupCommand>

Other than that I've also added in lxappearance (so I can select gtk theme etc.) which, other than pcmanfm's configuration options, pretty much enables the entire desktop style/layout to be configured.

At the other end of the panel to the menu I have a shutdown type button, that includes a edit .jwmrc option for convenience

Lassar · #35 Post by **Lassar** » Mon 22 May 2017, 22:56

I'll add one more thing to the standard.

I think puppy linux should look good out of the box.

That means using icewm instead of jwm.

Something like Win Puppy.

hamoudoudou · #36 Post by **hamoudoudou** » Wed 20 Jun 2018, 05:11

why do you want to create standard Puppies when the only pleasure for devs is to create different ones.. i don't know how many Linux they are, but fashion i to puppify all of them..
When devs for apps are moved to phones and tablets, better it would be to wonder future of 32 bits apps.. I know devs only develop, they don't use apps. What they call development is just installing applications, as you will install on a camera different lens, just you have to create the seal kit.
Dogs are specialists. But what you can do with your computer has not changed..Bluetooth for instance remains unavailable on most Puppies.. DOS-emulation on the contrary is ok. To play vintage games, without interest.
You still need to use 32 bits apps with your 64 bits OS, Simply because 64 bits not yet developped.

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

(old)Puppy Linux Discussion Forum

Going forward with Standard Puppy

Which Puppy or Puplet would you suggest as a standard?

mainline pups

why do you want to create standard Puppies